The notion that governors are delaying primaries to hurt the Democratic Party is insane bullshit.

[Music Man]

C'mon, people. Let the Trumpsters come up with such unfounded conspiracy theories.

We are in the middle of a pandemic. Everything from the NCAA to Disneyland to public schools and universities are shut down. The elderly are at a particular risk, and groups of 10 or more are being suggested.

Argue with the process Mike DeWine used in Ohio all you want--and there are plenty of legal problems with how it transpired--but the principle of primaries being problematic given the orders coming from the government is quite true. Primary elections consist of people getting together in large groups (sometimes hundreds) to touch the same tables, papers, pencils, and voting machines. Older people tend to work the polls. Older people tend to vote as well.

Could it be that governors are reacting in the face of a public health emergency? Do you *really* think DeWine is sitting in meetings with people saying, "OK, gang. We've got this health crisis going, so how can we use it to hurt Joe Biden? Delay the primary a month!?! That's gold, Jerry! Gold!"

Many of the posts I've seen here have centered on Republican governors delaying primaries. Then when you point out that Louisiana and Kentucky's Democratic governors also delayed things, there's no good reply.

Critical thinking is one of the reasons I am a Democrat. I'm embarrassed to see such half baked opinions from people not exercising the same skills.

[msongs]

1. except for bernie's ego we could just cancel the rest of the presidential primaries (not down ballot

[democrattotheend]

12. Most states voting at this point have other elections on the ballot

Most of the early states have separate elections for presidential primary only, but the states voting now are the ones that didn't want to bear the cost of a separate election just for presidential primaries, despite the fact that going later in the cycle means less influence in the presidential primary. I don't think any of the 4 states scheduled to hold primaries today were holding presidential only primaries. So people who can't vote because of coronavirus would be disenfranchised, Bernie or no Bernie.

[ibegurpard]

17. Thank you

[djg21]

57. This is incorrect.

It presumes that primaries are cancelled, as opposed to postponed. No one is disenfranchised when primaries are postponed. In fact, if a primary is postponed, and in the interim a state makes provision to allow more to voters by mail (or the period to obtain absentee ballots is extended) people who would avoid the polls in person could vote by mail, and the postponement could result it he enfranchisement of more persons and better turn-out.

It just so happens that postponement works to benefit Sanders, who is bound to lose anyway. It hurts the party because Biden can’t turn his attention to the general election and defeating Trump. But that is Bernie’s fault. We learned that he is an egomaniacal asshole in 2016 when he screwed Hillary over by attacking her form the left flank, and then refusing to get on her bus when he was finished. Is anyone really surprised that he’s doing everything he can to submarine Biden and to the same thing again this cycle?

[True Blue American]

2. Mike is right.

Mostly older workers at the polls. He did not cancel, he postponed.

We never had our Primary this early.it was always the first Tuesday in May. There is plenty of time to do mail in.

[Demsrule86]

24. He scheduled in person voting for June...thus he could postpone it again...this is partisan hackery,

he could have had a mail in primary that ended on June 2...DeWine didn't do that.

[True Blue American]

45. From what I am hearing they are going to do mail in.

I am calling tomorrow to get mine.

It was mentioned today the reason Trump has changed his demeanor is because he listened to Bidens speech over the weekend. But he can not stop from bragging about himself or lying. Trump is incapable of doing that.

[Demsrule86]

58. They have in person voting scheduled in June...so I will vote by mail also...but that is a pain too.

They have thrown votes out before. but the election will almost certainly be postponed in June and then what?

[True Blue American]

61. Called this morning. He said

They were in a little, kind of not knowing stage but my ballot would be sent right out first of the week. I know how hard they work, told him so!

[Turin_C3PO]

3. I tend to agree but

I am concerned about setting the precedent of ignoring a court order. It’s a tough situation, to be sure.

[Pachamama]

6. +10000

Precisely my concern related to DeWine and OH as compared to Louisiana

[True Blue American]

46. Several other states

Have now postponed, including Ky.

Democrats are presenting a bill and funding to go all mail in.

[Pachamama]

4. Is it?

Hmmmm...

I think a delay and postponement and demonstration that you set up a vote by mail process would be more believable.

Gov DeWine has done it in a way that really doesn’t make one wonder...

[LanternWaste]

7. Could simply be the side-effects of ebola...

Or just another gaffe.

[ucrdem]

8. As I understand it the primary process is a party function.

So I don't see a legal problem with the DNC deciding that the process is complete now and declaring a candidate chosen. From a public health perspective it might be a good idea. I'm sure Bernie would agree.

[PoliticAverse]

10. The lastc currently scheduled primary (Kentucky) is June 23. There's no real problem waiting a few

Last edited Tue Mar 17, 2020, 04:41 PM - Edit history (1)

months for primaries to be rescheduled.

[ucrdem]

11. But there's no real need to either.

And we need to consider the health challenges presented by voting. So let's call it a day and focus on November.

[Drunken Irishman]

15. We've already established an election is expendable.

I see no reason to believe Kentucky wouldn't just potentially cancel their election, either, if things are no better than they are today.

Then it becomes a problem when we've got a nominee who not only failed to win a majority of delegates - but failed to even win half the primary states (and nearly half didn't even get to cast a vote).

[ucrdem]

16. Exactly.

The old rules got thrown out the window when the primaries started shifting around. Blame it on coronavirus but it's a new ballgame.

[True Blue American]

47. Ky. Postponed

They have a Democratic Governor.

[Demsrule86]

23. No Bernie would not agree.

[ucrdem]

27. My heart goes out to his supporters.

But I think this is what we need to do.

[PoliticAverse]

9. It's almost like some people think this public health crisis is a hoax. n/t

[Tweedy]

34. No. More like some people remember

That the Republican Party in Ohio quite literally is willing to take criminal action to retain power.

Perhaps you should check out their track record? People went to jail for a stunt pulled under Ohio republican Secretary of State Blackwell not so long ago.

The Ohio GOP of this decade and the 1990's has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Healthy skepticism is highly recommended.

[True Blue American]

62. Those guys are long gone.

So are the Diebold machines.

Sherrod Brown said Mike did the right thing,known him for a long time, a good man.

Ohio will have a Committee to draw Districts after the election.

Now,if we could get rid of Gym. And Mike Turner.

[Tweedy]

65. The election shutdown nonetheless

was handled in a very stinky way.

The governor should have called the legislature into emergency session, rather than ignoring a court order and acting alone.

Also, all of the folks in positions of power during the phone jamming crimes are still in positions of power in the Republican Party. Only the teenage and twenty something kids went to jail. The most probable planners of the illegal dirty tricks didn't go anywhere. They are not long gone, although the diebold machines are.

[Drunken Irishman]

13. I'm embarrassed too.

I'm embarrassed that some don't see the dangerous precedent this is setting. For the first time in our country's history, we're establishing parameters on when it's okay to delay an election.

Ohio is the worst of the lot because they're doing it at literally the last hour and this might be the best time to actually hold an election as things are going to get considerably worse between now and the potential Democratic Convention.

Here's a reality that you haven't mentioned:

Because we've established this idea that postponing an election is perfectly reasonable, what happens if, in June, we're worse overall than we are today? What if in June, we're seeing mandatory quarantines because things have progressively gotten worse? In Italy, mail delivery has been suspended - you can't send or receive mail. That could even impact mail-in ballots.

We've already set the precedent that an election is expendable. That has been established with these moves. That is not up for debate anymore.

So, let's assume for this argument that things aren't better in June. Maybe they're worse. Everything has pretty much shut down. Now these postponed primaries are canceled.

The DNC has a tough choice on its hands. Their convention may be in a month, which likely means, in this scenario, it's not going to happen live - they'll probably have to do a virtual convention. But now there's a big problem: no candidate has a majority of delegates. No candidate has anywhere near a majority of delegates. Here's a more problematic issue: after today, and counting Ohio, there's still HALF the primary process left to play out. Now imagine not being able to cast any votes for those primaries. Again, we've already established it's perfectly reasonable to postpone an election. That's the precedent set with these moves.

July rolls around with Biden at 1,200 delegates and Bernie at 900 delegates. That puts Biden well short of the majority of delegates. And that also means there's over 1,600+ delegates potentially left on the board due to no primaries.

How do you propose the Democrats choose their nominee in that scenario?

Ideally, it'd be Biden because Biden is the delegate leader. But Bernie's argument absolutely will be that nearly half the primary voters, and more delegates than either have won, never cast their vote. What incentive does he have to drop out and support Biden? Do you not see how that scenario could potentially plant the seeds of discord if the party turned around, and in an emergency session, changed the rules to divvy up the outstanding delegates based on, I guess, popular vote at the time?

It'd be a nightmare. Bernie supporters would cry that the establishment picked Biden without anywhere near a majority of the vote.

And they'd have a compelling case since those states technically didn't vote. Sure, we could assume, based on polls, that Biden would have won big - but that's assumption and the assumption a week before South Carolina was that Biden would be trounced on Super Tuesday.

That is exactly what Trump wants. He wants the Democrats to have as much disunity as possible coming out of their convention and the best way for that to happen is to not have a primary process.

With Ohio deferring its election until later, it raises the probability that this scenario becomes more possible. Is it likely? I do not know. The concern is that coming out of Super Tuesday, I doubt ANYONE would have expected this. Two or three weeks from now? It might be way worse than it already is and we're looking at no election between now and November.

That's not going to help the Democratic Party.

However, had Ohio held its elections today, and let their people vote (they're concerned - but not concerned enough to close the grocery stores or factories), it could have offered Bernie the knockout I think we needed to avoid that scenario above.

But now I'm not so sure. Maybe Bernie getting killed in Florida, Arizona and Illinois does just that - but if it doesn't? If he stays in? We're going to be picking a nominee, I'm afraid, without half the party voting. And that's a recipe for disaster in November.

[Turin_C3PO]

18. You should post this as an OP.

Personally, I’m not sure what the answer is but you’ve given me a lot of food for thought.

[Music Man]

19. I absolutely agree with you.

There are so many issues and extremely complicated hypotheticals.

There are absolutely dangerous precedents being set by how DeWine carried this out. So if you think you're referring to me when you say "I'm embarrassed that some don't see the dangerous precedent this is setting," then you're misunderstanding me.

I'm talking about the knee-jerk reactions from many Democrats that this is somehow a plot by Republican governors to create discord in our party. At worst it's an impetuous decision made without considering worse scenarios.

It reminds me of many of Bernie's supporters insisting the DNC is out to get him because... someone wanted to use chairs in the debate? Or something? There's legitimate concerns about disenfranchisement, and then there's paranoid lunacy.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

36. Paranoid lunacy, my ass

It's a perfectly rational response to a political party, who for the last 40 years, has done little or nothing to improve quality of life in this country, but instead does such things as trying to destroy Social Security, food stamps, welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, hell, anything that would make life better for the disadvantaged. And don't forget racism and white supremacy-that's their favorite. They've been trying to get rid of Obamacare since it started, a program that literally saved my life.

So yeah, I hate them and mistrust them. And if that's "paranoid lunacy", so be it.

[Music Man]

43. The Republican Party has a long history of disenfranchisement.

The 2000 election, gerrymandering, voter ID laws.

This is not one of those times to assume some vast plot. These delays didn't come out of some vacuum. There's a context.

I think a lot of the consternation comes from the fact that Biden's supporters (and Democrats generally) are eager to see the primary process wrap up and feel that a big set of wins this week could have effectively ended things, but now that closure may be delayed a month or two.

It's a sloppy series of events, but the conspiracy theories in THIS case are not rational (in my humble opinion).

[msongs]

14. the D Day invasion is cancelled due to virus nt

[PoliticAverse]

20. Actually the D-Day invasion was postponed due to bad weather. n/t

[True Blue American]

48. Bingo!

My Husband was wounded on Omaha Beach!

[Demsrule86]

21. No, it is a dry run for the general...when they do it on a national scale. Fuck all Republicans.

DeWine is a partisan hack...

[brush]

22. It won't be better in a month, and why give trump an idea for Nov.

[BlueIdaho]

25. Mail-In/Absentee Ballots...

We need to work in all 50 states to make sure mail-in/absentee ballots are an option everywhere. No reason to go to a polling place when mail-in and or drop off ballots are safe and reliable.

[Music Man]

28. I agree.

This, I think, is the best solution. Safer health-wise and keeps the democratic process going. And there's a paper trail

[BlueIdaho]

30. Yes!

Of course you need elected officials that believe people voting is a good thing, but letting people vote from home with an extended window to return ballots is a big step up forward for democracy. Now and in all future elections.

[True Blue American]

49. Democratic Senators

Are presenting a mail in bill. Just announced today.

[BlueIdaho]

53. Can that be mandated federally?

Or is it a states rights issue? I’d love to get there in one giant step!

[True Blue American]

54. They said most states

Already have mail in. They would also provide funding.

[BlueIdaho]

55. That is tremendous!

Thank you for the info!

[True Blue American]

56. You are welcome!

[True Blue American]

63. Democrats are working on a bill

For that with funding.

[DonaldsRump]

26. Regarding Ohio, aren't factories still open?

Close it all. Or don't.

[getagrip_already]

29. look at it this way - what if half the states NEVER get to hold a primary before the convention date

It's possible that republican governors can just continue to postpone elections without providing any provisions for mail in voting instead.

At that point, nobody gets to 50%. That forces a convention fight, which is what they want. They want party disunity.

This has to end. The people have chosen, or polls show how they would chose.

Pull the plug, declare a winner, move on to November.

[still_one]

31. Those concerned Governors might consider mail in ballots for registered voters who haven't voted

[ecstatic]

67. There was a segment on MSNBC last night

where they discussed how black voters are more likely to be disenfranchised when it comes to mailed in ballots.

[Tweedy]

32. Well... it is today's GOP in Ohio

And Ohio republicans have behaved badly in order to steal elections for decades now.

There have even been criminal convictions for phone jamming.

Face it: the Ohio GOP arrives at this crossroads with filthy hands. Is it surprising that many smell manure?

Add that to Joe Biden's surge passed our current president in the Ohio polls and it certainly arouses suspicions.

[Recursion]

33. Unfortunately people will believe insane bullshit (nt)

[dustyscamp]

35. The Cons and some Bernie supporters are using this situation to attack the DNC

Link to tweet

And if everything went on as normal today some people could catch the virus. It feels like we are always in this between a rock and a hard place struggle lately

[BidenBacker]

37. 5 primaries postponed to date

all states run by Republican governors.

So I guess that means that Democratic ones are all uniformed or uncaring. Yeah, let's run with that.

Or maybe this virus is only breaking out in red states. Gold, Jerry!

Seriously though...I suspect that some Dem govs will indeed postpone soon. It would just be nice if they didn't do it either 1-1/2 days before their primary or 1-1/2 months. Apparently DeWine doesn't brake his car until he's only 2 feet away from a stopped one in front of him...and Hogan starts braking his 1/2 mile from a red light.

Not very good drivers, these Pubbies.

[Music Man]

38. Kentucky and Louisiana have Democratic governors.

That's literally in the OP.

[BidenBacker]

39. Thanks

You learn something new here every damn day. It sure beats Facebook...plus I'm not very good at reading Russian.

Scratch one conspiracy theory. Guess we'll have to come up with another one.

Sounds like NY is about to postpone listening to Cuomo & De Blasio.

[Music Man]

40. On another note, Beshear is killing it as governor in KY.

He's gained quite a fan base here, even among Republicans. We dodged a bullet by not having Matt Bevin in office during this crisis.

[BidenBacker]

41. That's good to hear

Any chance for McGrath? Love that gal and would love to see her sneak up on Moscow Mitch's 6 and shoot that SOB down.

I doubt it will happen but I'd hit my head on the ceiling jumping for joy if she pulled that off.

[Music Man]

42. Eh, not so sure about McGrath.

I wish I could say otherwise. My reluctance to be optimistic about that is for a few reasons:

1. McConnell has kept winning here, even when his favorability ratings are low. I have learned not to get my hopes up, because for some reason, Kentuckians have liked having him in office. Maybe because he just has name recognition, clout, and fits the standard bill for a conservative, which Kentucky basically is.

2. McGrath didn't even win her House race that included Lexington, which is left of center. She sure came close, but I don't see an indication of why things would be different in a statewide race that includes much more conservative, rural areas. She may be a rising star, but that hasn't translated into a victory... yet.

3. For some reason, Kentucky has trended toward voting for Democrats as governor and Republicans for federal offices. The hot button, cultural issues (guns, abortion, religion, etc.) I feel come up strongly in the national elections, and that translates into Republican victories in Senate races. We've not elected a Democrat to the Senate since 1992. Kentuckians are going to have to be really fed up with McConnell, and McGrath will have to have a compelling message, for this to happen.

Send us all the good vibes, though

[BidenBacker]

44. Will do, amigo

KY sorta sounds like the opposite of AZ...here we've been trending blue on the federal side but still red for state offices like governor and state legislature. Good chance we'll vote for Biden in November and have not 1 but 2 blue Senators along with the majority of House reps already being Dems.

Like you said, McConnell may have too much clout to get upset...maybe what we need is a big October surprise with an expose of all the shady deals he may have made that benefited his wife Chao and her family, though I'm not even sure that would shake up Kentuckians enough to flip. Still seems like there's too much smoke there to be no hidden fire...

https://www.vox.com/2019/6/11/18659681/elaine-chao-mitch-mcconnell-transportation-secretary-trump-pruitt-zinke-price

Oh, well...a man can dream.

[True Blue American]

52. Beshear is correcting what Bevin

Tried to destroy. One of the best health care plans in the country

And now for Moscow Mitch.

[True Blue American]

51. Thank you.

[True Blue American]

50. No, Ky. Postponed.

[NurseJackie]

60. It gives the "scorched earthers" more time to kneecap Biden..

... there's no mystery to this. It's a last minute attempt to give enough time to harm biden so that the GOP's more desired opponent can swoop in.

[The Magistrate]

59. Not Inclined To Give DeWine Benefit Of Doubt, Sir

The prospect of increased turnout which loomed before him and his state party would have been uncomfortable for him at best. Ohio Republicans have some serious form on electoral shenanigans of the worst sort.

[True Blue American]

64. Sherrod Brown did.

I trust him.

[The Magistrate]

68. He Is A Good Fellow, Sir, I Like Him A Lot

You may forgive me for making up my own mind. DeWine may indeed be telling the truth, but I see no reason to believe him.

[True Blue American]

69. I do not like DeWine

But Sherrod said he was doing a fine job. He flunked gun control. I would never vote for him ,so understand your point!

[ecstatic]

66. To be honest, I think there is coordination with trump

at least with regard to Georgia's governor* kkkemp. By knocking Georgia and other states with sizable black populations out the way, the primary season continues, Biden is weakened by continued fighting on both fronts, and democrats can't speak with one voice against trump and the GOP.