Sad to watch my friends sink to such depths of despair ...

[relayerbob]

Last edited Tue Mar 10, 2020, 06:45 PM - Edit history (1)

I have many friends who are Sanders supporters, and I won't argue or even engage with them on the topic, because some (not all) are so wrapped up in the personality cult aspects of the "Revolution". Many seem to have completely lost their bearings, and are spewing out GOP talking points and videos and links to Russian articles, etc. and just generally sounding like the Trumpanzees they claim to despise. It's so sad. I can't say anything to them, as that won't accomplish anything but being attacked or being disowned.

They can't seem to understand the difference between allies with different ways of approaching the problem and mortal enemies. They act like no one has ever lost an election before. I didn't act like that when Liz dropped out, and I haven't seen other friends and acquaintances who supported Buttegieg and Klobuchar or Warren act like that.

They really can't see that one of the biggest problems facing Sanders' attempts are based on Sanders' and their own actions. They don't get that they are the ones driving everyone away from their rigid positions. For many, especially Warren supporters, it's not the policies, nor the messages, but the messenger that we oppose. As a long time leader of teams and organizations large and small, I could go on at some length about how Sanders approach to leadership can never work, and how his selection of people around him demonstrates poor judgement, and how most people don't want a "revolution", we want progress and healing. But they don't listen, no matter how carefully phrased.

It will take a team of hard-working, dedicated and intelligent people from all walks of life to solve these issues, and alienating everyone, right to the edge (and sometimes over) of sexist, age-ist and racist remarks, by people who I know are not normally like that, won't accomplish that. The one-person-knows-all approach is failing us right before our eyes in DC, and they seem bent on replacing that with their form, regardless of the wishes of the majority of the people in the party and in the country. "Democracy? Vote? We don't need that, you all are too stupid to know what's good for you!" No matter how they phrase it, that's what they are saying, and it's infuriating. But I bite my tongue and wait for the results of the elections.

I'll be so glad when this primary is over.

[Turbineguy]

1. It's a problem revolutionaries have had historically

The belief that their revolution is so wonderful that everybody needs it.

[Steven Maurer]

55. Much worse is their equating skepticism to evil

Any pointing out of deficiencies in their vision (either the goal or the means by which is will supposedly be achieved) cannot be real. No, it has to be an attack by nefarious villains, who must be defeated at any cost.

This black and white thinking is why revolutions so often lead to violence.

[relayerbob]

58. SAdly, I've been in social media since about 1982

YEs, it existed, lol. In nearly every group I've been in, and that numbers in the high hundred by now, there has been a progression from friendly to polarized and self-destructed. Someone should do a study on that behavior

[gibraltar72]

2. Bernie cooked it for me

when he renegged on producing his medical records after stating he would. Keeping promises is a good thing breaking them not so much.

[Pacifist Patriot]

35. I voted for him in the 2016 primary.

Now I'm trying to remember why.

[Docreed2003]

51. Right there with you

[relayerbob]

60. Same

[brush]

41. "I have news for the Democratic establisment and the Republican establisment...

You can't stop us." Sanders actually made that obnoxious, full-of-himself comment after his wins in the early, unrepresentative contests—with 47 states and two territories still to vote.

That encapsulated his whole personna to me. I mean who says that stuff out loud?

[NYMinute]

48. "Only I can solve your problems. Everyone else is stupid"

[brush]

49. Yep, yin and yang.

[wyldwolf]

3. same here

[Botany]

4. Take heart after today Bernie will be done for

Now he will have money to continue his campaign but he will have no chance at
the nomination.

[relayerbob]

12. Sadly, unless he stops, the craziness is likely to get worse

AS I said elsewhere, it's amazing how easily people are radicalized over the internet.

A good friend of mine, a business owner and not exactly poor, has gone all-in and while more reasonable than most, seems more like he's in the midst of a mid-life crisis than anything else (so bad, his wife divorced him not long ago). Another, a history professor, who teaches black history of all things, seems beside herself that blacks didn't all jump for Sanders. She tries really hard to pick her words carefully, but one can read the message loud and clear. It's very strange, but makes me understand how groups like ISIS can grab up disaffected western kids so easily and talk them into atrocities.

[Botany]

15. If Sanders loses Michigan, Mississippi, and Missouri today he is toast

Good chance he will lose Washington too.

[Wounded Bear]

37. Last cycle, Bernie won the caucuses and got the delegates...

but he lost the primary. Yes we did vote in a primary that Hillary won. We eliminated the caucuses, thankfully.

I suspect Biden will get the lions share of the delegates from Washington.

[frazzled]

5. Character and temperament always trump (excuse the expression) specific policy

in the minds of voters. For several reasons.

For one, policy prescriptions touted by candidates never materialize (if they materialize at all) in the same form once a candidate is elected; people are looking for general outlooks and alignments on issues rather than specific proposals, which they mostly don't read or understand anyway.

Second, we've seen what poor character in the White House actually looks like now. Hillary Clinton warned that Trump was "temperamentally unfit" for office in 2016, but few believed or cared. Now we do.

Finally, leaders can't lead if they don't have the proper character and temperament. We're seeing it play out in the Sanders campaign right now. (Actually, saw it in 2016, but few believed it or cared.)

Character has always been at the top of my list for candidate assessment. Today, it is more critical than ever.

[genxlib]

6. I had to crash a Facebook thread the other day

One of my Sanders supporting friends posted a meme about how the media overhyping the corona virus must be hiding some shenanigans in the primary.

I usually try to stay out of it but I couldn't stand by and let that bullshit stand. It was undermining both the legitimacy of the election AND the importance of the CV virus.

I told her to get a grip because a pandemic that could kill millions might actually be newsworthy.

[wyldwolf]

9. Oh, sure. I've seen the same sentiment.

Joe Biden, who "obviously has dementia" can nevertheless orchestrate this corona epidemic to suppress primary votes.

[BidenBacker]

16. That's our Joe

A brilliant idiot.

[Baitball Blogger]

7. From my observation, you both are hitting each other's hot buttons.

I don't consider myself a Bernie groupie, but I do believe that he's closer to Elizabeth Warren's overall platform. It might not require a revolution, but we do need dynamic change.

But I'm not here to convert anyone, but to make this important point: We all have hot buttons. Mine is the way Biden supporters claim that a win for Biden means that the movement is toward moderation and away from a revolution. I'm here to say, no it's not. A win for Biden means that we all want to beat Trump. Any other interpretation is counter-productive to our goal for unity.

[relayerbob]

10. I actually don't post anything negative about other candidates

And have only posted positive things about Liz, while she was running. I agree massive change is required. A win for either candidate means we want to beat Trump.

It just distresses me that these folks can't separate themselves from the noise.

I feel much safer talking here, as almost everyone is of fair mind. I get being passionate, but there is a line in the sand, beyond which is, frankly, craziness. It's amazing how easily radicalized people are over the internet

[TwilightZone]

33. "I feel much safer talking here"

The moderation system, for all the flak that it gets, does a solid job of keeping the worst of it at bay, in my opinion.

Some would prefer a free-for-all and claim the system turns DU into an echo chamber, but I appreciate a place that is different from social media, different from the comments sections of newspapers and websites, and generally much more tolerable than just about anywhere else. The worst of the nuttiness accomplishes nothing and even if the system is sometimes a bit overzealous, it still allows for an exchange of ideas without the inevitable downward spiral into absurdity that every other site seems to produce.

[relayerbob]

63. I absolutely agree

I really wish more social media used some sort of flag/voting system like exists here to reduce the worst of the crap

[brush]

44. Yes, let's keep it simple. We should all want to beat Trump. Period.

[Happy Hoosier]

8. When Sanders announced, I knew all this would happen. AGAIN.

Folks told me I was wrong. Surely people learned their lesson in 2016.

NOPE.

I just hope that Sanders is crushed tonight and we can put this crap behind us as quickly as possible.

[Cha]

21. +1!!!

[Hav]

11. You perfectly described why BS failed to persuade a majority

Those traits of the BS followers you described aren't those of progressives. It's literally in the name, progressives aim for progress in various fields for the sake of improving the conditions of the people. They don't throw away any kind of improvement if they didn't get exactly what they wanted. They are open to the arguments of others and willing to accept better solutions. None of that describes BS.

There was another thread here about an article by a BS follower and it was so incredibly bitter and ugly, lashing out at all the Dems. And something like that is published on the eve of an important election day. Irrational behavior, the need to vent your frustration and engage in vindictiveness take priority instead of trying to persuade new voters.

[relayerbob]

14. I'm glad I missed that thread

[mercuryblues]

13. My Grandma used to say

You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.

[LymphocyteLover]

17. This is so true. I have many friends on FB like this.

They tend to be as obnoxious and willfully blind as Trump supporters. So annoying and counterproductive.

[Rebl2]

18. What

concerns me is Sanders backers will stay home in November if he is not the nominee or they vote for Trump. No matter what I will vote for the Democratic nominee.

[relayerbob]

25. I think the vast majority will get over it by then

and will vote. Some won't. A few never actually vote, nor intended to, but like stirring shit. (Very low percentage, but these are likely the ones causing the most trouble for everyone)

I believe there are alot of rational, decent people out there who don't give a rat's ass about what label on them, as long as the guy is also a rational, decent guy. I wish Nixon hadn't soured the phrase "Silent Majority", but the reality ism all the militants online (and that includes all of us, btw), constitutes a fraction of the real voting population.

[Rebl2]

59. I do hope so

[ramen]

42. I thimk that is really, really unlikely.

I'll be there and those of my friends who also support Sanders would not dream of doing anything other than enthusiastically supporting the nominee, regardless of whether it is Biden or not. Stakes are way, way, way too high. I've voted for Democrats at every level 100% of the votes I have ever cast and will not be discontinuing that trend.

Vote blue, folks

[Turin_C3PO]

46. That's my experience

with Sanders voters also. I think the percentage who didn’t vote for Clinton will be lower this time with Biden. People now know how much of a danger Trump is.

[ehrnst]

19. Thank you so much for this post.

Two of my closest friends are Sanders supporters - we are fellow activists and progressives. Interestingly, they were both with me on supporting Warren, but will not support Biden.

We have agreed not to talk politics until the primary is over now Liz dropped out.

Fortunately they are of the mind that reasonable people can disagree.

Other friends of mine, not so much.

[DinahMoeHum]

20. I am curious: do any of these "friends". . .

1) actually work in the Democratic Party (on a local level) ???
2) do anything beyond their "political hobbyism" as author/professor Eitan Hersh would say
in his book Politics Is For Power ???

Odds are, they don't. Little wonder people won't vote for their candidate.

Their approach to politics and elections is dumping a truckload of sugar in the ocean and expecting syrup in return.

They'd do a lot better by sweetening the cup in their own communities first. If they really want to "take over" the Democratic Party, they might start by actually being IN the Democratic Party on a local level, and become district leaders/precinct captains.

[relayerbob]

24. Answers

1 - Yes, one ran for office in SoCal and lost, but inspired and helped 4 others of his group get elected. He was much older, and I suspect a (ironically) victim of "OK, Boomer-ism". And others are working for their campaigns in various capacities. One of whom was a delegate for HRC at the last convention. It should be noted, he didn't go all negative, he took it in stride and starting working on 2018. The Sanders friends are the ones having the hardest time dealing with all this, even though the majority have had their first choice knocked out.

2 - As I note above, several do. I've met several in our community who have put on events, and/or are local officials. But, obviously not all choose to get involved, and many just like to throw shit out there. I have not done enough this campaign beyond spending way more than I ever have on campaigns, but worked to help Obama win in Virginia in 2008. I now live in a liberal enclave in Atlanta

And many are not "friends", these are people, real friends, in cases, I've known for years, not just online, and are otherwise good people. When all the BS is over, they will likely resume being normal ... after a while.

But beyond that, I utterly agree with you. They need to be learning how to form teams, how to communicate effectively, and how to negotiate. All those things Sanders is poor at. While still pretty erratic at times, AOC seems to be cut from a better cloth, I hope as she matures into office, others follow her lead.

[mountain grammy]

22. Republicans stay on message

Never changing course except to move further right, never compromising their values no matter how twisted. We can’t stay united on the basic issue of healthcare for all Americans. Seems that should be a winner.. gotta wonder why we’ve lost on it..

[calimary]

23. No kidding!

[yaesu]

26. When I pick a primary candidate, which I have already voted for, I do so because they best match

my political beliefs & what I think is best for the country. I choose them, I don't fall in love with them, plan to marry them, don't think they are God or perfect. There seems to be a lot of supporters of both candidates who are rabid about their pick or no one else. I can't get that excited about it & won't blame communists, or the DNC or anyone else if my pick doesn't win. It is what is is, lets not get all up in peoples faces over it.

[relayerbob]

27. Exactly

I respect anyone for picking whoever they like on his or her merits. But trying to make one's own candidate look better by making others look bad, doesn't work for me, no matter who does it. Note I was for Liz, but haven't started trashing all my FB friends because she withdrew.

[yaesu]

28. I like Liz & hope she gets the VP pick, that would be awesome. nt

[relayerbob]

29. True, but unlikely

Personally, I'd prefer Senate Majority Leader, or Commerce, so she can kick some ass. lol

Her takedown of Bloomberg was classic.

[Codeine]

62. Exactly.

My first choice almost never wins, and I’ve been voting since the 80s. I just switch to the next closest candidate who combines my political preference with some level of demonstrated competence and move on.

[docgee]

30. JFC dude, it's not like they're trump voters.

But I'll add I agree with most of what you said.

[relayerbob]

32. Nope, they are not

That's why it's hard to watch. Not really fun to see teammates and allies bang their against the wall

[madamesilverspurs]

31. I quit engaging on social media.

Instead, when they post against Biden, I post this in response:

[emmaverybo]

54. Excellent.

[spicysista]

34. I'm sorry about your friends.

The real ones will come around sooner or later. Don't waste time trying to convince the true believers. Instead, focus on all the good you can do in the meantime. Be there for your true friends if and when you can. The rest will sort itself.

[relayerbob]

38. Thanks

Nah, they'll either come around or they won't

[Sucha NastyWoman]

36. The fat lady is gonna sing tonight

After tonight it will be really obvious that Biden will be our nominee.

I can’t wait because then people here will quit wringing their hands about Bernie and his people. All you guys are doing is that your going to make them so mad they won’t vote at all or worse. It’s not just the Bernie Bro’s that are stirring up resentment.

The Russians/ Republicans don’t even need bots. We’re doing it to ourselves.

[Lulu KC]

39. I will be glad, too

except that this will pale in comparison to what Trump's puppeteers will be engineering from the wings.

[relayerbob]

40. Oh, I sadly know

[warmfeet]

43. Vote for the candidate you like most in the primary.

Vote for the candidate most likely to defeat the opposition in the general. The best candidate remaining is Joe Biden - he will kick the orange snot-rag from here until tomorrow. If we can't come together to vote out the worst president in the history of this country, we really don't deserve the opportunity we have been given. Get out the vote, please do not squander this opportunity, we may not get another.

[honest.abe]

45. This doesnt surprise me.

Just 3 weeks ago Sanders was flying high and Biden was nearly left for dead. The turnaround has been so extreme and rapid that Im sure its difficult for many Sanders supporters to deal with it. Many probably were convinced Sanders was going to win this... now in just a couple of weeks that has all completely flipped.

[Turin_C3PO]

47. I think

most of the hurt feelings will pass by the time of the election. That’s just my gut feeling.

[NYMinute]

52. It depends upon Sen. Sanders

If he concedes and calls for unity, it will be over. If he goes into rage and says he will fight till the end, we'll have issues.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

66. They didn't get over it last time

A lot of them didn’t. Maybe they felt betrayed by other Democrats acting like the enemy.

[relayerbob]

57. Yes, I heard so much of that

"The Voice of the People", and it turned out quite different than they expected it would be

[NYMinute]

50. Great OP ... bravo!

[relayerbob]

56. TY

[Ferrets are Cool]

53. +1

[Mister Ed]

61. He has caused a rift in my family, something akin to the one caused by Trump.

My heart aches.

[relayerbob]

65. Now that would suck

We're all supposed to be on the same team

[marlakay]

64. I have a lot of Bernie friends too

Especially since I worked on his campaign last time. This time Warren. I pretty much don’t post on things in FB unless it’s neutral like about Trump.

In between campaigning these are really cool people that care about the environment and want to help people.