I think I understand the Bernie bro thing now

[TalenaGor]

Let me start off by saying I was all-in for Bernie in 2016. I caucused for him here in Washington State. And although I was seriously disappointed when he didn't get the nomination there was absolutely no question that I would be voting blue.

Last night I was playing my video game like I do, talking with my friends on discord like I do, because I'm a nerd LOL..
And this guy that I don't know too well, apparently intoxicated, was going on about how Warren stabbed Bernie in the back and she stole all his policies and then wouldn't back them up or some BS like that.... We bantered back and forth....but then he started getting really pissed off and saying things like 'Rome needs to burn and then be built back up' (to which I said 'okay Steve Bannon') and Bernie would have won if Hillary wasn't such a war hawk..... And Biden is blah blah blah..... But he professed himself to be a progressive....But the entire conversation he's bashing the Democrats left and right.... Says absolutely nothing bad about Trump or Republicans.....

So I started pressing him on platform and not the person..... And I asked him if Bernie doesn't get the nomination would he vote for the nominee and he said no!! He said he would vote for Trump or maybe just sit it out!! Of course I nearly shit myself.... So at this point I'm pissed off and I said I support the platform no matter who the nominee is...He says 'I Don't!'

So then I asked him who he voted for in 2016.... He said Trump because Hillary blah blah blah!!! So I told him he's not a progressive at all he's a trump chump and a shit disturber... Then I hung up on his ass lol

So this is the fundamental problem I have with Bernie..... It's not actually him..... But many of the people who support him are actually Trump refugees...... They are just extremists... They just want to see the whole ship sink so to speak.....

This is exactly why I couldn't support Bernie this time.... Because I don't want people like that guy on my side.....

[frazzled]

1. Well, he really did burn it all down

Voting for Trump in 2016 was part of a strategy. Burn the house down. And that's sure been helpful. We've got children in cages, extreme right-wingers on the Supreme Court, no allies (except a few tin-pan dictators), and failed coronavirus strategy. To name just a few.

These people are crazy, and belong together with the Trump camp.

[samnsara]

2. this is what i have always professed about the bros.... when they get done tearing down the...

..Dems and after they leave a bernie rally they simply put on their MAGA hats and carry on.

[Vivienne235729]

42. +10000 EXACTLY!!

[dalton99a]

3. It's a common attitude among the bros

[thesquanderer]

4. re: "why I couldn't support Bernie this time...I don't want people like that guy on my side"

I don't care who's on my side. I'll take every vote I can get.

[TwilightZone]

25. That's kind of the point. They're not votes we're going to get.

A subset of Sanders supporters was never going to accept anyone other than Sanders in the top spot, and they were always likely going to stay home or whatever in November.

Some of them, like Sanders supporters' local favorite Krystal Ball, have been quite open about it.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/13/democrats-confront-a-never-biden-contingent-127438

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/13/bernie-sanders-fans-joe-biden-democratic-candidate

[Claustrum]

5. these "Bernie Bros" are real

For every 10 "Bernie bros"'s comment, while I think there are definitely russian trolls and republican pretenders, there are at least 1 or 2 that are real life people. When I refer to "Bernie Bros", I don't mean every single Bernie supporters, it is the "Bernie or Buster" or "Never Biden" people.

And I don't blame Bernie for "Bernie Bros" because I know he can't control Russian trolls and republican pretenders online. What I blame Bernie for is continuing to hire "Bernie Bros" as his campaign manager and surrogates and peddle right wing attacks. They just amplify the message to their supporters.

[wryter2000]

15. Bingo

Aside from saying, "I disavow that," he doesn't do anything, and nothing changes.

[empedocles]

6. The political extremes in the US tend to be angry. Oft' very angry. BS and trump get a

surprising amount of small donor dollars.

The extremes also may tend toward hate - oft' muted, as in some folk I know personally. I've heard, 'it all needs to burn down.'

[question everything]

7. This is why revolutions have been bloody

The end justifies the means. Accept collateral damage. Keep your eyes on the prize, etc.

Except, we are still a democracy and most of us do not want a revolution. Most do not hate the rich; they want to be rich.

During the great recession some journalist went to talk the "man in the street" and asked about how best to cut the pie. And a young woman going to a movie with her friends laughed and said: I don't want to cut the pie; I want all of it.

This is where Sanders, if he is honest enough, should come out and exhort his supporters to go out and vote for Biden. Specifically condemn the ones who would stay home or vote for Trump.

[Happy Hoosier]

8. Bernie didn't invent them, but...

Last edited Fri Mar 13, 2020, 12:43 PM - Edit history (1)

He doesn't do nearly enough to shut their asses down, IMHO.

Remember: He blew off Liz Fucking Warren when she had the temerity to bring it up to him. He DOES. NOT. CARE.

[dalton99a]

9. The narcissism is extraordinary.

It is all about him, and the "movement" is all about leader worship

[relayerbob]

11. Oh, on TV, he said he was appalled by what he saw

.... after getting his ass handed to him and needed to beg Warren to join with him. She's way smarter than that

[PatSeg]

10. "They are just extremists"

That has been my experience with many of them. They don't necessarily care all that much about the issues, they need to be against something. Once they get caught up in their causes, they put their blinders on. It seems to be some kind of adrenaline high for them. If they weren't involved in a political campaign, it probably would be something else.

[Galraedia]

12. They're fauxgressives. I've noticed the same thing on Youtube

I've noticed the same thing on Youtube on the comment section of the extremely pro-Bernie The Young Turks channel. They say that if they can't have Bernie that they'll vote for Trump. Which seems pretty odd when you think about it as both Bernie and Trump are far part from each other on the political spectrum. However, their logic seems to be that if they destroy the democratic party it will make it easier for them to rebuild it in their image.

[NBachers]

32. If you see political affiliation as linear, they're far away. If it's 360, they're right next

to each other.

[Clash City Rocker]

33. It's not a straight line, it's a circle

Go far enough to the left and it looks just like the far right.

[hangaleft]

47. As someone on the far left I take umbrage to your comment

For starters, I would never vote for Trump. I have never voted for a Republican in my life and I never will. I have nothing but disdain for the right, whether right leaning or right in the extreme.

I abhor authoritarianism, whether on the left or the right. To flat out equate the far left with the far right is just flat out wrong and insulting.

PREFERRED CANDIDATE — ELIZABETH WARREN

P.S. It is a straight line!

[Clash City Rocker]

48. Look up Lyndon LaRouche if you want to know what I'm talking about

There’s an extreme far-left ideology held by some Americans that isn’t much different from Trump. I’m not saying you ascribe to it, I’m sure you don’t. I’m just saying it exists.

[hangaleft]

49. Picking out some crackpot and equating him with those who hold far left beliefs is insulting

And ignorant.

If you’re a moderate, you’re closer to Trump than I am. I couldn’t be further from Trumpism.

[MRDAWG]

13. These people listen to Repub talk radio and want to .............

burn down our government.

[TomCADem]

14. This Is Why Bernie Is Ultimately Toxic

His whole campaign is built around fostering resentment of Democrats, which makes no sense when Republicans control the Senate, White House and Courts. So, of course, if Bernie does not win, some may not vote for Democrats.

Of course, this is what ultimately repeals a lot of Democrats. Trashing Democrats will ultimately alienate the party he Hope's to lead.

This is why I think Bernie is used as a tool by Republicans and Russians. His attacks on Democrats are easy to exploit to generate divisiveness.

[William769]

16. ...

[calimary]

19. And he's let all this go to his head.

What really clarified it for me was a moment in 2016 when he got off that campaign plane in the middle of the night and a small enthusiastic crowd of mostly young people met him on the tarmac. He said “I feel like a rock star.”

So a bent-over little old man whose next age milestone will be 80, who’s spent a lifetime kvetching and scolding and complaining from the sidelines gets a drive-by of the Fountain of Youth. And sudden tons of attention and mass-adulation. For the first time in his life. The spotlight! More like a whole big bunch of ‘em! And all the cameras and microphones - FINALLY “coming to their senses” and seeking HIM out, at long last! And it goes straight to his head.

I think it’s his artificially-inflated ego we’re seeing and hearing, that’s making all the noise. It’s a drug. And he got addicted to it back in 2015 and 16. And he’s back for another fix this year. And if he lives, he’ll probably want more in 2024 which will lead him to try to primary the Dem in the White House (presumably Biden) or yet another run if we’re unfortunate enough to have trump cheat his way back in.

[betsuni]

31. +1

[LymphocyteLover]

20. exactly-- I do hope Bernie changes his tune this time

and does everything possible to squelch crap about the DNC and rigging this time. This stakes are too high to be divided over that nonsense.

[Cozmo]

17. HELLO!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that this vindictive "bernie bros" attitude is what brought us down in the last presidential election. Somehow these "holier than thou idiots" are hellbent on displaying their discontent just like the deplorables. bernie does absolutely nothing to dissuade this miserable cult and his ego is going to sink us once again. No, bernie won't be elected, but if we allow him to continue to divide our party, we'll have to deal with the other horse's ass. This is serious stuff and unfortunately we can't count on the masses to police themselves, so WTF, I give up!

[mountain grammy]

18. Well that's one guy

So very scientific.

[TwilightZone]

23. Not just one guy.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/13/democrats-confront-a-never-biden-contingent-127438

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/13/bernie-sanders-fans-joe-biden-democratic-candidate

[questionseverything]

39. as democrats i didnt think we should "generalize"

but if it's being mean to Bernie supporters it seems to be ok here ?

[kcr]

45. Hardly

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

In several key states — Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan — the number of Sanders to Trump defectors were greater than Trump’s margin of victory, according to new numbers released Wednesday by UMass professor Brian Schaffner.

[ancianita]

21. This is a similar thing I've seen, but I don't think they're the majority, and it's not about Bernie

welcoming them. It's about them using him as a pretext for shutting down the Democratic Party in general.

Bernie would not approve. So this doesn't reflect on him. He can only be so careful.

He's not alone. And he's not the first. Many big tent candidates from our party in the past have been used as 'marks' by bad faith players and impatient, hyperprecious "burn it down" snots.

You've done the right thing. Tell these stupids to go suck it.

[NY06DemSoc]

22. Logic?

It's not Bernie and I agree with his policies but I could not support him because some people who don't know or care about policies support him.

I support policies.
Candidate supports policies.
Person I dislike supports candidate but not policies.
I do not support candidate.

Does that really sound like reasoning to you?

[NY06DemSoc]

24. Logic?

It's not Bernie and I agree with his policies but I could not support him because some people who don't know or care about policies support him.

I support policies.
Candidate supports policies.
Person I dislike supports candidate but not policies.
I do not support candidate.

Does that really sound like reasoning to you?

[TalenaGor]

27. candidate now is beholden to supporters who do not support his policies

Candidate is now beholden to supporters who want to burn our government to the ground

Candidate prefers to keep courting these people...

Sorry man that's just the way I see it

[rwsanders]

26. Logical fallacy of small sample size

Sorry, but the folks I know are stuck on the issues. Not winning, not the party, but the issues.
For me, we have been losing ground on environmental issues since 1980, with a major set back when Gingrich and crew got elected.
It may make you feel better about your switch to paint the candidate in a negative light based on one person, but I have yet to see a forum here where the candidates have been compared based on policy. That is why I've been doing my reading on that elsewhere.
If you base your choice on the behavior of a few supporters, no candidate is going to hold up, no even yours.

[kurtcagle]

30. Issues are a factor, but ...

When I vote, I'm voting for a person, not a platform. Others may very well be different, and I accept that, but I've found over the years that someone who is a great prophet (which Sanders is) often tend not to be well suited as leaders precisely because they lack the flexibility that you need in a position like POTUS.

I've been all over the map this season - I liked Harris, I liked Warren, I even admired some things that Bloomberg had to say. I have reservations about Biden, but mostly due to his age (which I believe are applicable to Sanders, Warren and Bloomberg as well). What made a difference to me about Biden, however, was that he was able to form a coalition. That's what a Democratic president needs to be able to do. Most truly good presidents were people who were able to keep a coalition together, to get consensus on a single direction from multiple stakeholders across all portions of the political spectrum. Sanders has some interesting goals, but as a person, he's caustic, self-centered and dangerously resistant to ideas that aren't his own.

Not all Sanders followers are Bernie Bros, not by a long shot, but the ones that he surrounds himself with typically carry the same attitude he does - burn it all down. He's too late - the country is already burning, already running a fever, and there's no real guarantee that it will survive the disease. This is not a stable basis for a society long term.

[rwsanders]

35. I'm more of a loner, so I don't tend to view things from the stand point of coalition building...

so it is rarely a factor in my choices, but I just saw an article that was making that point based on the show "Survivor" (which I never watch).
It is odd the things academics will choose to study, but someone wrote a paper saying that the strength of most winners was the ability to build coalitions.
But on the other hand, DC is a bit of bubble and I have read that most politicians view the public as far more conservative than it really is, and many of the coalitions built are with the 1% crowd.
So whether incremental progress is possible as many here say, or it will require a "revolution" as Chris Hedges says, is hard to determine. If I was positive that incremental progress was possible (which I haven't seen) I could get behind the full agenda. But especially on the issues that I consider critical, it has been a slow decline.

[zak247]

41. Vote for Biden

So you're pledging to vote for Biden, the likely Dem nominee and remove Trump from office?

[CentralMass]

28. I have a relative who is a real rabid tRumper. However I don't call all of my relatives

@$$holes becsuse of that relative.
Sanders, like tRump, Biden, or Hillary undoubtedly have some supporters who are @$$holes. That doesn't mean that their other millions of supporters are @$$holes.

[Magoo48]

29. The Bernie Bro thing is a myth.

[rwsanders]

36. Did you see that there is data to prove this?

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/there-is-hard-data-that-shows-bernie-bros-are-a-myth/

[Magoo48]

38. Yup

[TomCADem]

44. Is it now? The Reason Why Biden Is Doing Better Than Bernie...

...is because it appears that he is cutting deep into Bernie's prior advantage with the Bros.

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1237546951026946048&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F%3Fcom%3Dview_post%26forum%3D1287%26pid%3D665458

[Magoo48]

46. There were never any "Bros".

[Skidmore]

34. I had a similar

discussion with one of my nephew's self-identified Bernie-bro friends in 2016. He just wanted to tear it all to the ground but had no clue of how or what to build in its place. He couldn't really articulate what his anger was based on. I quit trying to have a conversation with him because those conversations tended to become circular.

[oasis]

37. Tens of thousand of those confused souls scurrying about.

[zak247]

40. knuckleheads

This is Bernie’s responsibility to tell those knuckleheads to get some sanity and get in-line and vote for Biden or go to HELL.

He has to tell them something like that or he's a piece of sh___ himself and is running on his ego.

He wasn’t for Hillary enough that’s why I never trusted Bernie, although I like his policies. (but Trump is a generational, almost apocalyptic evil) that its no time for political dogma, Trump must be beaten or the world might really collapse.

[leighbythesea2]

43. Someone close to me

Sat out 2016. Bernie supporter. Very knowledgeable democrat with long record of voting blue. I was appalled. It has scarred me honestly. And it has perplexed me regarding what is going on. As in, what percent is the person you describe, what percent is passive agressive, what percent moves over to vote for the nominee.