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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:31 PM

 

All of the Bernie Bashing is a form of cyberbullying which has no place on this website.

Cyberbullying has lasting effects on people.

If you want to discuss facts and issues and back them up with reputable sources, fine.

Otherwise, stop the Bernie Bashing.

I HIGHLY doubt Joe Biden would approve of the vicious, nonstop posts. He would probably be ashamed if he were to drop in on the Primaries forum at DU.


https://www.bullying.co.uk/cyberbullying/effects-of-cyberbullying/
Effects of cyber bullying
Cyber bullying affects people from any age or walk of life, including children, teens and adults who all feel very distressed and alone when being bullied online.
SNIP
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply All of the Bernie Bashing is a form of cyberbullying which has no place on this website. (Original post)
diva77 Mar 2020 OP
msongs Mar 2020 #1
zonkers Mar 2020 #2
TwilightZone Mar 2020 #5
Gothmog Mar 2020 #66
TomCADem Mar 2020 #40
diva77 Mar 2020 #3
Paka Mar 2020 #11
diva77 Mar 2020 #14
Meadowoak Mar 2020 #39
ancianita Mar 2020 #46
Post removed Mar 2020 #52
Paka Mar 2020 #54
McKim Mar 2020 #57
emulatorloo Mar 2020 #167
True Blue American Mar 2020 #178
notinkansas Mar 2020 #64
brush Mar 2020 #181
BComplex Mar 2020 #234
Anon-C Mar 2020 #32
quakerboy Mar 2020 #60
Anon-C Mar 2020 #65
Aquaria Mar 2020 #82
betsuni Mar 2020 #84
Codeine Mar 2020 #92
mcar Mar 2020 #138
zackymilly Mar 2020 #142
The Magistrate Mar 2020 #146
MineralMan Mar 2020 #162
quakerboy Mar 2020 #185
Aquaria Mar 2020 #262
dawg day Mar 2020 #218
The Magistrate Mar 2020 #222
emmaverybo Mar 2020 #254
ancianita Mar 2020 #45
Gothmog Mar 2020 #68
Rilgin Mar 2020 #71
Gothmog Mar 2020 #97
Rilgin Mar 2020 #103
Gothmog Mar 2020 #104
BlueWI Mar 2020 #172
JudyM Mar 2020 #183
Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 #188
Rilgin Mar 2020 #220
BlueWI Mar 2020 #226
Post removed Mar 2020 #110
Gothmog Mar 2020 #159
Aquaria Mar 2020 #105
True Blue American Mar 2020 #112
Rilgin Mar 2020 #113
LongtimeAZDem Mar 2020 #155
Rilgin Mar 2020 #182
LongtimeAZDem Mar 2020 #184
Rilgin Mar 2020 #187
LongtimeAZDem Mar 2020 #189
dawg day Mar 2020 #219
Rilgin Mar 2020 #268
LakeArenal Mar 2020 #257
Rilgin Mar 2020 #264
KPN Mar 2020 #70
LAS14 Mar 2020 #157
tritsofme Mar 2020 #173
Faux pas Mar 2020 #205
George II Mar 2020 #127
Cha Mar 2020 #4
diva77 Mar 2020 #7
Cha Mar 2020 #15
emmaverybo Mar 2020 #48
Bluepinky Mar 2020 #63
Aquaria Mar 2020 #87
Bluepinky Mar 2020 #124
NurseJackie Mar 2020 #136
mcar Mar 2020 #141
The Magistrate Mar 2020 #148
SidDithers Mar 2020 #24
Gothmog Mar 2020 #160
betsuni Mar 2020 #25
Aquaria Mar 2020 #85
betsuni Mar 2020 #86
NurseJackie Mar 2020 #199
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Aquaria Mar 2020 #88
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Harker Mar 2020 #28
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The Magistrate Mar 2020 #150
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tirebiter Mar 2020 #230
jimlup Mar 2020 #13
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jimlup Mar 2020 #53
ancianita Mar 2020 #56
Aquaria Mar 2020 #93
Just_Vote_Dem Mar 2020 #117
betsuni Mar 2020 #125
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ahoysrcsm Mar 2020 #90
TwilightZone Mar 2020 #20
questionseverything Mar 2020 #29
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Gothmog Mar 2020 #161
LongtimeAZDem Mar 2020 #166
Mr.Bill Mar 2020 #21
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NurseJackie Mar 2020 #129
stopdiggin Mar 2020 #22
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dotism Mar 2020 #33
betsuni Mar 2020 #34
marble falls Mar 2020 #35
oasis Mar 2020 #36
The Magistrate Mar 2020 #38
R B Garr Mar 2020 #80
Aquaria Mar 2020 #106
LostOne4Ever Mar 2020 #195
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pnwmom Mar 2020 #41
betsuni Mar 2020 #107
LostOne4Ever Mar 2020 #196
pnwmom Mar 2020 #201
TwilightZone Mar 2020 #212
LostOne4Ever Mar 2020 #215
Aquaria Mar 2020 #261
Aquaria Mar 2020 #260
Vogon_Glory Mar 2020 #42
yaesu Mar 2020 #43
TomCADem Mar 2020 #51
BigDemVoter Mar 2020 #58
radius777 Mar 2020 #67
Kerrycrat Mar 2020 #74
Demsrule86 Mar 2020 #119
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ucrdem Mar 2020 #76
NanceGreggs Mar 2020 #78
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wyldwolf Mar 2020 #99
betsuni Mar 2020 #101
Codeine Mar 2020 #94
Gothmog Mar 2020 #100
mcar Mar 2020 #149
Gothmog Mar 2020 #158
The Magistrate Mar 2020 #153
Gothmog Mar 2020 #251
janterry Mar 2020 #102
PubliusEnigma Mar 2020 #108
ms liberty Mar 2020 #109
True Blue American Mar 2020 #115
ms liberty Mar 2020 #175
True Blue American Mar 2020 #176
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Kaleva Mar 2020 #114
dansolo Mar 2020 #121
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Hav Mar 2020 #123
NurseJackie Mar 2020 #126
sheshe2 Mar 2020 #211
NBachers Mar 2020 #130
LongtimeAZDem Mar 2020 #168
Gothmog Mar 2020 #174
Anon-C Mar 2020 #179
Gothmog Mar 2020 #253
Happy Hoosier Mar 2020 #131
helpisontheway Mar 2020 #137
honest.abe Mar 2020 #140
zackymilly Mar 2020 #144
llashram Mar 2020 #151
TDale313 Mar 2020 #154
LAS14 Mar 2020 #156
MineralMan Mar 2020 #164
stopdiggin Mar 2020 #165
stonecutter357 Mar 2020 #169
Politicub Mar 2020 #170
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peggysue2 Mar 2020 #180
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ucrdem Mar 2020 #191
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Galraedia Mar 2020 #192
LostOne4Ever Mar 2020 #197
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NurseJackie Mar 2020 #207
Faux pas Mar 2020 #202
IluvPitties Mar 2020 #213
LostOne4Ever Mar 2020 #216
pnwmom Mar 2020 #224
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pnwmom Mar 2020 #250
LostOne4Ever Mar 2020 #255
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totodeinhere Mar 2020 #221
The Magistrate Mar 2020 #223
totodeinhere Mar 2020 #225
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dawg day Mar 2020 #235
showblue22 Mar 2020 #265
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DarthDem Mar 2020 #227
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Loki Liesmith Mar 2020 #231
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Skittles Mar 2020 #252
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alarimer Mar 2020 #263
rzemanfl Mar 2020 #267
zackymilly Mar 2020 #266
MH1 Mar 2020 #269
showblue22 Mar 2020 #272
Sewa Mar 2020 #270
showblue22 Mar 2020 #271
Sewa Mar 2020 #273
showblue22 Mar 2020 #274

Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:33 PM

1. one suspects bernie is not reading anything posted on du nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:38 PM

2. You are right. might as wel flame away.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to zonkers (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:44 PM

5. Ah, irony.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:28 AM

66. I noticed that also

 

Irony still exists
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to zonkers (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:15 PM

40. Is Bernie Sanders responsible for his supporters' behavior? Is Trump?

 

A key feature of Bernie's campaign is to demonize the Democratic party and suggest that it is no different from the Republican party:


?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1231021453270769664&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F%3Fcom%3Dview_post%26forum%3D1287%26pid%3D680522

Bernie does not merely push a false equivalency, but he actively campaigns against the Democratic party as thought they were the enemy in order to elevate himself. Bernie does not merely disagree with his opponents. Instead, he has not been shy about accusing his political rivals of being corrupt or motivated by greed.

https://www.topmags.com/magazine/16700/the-week?offer=GOOGSHOP&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=16700&utm_campaign=1830424018&offer=googshop&ref=646&gclid=CjwKCAjwvOHzBRBoEiwA48i6AkTm06Zvjpk1Co2AGkAnLW2n77JdcWSmixG7EIAiMpp80QM3qeH4FxoCCAoQAvD_BwE

Do politicians' bear responsibility for these unwanted attentions? I don't think we can give a universal yes or no, but perhaps a few guidelines for parsing that responsibility may be drawn.

First, blanket condemnation of the candidates on the receiving end of unwanted endorsements from reprehensible people is unfair. In Gabbard's case, Duke explicitly indicated that the appeal he saw was her noninterventionist foreign policy, which has been central to her campaign. That appeal doesn't make Gabbard's foreign policy bad. It doesn't make her a white supremacist, because sometimes white supremacists like things that are not themselves white supremacist. (As I noted recently about a proposed executive order concerning federal building design, the fact that Nazis liked Greek columns doesn't make the columns inherently fascist.)

That said, Buttigieg's argument — that "at a certain point, you got to ask yourself: Why did this pattern arise?" — is fair. It may be that the answer, as with the Greek columns and Gabbard's foreign policy, is there's simply an innocent overlap for which the candidate deserves no blame.

Yet assignment of responsibility becomes increasingly justified if a more substantive connection exists, whether unknowingly or not. In Trump's case, the author of the Crusader article about Trump told The Washington Post the president's appeal was "his nationalist views and his words about shutting down the border to illegal aliens" — which is to say, the racists like him for race-related reasons. Likewise, Trump's history of praising violence against reporters and offering to pay the legal fees of supporters who fight protesters at his rallies creates a substantive connection between him and violence done in his name which cannot be so easily replicated with most public figures across the political spectrum.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:39 PM

3. People who have positive things to say about Bernie are being bullied. My post is not about whether

 

or not Bernie reads DU.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to diva77 (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:47 PM

11. +1

 

As I stated in my other post, I am one who has been pummeled for any positive statement I make about Senator Sanders.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Paka (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:50 PM

14. I am so sorry you had this experience. Thank you for speaking out.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Paka (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:14 PM

39. +1000

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Paka (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:31 PM

46. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Paka (Reply #11)


Response to Post removed (Reply #52)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:47 AM

54. You are so right.

 

When I see "My Posts" lit up I am almost afraid to check it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Paka (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:58 AM

57. I Am Also Tired of the Cyberbullying

 

I am also tired of the cyberbullying at this site and I have begun to ponder leaving the Democratic Party because of it. This Bernie and Bernie supporter bashing is not ultimately good for the Democratic Party. We do need every vote we can get. Our very lives depend on it now!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to McKim (Reply #57)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:33 AM

167. DU is not affiliated with the Democratic Party. It is a privately owned website

 

So leave du if you wish, buT there is no need to leave the Democratic Party.

Take care!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to McKim (Reply #57)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:25 PM

178. My suggestion

 

It is often wise to take a break from boards. Amazing how it helps your perspective.

I have done it many times. Just do not threaten to leave because it might be hard to come back.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Paka (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:24 AM

64. Methinks you have plenty of company

 

in that regard. There is some really ugly rhetoric in places here.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Paka (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:16 PM

181. When is he going to drop out?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Paka (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 02:34 PM

234. +1

 

n/t
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:04 PM

32. "Why isn't Biden doing what Bernie is doing" is not saying a positive thing about Bernie.

 

And it exists in the context of other social media in which it is Sander's supporters denigrating Joe Biden overwhelmingly, and that cannot be ignored.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Anon-C (Reply #32)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:05 AM

60. Sure it can.

 

Winners can afford to be gracious. Losers have grief to work through which makes it much harder.

The hardcore ones that only have hate for Biden can be ignored. They are full of sound and fury and signify nothing. Biden is handily winning despite anything they have to say. Let them dig their own holes. Let them drive the rank and file Bernie voter away and into voting for Biden. Focus our fire on Trump. Win.

Or spend time and energy on attacking Bernie and all his supporters and drive them away and watch Trump laugh all the way to the election.

We tried path b in 2016. It didnt work. Please lets try path A. We cant afford another term of trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #60)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:26 AM

65. Ok, I'll chill.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #60)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:45 AM

82. Are you serious?

 

When did everyone become so delicate and thin-skinned about politics, of all things? When did criticism of other candidates become "attacks?"

You are not the first people to have your candidate criticized and you're not the first to lose a campaign. We didn't have these "oh we need time to grieve" self-pity fests when Carter beat Ted Kennedy like a pinata in 1980, or when Gary Hart had to drop out in 1984. I supported both of those candidates who lost, worked my ass off on their campaigns, and you know what happened when they had to back out? Some of the campaign workers cried the day we had to shut down, but after that, we got over it and went to work for the guy who became the nominee without being whiny little babies about it. We didn't demand or even expect anyone to coddle us or pat us on the head and say, "There, there. You tried." Who had time for that, when there was a nominee who needed our help? So help we did. Because it wasn't about us and our precious fee-fees; it was about electing a Democrat.

What is the MATTER with all of you berners that you got so emotionally over-invested in a mere politician? What part of he's a politician--that's it!--are you incapable of understanding? You don't sound like political supporters. You sound like a cult when you talk about "grieving" the failure of your dear leader and his "revolution" to summon the masses to beat the blue meanies or however it works in your political fairy tale.

Look, it's okay to be enthusiastic about a candidate, and, yes, even unhappy that he lost. But to need to GRIEVE about the campaign not winning over enough voters, as if you just lost a loved one? Do you not get how that's a little off-kilter?Why is it necessary to GRIEVE about other people not wanting what you did--which is what an election boils down to? It's not about you or BS or his supposed ideas. It's about which group has more people saying what they want from a candidate. It has nothing to do with you, personally, so why are you taking it so personally, when you weren't even the candidate who was voted against?

Even when I was 18 years old and having to sweep out the Ted Kennedy campaign office before we turned over the keys to the realtor, I didn't need to fricking grieve over the end of his campaign. None of the older people around me did, either. TK gave it his best shot, we gave it our best shot in support of him, but we all came up short. That's all there was to it, and crying about it didn't change it.

Elections come and go, year after year, if you're a real political junkie. Or every 2 or 4 years, if you're not. Candidates and campaigns, too, come and go. Many run, but very few make it to the finish line. The chance of disappointment is always far higher than the elation of victory. That's how it's always been, and how it always will be. Nothing you do will change that. All you can do is accept however a campaign turns out, and move on.

So why did I understand all of that at 18, while so many berners much older than that don't?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #82)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:49 AM

84. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #82)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:06 AM

92. A thousand times this. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #82)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:26 AM

138. Well said!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #82)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:47 AM

142. x 2

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #82)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:54 AM

146. Beautiful, Ma'am

 

Wonderful stuff.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #82)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:49 AM

162. +100

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #82)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 04:39 PM

185. When was the last time trump was the opposition?

 

When was the last time that democrats had to literally be afraid they would end up in death camps if the next election goes poorly?

When was the last time this many Americans were living so close to the edge of catastrophe. Not as a nation, as a group, but as separated individuals living so close to the razors edge of personal survival or not?

Why do people support Bernie? IF its because its a political game to them.. Sure, they will hop over to Biden nice n easy.

But if its because they genuinely believe he was the only one who could beat trump, and they either dont believe Joe can, or are worried about whether he can.. Yeah. Its scary AF for those people to let go of the hope of Bernie.

And if its because they think Bernie is the only one who will actually help them. Or their family. Or other community members they see suffering.. Yeah. Grief is reasonable at the lost of hope.

Even If Bernie dropped out and endorsed tomorrow, it would change none of that. It would be change none of that for many.

Because its NOT ABOUT BERNIE.

Its about people.

And in close.. I really dont care if you dislike people being delicate or whatever. Reality is as it is whether you like the shape of it or not. The fact is if WE want to win, WE need the votes to make it happen. Including a bunch of the folks that chose to vote for Bernie. Many of them will come over of their own accord. Others will need persuading. If we want to win the GE thats what needs to happen.

Or we can see what a second term of Trump looks like. Your choice, I guess.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #185)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:21 AM

262. Oh please.

 

Biden is hardly a step down in supporting their dreams and hopes. Furthermore, only the immature and the naive think there’s only one true candidate to save them all. There is no perfect candidate. You know why? Because anybody who wants to run for office has to have a screw loose. And the higher the office, the more screws are loose.

I mean, really—think about it. Think about doing something where you, your family, your friends, your associates, your education, your career—everything you’ve ever done or said, everything about you is going to be dug through and ransacked and distorted and who knows what else while you run for office. Do you know what kind of egomaniacal and/or power-hungry fool not only does it, but also volunteers for it?

You have to be nuts to take all that on by choice. And, if you’ve ever worked on a campaign where you have close contact with the candidate, you’d know how they are not like other people. I’m not saying they’re bad people, necessarily. Only that they’re a bubble or two off plumb, as my grandfather used to say.

They are flawed human beings, just like the rest of us, who you’re looking at to fill a job position, not become your pal or lover. You’re associating with them because they not only agree with you about how to exercise power (what politics is really about), but also because they’re crazy enough to take on the world’s worst job interview from hell. You’re the boss giving them the interview, and smart bosses know that it’s a bad idea to hire people for emotional reasons, or to get overly invested in them, emotionally. You have to maintain your objectivity, because the hiring choice you’re making is so important to the future of not only yourself, but millions.

That’s why you don’t become so emotionally over-invested that you don’t grieve over someone not qualifying for a job. You let them go, and hire the candidate who had the better resume and interview.

One last thing: An election is not a kumbaya, peace love dope enterprise. It’s a competition for power, where few will win and many will lose. If you aren’t prepared to lose—or can’t handle it when it happens, and it always happens, then you need to find another hobby. Because all politics will do is shatter you.

Maybe I can be detached and philosophical about these things because I’ve been a Democrat in Texas for most of my life. Losing is something we’re used to down here. That’s why we don’t get to the point of needing to grieve if a candidate loses. Because it’s a waste of time and energy. And because you’d be destroyed after only two election cycles if you didn’t get a thicker skin and learn how to be more objective about candidates.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #82)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:08 PM

218. Also, all the other candidates who have dropped out-- no one's talking about "processing grief"

 

Here's how they processed their grief-- they stopped their campaign and endorsed the presumptive candidate and turned their own campaigns towards supporting him, and urged their voters to do the same.

I'm not sure what is so intensely special about Sanders and Sanders voters?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to dawg day (Reply #218)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:28 PM

222. No One Seems Able To Answer That Question, Sir

 

Why the onus is not on Sanders to make overtures towards Mr. Biden, rather than demands, in order to heal a potential rift, remains unclear to me....




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #82)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:50 PM

254. Brilliant and yes, spot on.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:31 PM

45. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:38 AM

68. We strongly disagree with the assertions/claims being made about sanders

 

If you disagree, provide facts to show why the comments are wrong. For example could you explain how sanders’ magical voter revolution works? I and others never considered sanders to be a serious candidate in the real world due to sanders’ complete lack of legislative accomplishments. Why pay attention to a candidate who had never been able to get his agenda adopted or even supported by his fellow democrats

As I understand, we are suppose to ignore sanders utter lack of legislative accomplishments because sanders was going to cause some sort of magical voter revolution that would get his agenda adopted. How does this magical voter revolution work in the real world?

You can defend sanders best if you are able to use facts to explain sanders accomplishments and how Sanders magical voter revolution worked
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #68)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:58 AM

71. Believe what you believe, do not bully others posting your opinion daily as fact.

 

That is what this thread is about. Your opinion that your negative opinion of Bernie and people who like him and his message is an opinion, not a fact no matter how many times you assert that it is truth. More importantly, posting every day for months on end is divisive no matter how many times you think you are just expressing your opinion.

As to voter revolution, it works the same way for every candidate including the ones you support.
How is Joe Biden going to improve the ACA if McConnell controls the Senate. You ask how Bernie is going to get what he wishes. The answer is clearly now he wont because he is not the candidate. Now how is Joe Biden going to get anything positive for us. The answer is a voter revolution that kicks the Republicans out of power in the Senate. So the answer is the same you would give.

As to the rest of your post, its pure opinion. Bernie is on the left side of our national political calculus. We have not enacted things that the left would like but his and other leftist voices push our debate, Further, as you know, since its only been pointed out to you a gazillion times, he has been very effective amending bills to improve them or remove ugly bits.

With regard to your constant attacks. Just support Joe Biden. Just Stop being divisive. We are all getting enough stress in our current life and would like to log into a Democratic Site we have looked at and posted for years and years and not see every post a bash on a candidate some of us might like.

Biden won. Take your victory and stop bashing others.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #71)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:42 AM

97. There are records in Congress as to bill passed and these records are facts

 

The utter lack of significant legislative accomplishments by sanders is something called a fact. Congress keeps records of which member of congress sponsored a bill and if that bill becomes law. It is a fact that sanders has no significant legislative accomplishments in the real world. Most candidates who run for POTUS have accomplishments which they use to justify their run for the most important office in the world. It is fact that sanders has no such accomplishments in the real world which is why I and a great many others never took sanders seriously and I am not alone.

In the real world, it takes hard work and getting along with people to get major legislation passed. I was not surprised with sanders admitted that he does not try to get along with his fellow members of congress and that he was not good at pleasantries


I agree with the NYT description of their decision not to endorse sanders in that sanders is too inflexible and that he is not able to compromise. Compromise is key to getting legislation adopted in the real world


I admit that i do not understand sanders magical voter revolution that sanders claims will enable him to get his agenda adopted. I do not believe in magic and I have seen no evidence that sanders has a magical voter revolution.

Here is on one more question


As noted by the Magistrate, merely announcing a proposal is meaningless in the real world One needs votes to get a major piece of legislation adopted and sanders has not shown that he can do this in the real world
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #97)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:11 AM

103. I am not going to engage with you. I am asking you to stop being daily posting of your Bernie hatre

 

Every single politician on this planet and every person has stuff that one could do the same thing. This is true of every politician you support. There are no saints and there are no perfectly brilliant people. All people make mistakes. Joe Biden has made political mistakes in his past. If I posted it relentlessly and claimed it was all fact and everything that defined him, you would correctly take offense. That is the problem with your opinions. Bernie is not perfect and has policies that you may not like. Feel free to not like a politician but give other people the same courtesy. I would much rather live in a world that has the principles Bernie has stood for years. You may not. What I like about him is that he does not originate compromise watered down bills although he does vote for them and does offer amendments.

That is what I like about Bernie. Notice that I have not said any specific flaw about your candidate who is soon to be our candidate. This is because I care about unity. However, what you want to do is hammer anyone who disagrees with you about Bernie into the ground by picking his imperfections while not seeing what makes him generally liked by most democrats. This is all irrelevant except that right now we are in the midst of a crisis and rather than unify with other democrats that generally are on the same side as compared to the republican mindset, you want to post out your hatred of Bernie which has no unifying elements at all.

Try it. Skip a day. Post only why you like Joe and how great he is and all that he has accomplished rather than posting why other people should not like Bernie. You might like it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #103)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:16 AM

104. sanders is running for POTUS and so his record or lack of record is in issue

 

Again, I have never considered sanders to be a serious candidate because I live in the real world where accomplishments matter. sanders is ignored by his fellow Democrats because all sanders does is talk and sanders does not engage in the hard work necessary to get legislation adopted. Even Senator Warren is tired of sanders


sanders is only appealing to less than 30% of the Democratic Party base and that is not sufficient for anyone to take sander seriously in the real world



So if, from day one, they didn’t think they needed more than 30%, why would they actually run a campaign and build a culture designed to win more than his 30% ceiling? As that article notes, even way back in early 2019, Sanders was picking fights and creating enemies out of potential allies.

We saw that in Sanders’ refusal to broaden his message to bring in more people. When I said exactly that on Meet the Press, that “the problem with Bernie Sanders is that he has the exact same message he had four years ago” when he lost to Hillary Clinton 60-40, the response from the Sanders campaign was, well, this:


If your message wasn’t a majority message four years ago, and you want to win, wouldn’t you tweak it? They didn’t. Proudly and explicitly did not tweak it. They had zero intention of growing new support by broadening and expanding their message. (Sanders famously refused to even inject more biography into his stump speech to humanize him more.)

Sanders and his campaign saw that their ceiling was 30%, and they built an entire strategy around winning with 30%. That means that instead of seeing the other 70% of voters as allies, they saw them as THE ENEMY. Even when there was ideological alignment.

I understood sanders' message. I just do not consider sanders to be a serious messenger because I live in the real world
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #103)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:11 PM

172. Just wanted to stop in and affirm your points here.

 

I have been posting on DU since 2003. I used to support the site frequently with donations. I no longer do so because the conversations are frequently toxic, especially since the data breach in 2016. According to research I've read, 20% or so of posts on a site like this are likely to be troll farm creations, and the treatment of Sanders supporters on this site is certainly in line with turnout suppression tactics that benefit Russia and Republicans.

I have always enjoyed vigorous debate during the primaries, and that's why I've persisted here despite the constant scapegoating of left candidates, especially Sanders. But this forum no longer reflects or respects the diversity of opinions among Democrats. A small number of high volume posters intentionally seek to dominate conversations, and there is no longer any effort on the site's behalf to enforce the TOS.

There are some quality news sources linked to this site and there are posters I respect and learn from. Still, I am thinking lately that I need to trade the time I spend here for visiting my local Democratic office. Also, I'd like to spend some time working with younger voters, who are also bashed here constantly and ridiculed for supporting Sanders, the candidate who has most boldly spoken up for the failures of our currently disastrous policy directions in many areas.

Since I have always maintained connections to local and state officeholders and policy groups, those ties have fed my enthusiasm for working on behalf of strong progressive policies. Meanwhile, for almost 20 years DU has been my go-to place to learn about national trends, and it was actually the first blog I ever posted on, back when blogs were a novelty. Unfortunately, the high volume, one trick posters, like the one you corresponded with, won't own up to the toxicity they generate in a once-inclusive discussion forum. The best we can do is to avoid allowing this toxicity to contribute to a second Trump win in November.

I continue to post in the primaries forum mostly so lurkers, especially young lurkers, do not get a false impression of how Democrats think and act. Also, we on the left need to keep raising attention and support for structural change. We're already in deep water on issues of wealth inequality, climate change, and health care access, and if the left doesn't stay strong, structural change will not happen.

Thanks for fighting the good fight. Let's make sure Biden is elected in the fall, notwithstanding the counterproductive internet behavior on this forum.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to BlueWI (Reply #172)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:49 PM

183. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JudyM (Reply #183)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:58 PM

188. I just wanted the far superior candidate, far superior to anyone running, Liz...

 

She like Hillary are LEAPS AND BOUNDS better qualified than any of the people they ran against.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #188)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:25 PM

220. Yes. This primary my wife and I supported and contributed to Liz.

 

I also wished that she had run in 2016. I think she would have had an easier time in the primaries and then the General Election than this year. She is fairly remarkable. I can not agree with you on Hillary but appreciate your opinion. Anyhow, although I supported Elizabeth as well this year although I like most of our candidates in different ways in this primary. Its kind of refreshing but all of them had some points and qualities to offer this year.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #220)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:53 PM

226. I was also a Warren supporter this year.

 

I'm actually waiting on an absentee primary ballot for our April 7 primary. Still undecided, but it may end up a symbolic primary vote for Warren.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #97)


Response to Post removed (Reply #110)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:34 AM

159. The similarities between the two groups are clear

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #71)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:20 AM

105. So you have nothing, but attacks on Biden?

 

You don't have a revolution. That's what you don't get.

If you had a revolution, you would be winning right now. You're not.

Biden is also on the left side of our political spectrum--it's not a calculus. That's math, not a position. He's not pushing any debate that hasn't been pushed for decades now. We're tired of this hoary old canard that only St. Bern has ever offered single payer or economic justice or raising the minimum wage of any of the other false claims that get trotted out to prop up your candidate. They're just not true, and you're being insulting and divisive when you make such dishonest assertions.

As for your what if game, I'll play: You know how Joe Biden gets the ACA improved? By doing what BS never will: Working his butt off while also running for POTUS to help Democrats take back the Senate. He will be coordinating with every Democratic candidate running for the Senate to retain or flip seats to his side so he has a majority there. If we can have a normal campaign season (a big if), Biden will be attending more rubber chicken dinner fundraisers than you've ever choked down in your entire life to help raise money for down ticket candidates. He will be in their districts, promoting them at every turn. He will pick a VP who will be charged with doing all of those same things--and more. And all of those people that he supports? They will be busting their hump not only for their own campaigns but for his too, to get them all elected. They are all going to be working together to get each other elected. Because that's what PARTIES do.

Being part of a political party is very much like being in any other social pack. The people in the pack can't succeed if it's all dog-eat-dog, every person for himself. More of them get what they need when everyone works together for the good of all. And, yes, there's a huge amount of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." But that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Not when it's done for the greater good. So Joe will go down to Arizona and support Mark Kelly, and shake hands and kiss babies and say all the right things--and Kelly will do the same for Joe in return. That's what the pack does when they have a goal they're working toward.

This is what Biden brings to the race that BS is incapable of comprehending, never mind accomplishing: The understanding that the election won't be all about Joe, and he alone won't get it done. He needs those Democrats running for office in Maine and Kentucky and Arizona and wherever else, because they know their local electorates and what will get them to the polls, better than anyone. And they need Biden, because the POTUS candidate stumping for them is campaign adrenaline that money can't buy. Because Biden understands that the party has to work together, to support each other as a team, and not just to get him alone into office, he has the better chance of not only become President, but flipping the Senate D again. He always had the better chance of succeeding at both in November than BS ever could have, for this reason.

As for your constant attacks on non-BS Democrats, try practicing what you preach. BSers need to stop being divisive and stop bashing Biden and those who don't agree with BS or his supporters--which you just did. You hardly have room to dictate behavior to us when BSers paint every criticism as an attack, and then pull passive-aggressive stunts to bully Biden supporters into silence by implying that the only divisiveness comes from our side. As if any BSer is in any position to judge on that issue. We're not the ones claiming that an opposing candidate has dementia. We're not the ones simpering the scurrilous right-wing memes like, "Where's Biden?"--when he's dominating the media far more than BS has to date. We're not the ones lying that our vote is being taken away if a candidate concedes.

BSers are.

When your candidate or his supporters warrant criticism, we have the right to express it. And if you don't like it, well, there's the door. Nobody's forcing you to stay.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #105)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:34 AM

112. :)

 

We really need likes on this forum! Great post.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #105)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:36 AM

113. I do not say anything negative about Joe Biden. I like him.

 

I do not try to convince you not to like anyone. Try doing the same. Try not trying to convince people including me why we should not like someone. Try posting why you like someone rather than why I should not like Bernie. That is called a unifying way of discussing. I posted why I liked Bernie. My posts here are are saying, begging people to stop bashing a significant part of the democratic coalition. The primaries are basically over. Joe Biden will be our candidate. Stop trying to hammer your hatred of Bernie into people who like him. You might find it refreshing to just talk about your love of Joe.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #71)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:25 AM

155. It's interesting to compare posts like this one with ones made four years ago

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #155)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:29 PM

182. So you are saying I learned something about unity that you didnt?

 

This campaign I went into it vowing to not post any negatives about any candidate and just like my candidate and yes defend her (My first choice was Elizabeth) against attacks. However, the main attacks are all against Bernie who I also like and liked as my second choice. I think I have pretty much held to my vow as all you can do is go back 4 years to find any post of mine attacking another candidate.

Notice you had to go back to the last campaign (nothing about this one) to find any post that even discussed another candidate or tried to "vet" them. Even 4 years ago, I tried to post on policies and votes that I disagreed with although I am not claiming that in 2016 you wont find snark in some posts 4 years ago. In 2016, my biggest concerns were the votes allowing cluster bombs in civilian areas by Hillary, the fact that the emails did violate democratic party priniciples which gave rise to Sunshine laws including the Freedom of Information Act. My main concern for the general election was we were running a candidate that polls showed had net unfavorable at the beginning of the campaign

Even then when pointing to Hillary's net unfavorables which were the second highest in history of any candidate other than Trump, I always attached the words "deserved and undeserved" and attacked Republican scams like the Benghazi hearings as totally unfair. My main thought in 2016 was that the biggest predictor of an election is these net unfavorables on the election date. Early polls do not mean much but it would take a lot of work to move those net unfavorables in a public person who everyone knows. None of our candidates this year had the same unfavorables which is why I did not this year have similar concerns. There are still policy concerns and vote concerns I have but I have a lot more confidence that Joe Biden will win the election.

Was I perfect in 2016 in keeping emotion and not engaging in fisticuffs. No I don't think I was but I also didn't swarm DU constantly posting negatives about everything. Anyway you got me to engage on the fact that yes I was not perfect in 2016 and sometimes entered the swarm. Congratulations.

However, we lost 2016 so I tried to learn from the disunity and changed. This thread by others does not show the same recognition that the path to removing Trump does not come from bashing other Democrats.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #182)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 04:38 PM

184. In other words, "I'm not doing it anymore so it's ok for me to tell you not to"

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #184)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:24 PM

187. No, I never did what haters do here. I didnt swarm and didnt hate or express hate

 

I didn't do what some DU people do every day to every person here who expresses that they like Bernie. Nor did I look every day for something to bash Hillary for. I also expressed that I liked Hillary and expressed liking some of the things she stood for and did. That is completely different than what is going on here against Bernie supporters and Bernie. However, I decided this year not to say a single word against any other democratic party candidate because even if its something I believe, it is totally divisive. I wish others had learned that lesson.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #187)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:00 PM

189. Whatever

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #71)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:17 PM

219. I just don't think it needs a "voter revolution" to turn the Senate

 

It just needs a lot of voters to vote for the Democratic senate candidate in a state where the GOP incumbent is up for election. That's not a "revolution."

I'm not attacking-- I just disagree that a "revolution" is needed, or even that that's remotely what Sanders could bring anyway. What is meant by a "revolution"?
And how is that more likely than just a whole lot of voters voting for (or more likely against) a candidate in a state?
If McConnell loses in Kentucky (fingers crossed), it's not going to be because of a revolution, but because a lot of people vote against him for Amy McGrath. Plain old GOTV, same as happened in the House in 2018.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to dawg day (Reply #219)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 09:13 PM

268. Exactly

 

A voter revolution is "a lot of voters to vote for the Democratic senate candidate in a state where the GOP incumbent is up for election." For years, our statutes coming out of congress have lagged public sentiment. Lots of reasons for it but primarily its Republicanism. Democrats disagree on ways to address our problems whether through incremental change or directly addressing with big bills. However both cases need democrats to stand up and vote for people who will pass legislation supporting the policies that the voters who are voting want. That is all Bernie says and is pretty much exactly what every democratic candidate needs. If we do not vote for democrats, Biden will have the same problems as Obama had and will be as impeded in trying to pass smaller incremental change as Bernie would to pass more substantial change. The people who attack Bernie ignore that every Democratic candidate needs changing in the Senate to pass anything and that will only happen if we vote.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #71)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 08:46 PM

257. Biden's campaign is about one thing to many of us Biden supporters.

 

Beating Donald Trump.
Healthcare, voting rights, all of it comes AFTER Donald trump is gone.

Took the political alignment quiz on DU.
I mostly align with Pete. That’s probably 100% true. But we need to win 2020.

Biden is the one.

Politician have to have thicker skin than their supporters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #257)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 08:58 PM

264. No problem at all with your support of Joe. We need to bury Trumpism.

 

Notice that you don't mention Bernie or anyone else negatively. You mention Pete and Joe using positive language. This is the type of unifying post as we discuss politics. You are saying what you like rather than bashing other peoples opinions. Thank you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to diva77 (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:50 AM

70. +2

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to diva77 (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:32 AM

157. Right. And we're modelling an environment which, in the long run, I wouldn't want to participate in

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:12 PM

173. Sanders is waging a war against our presumptive nominee, just like Trump.

 

I can’t imagine folks here have much nice to say to Trump supporters. And I’m having a harder time telling the difference these days.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:58 PM

205. Sickening

 

and sad that people can't just get along and respect anyone else's different opinions. Progressive and liberal are not dirty words, they are words used to describe the evolved. With the steaming pile squatter we have on our white house, we should be better than that, k?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:12 AM

127. Clearly not reading Twitter, either.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:40 PM

4. BS Lost and he Spent 3x More $$$$$ than Joe Biden to Do it.

 

We're posting articles about what went wrong.. that is Not "Bashing" as you assert.


Sanders is being held accountable.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:45 PM

7. Textbook example.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to diva77 (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:50 PM

15. Roll your eyes. The BS campaign is still bashing Biden. Tell

 

them to stop.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #15)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:44 PM

48. +10000

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:17 AM

63. But it's not the DU community that's bashing Biden, or any other candidate.

 

Or at least not very many in the DU community. I have seen positive things posted about Bernie, his policies, or even a topic not about Bernie, and immediately a group of posters descend and start attacking Bernie. It’s disappointing to me that people who like Bernie’s policies can’t discuss them on DU.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #63)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 04:39 AM

87. When things get posted that are inaccurate

 

you're going to get people challenging that. What you consider positive, isn't necessarily so.

Don't want people to challenge assertions or all the rest?

Make sure that what you're posting is accurate, honest, and doesn't come across in a way that is rude or dismissive to the other side.

Because, I've rarely seen BSers post positive things. I see a lot of what this thread is--Whining that everyone is being so mean to BS or a poor, beleaguered BSer, and zero concrete examples to support that claim. I see too many occasions of BSers arguing from emotion, and not fact. I see a lot of wild assertions about BS's supposed accomplishments or influence that people can sincerely disagree with (and have evidence to debunk said claim). I see BSers labeling any criticism of BS or his supporters as "attacks." I see open or passive-aggressive bashing of Biden, the DNC, Democrats of all kinds and the voters who didn't agree with BS and his "ideas." I see a lot of them crying because other Democrats want BS to concede a race he can no longer win. I see lots of BSers who think they and BS are owed something for their losing campaign, and that they can demand to get whatever they want without giving anything in return from Biden and the majority of people who voted for him, rather than having the grace and humility to accept that they lost, and be grateful for any concessions they get after that. I see BSers who threaten to take their toys and go home if they don't get what they want, or worst of all, do it by refusing to vote for the fairly-elected Biden. And I especially see many instances, including right in this very thread, of the false equivalence of the hateful label of "Biden Bros" hurled at Biden supporters, when it's not Biden's supporters who have a demonstrated record of being, or being manipulated and riled up by, Russian bots.

Does that list apply to all BSers? No. But it does apply to way too many of them.

So, as a famous fictional character once said, rather than looking for the mote in someone else's eye, why don't you make sure there's not a beam in your own?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #87)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:32 AM

124. Your post above is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

 

Your tone is dismissive and insulting. You’re talking about BSers as a collective, that anyone who supports Bernie’s policies, even members of DU, are rude, ignorant liars who won’t vote for Biden. Most of the members of the DU community, including myself, are not in the “Bernie Bros” group. In fact, I voted for Amy K in the primary. But I really like a lot of Bernie’s ideas, love his speeches about wealth inequality and admire him for not accepting corporate money. I’ve mostly tried to avoid any threads that mention Bernie, they become negative very fast. Lots of bullying here.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #124)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:09 AM

136. So, what's your take on his lies and smears about the Democratic party?

 

Did you find it to be "dismissive and insulting" when someone said that Democrats are "ideologically bankrupt" and "intellectually bankrupt"? Did you like his idea that Democrats are "feeble" and "corrupt"? Did you love the speeches where the Democratic party was called an "absolute failure" and "the party of the one-percent" and the "party of the elite"?

What was your reaction to the claim that there's "no difference between Democrats and Republicans" and that the Democrats are "do-nothings"? Do you also believe the lie that the primaries are "rigged"?

Was it inspiring to hear the lie that that the Democratic party "doesn't care about climate change" or that the Democrats "focus too much" on diversity and that any party that's "very big into diversity" isn't "particularly sympathetic" to the working class?

So... if you think about it, all of those lies against Democrats and the Democratic part... that's a pretty negative "tone" that's "dismissive and insulting" right?... coming directly from the top. How do you feel about that? Do you "support his policy" of denigrating the party with toxic and divisive rhetoric?

If so, why? If not, then perhaps you'll better understand why lifelong, loyal, active and stalwart Democrats have the reactions we do toward him, and his defenders, and anyone who makes excuses for that type of behavior.

The lies and smears and attacks only serve to create an atmosphere of negativity: Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

Most of the members of the DU community, including myself, are not in the “Bernie Bros” group.
Who said you were?

and admire him for not accepting corporate money.
Actually... NO CANDIDATE is allowed to accept "corporate money". It's against the law. Are you under some misconception that all candidates other than Bernie are breaking the law?

Lots of bullying here.
That's not true. That claim is just a last-resort shield to divert attention away from the truth that Bernie's critics speak loudly and clearly.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #124)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:45 AM

141. You apparently didn't read the post

 

Does that list apply to all BSers? No.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #124)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:58 AM

148. You Call That Dismissive, Fella?

 

Examples of the genuine article can be furnished gratis on request....
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Response to diva77 (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:57 PM

24. That's not cyber bullying...

 



You don't know what real cyber bullying is.

Sid
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to diva77 (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:42 AM

160. Of what? Using facts?

 

Facts are facts. Why do you object to these facts? Facts are important
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:57 PM

25. Bernie's own words are bashing!

 

Bernie says the Democratic establishment's trying to stop him and that's not a conspiracy theory and obvious attempt to insinuate, once again, that Democrats are both-sides corrupt? I'll retire to Bedlam.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to betsuni (Reply #25)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:54 AM

85. I'm an atheist woman of Jewish heritage

 

And one of my dearest friends is a black Jewish woman who's had a double-lung transplant--which means she is in about as dire of economic straits as a person can be.

We're curious how voting for someone other than BS in the Texas primary (Warren for me, Biden for her) made us, of all people, the "establishment."

I keep waiting for a berner to explain how that works in a manner that passes muster with anyone who's not a deluded moron, but, so far, bupkis.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #85)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 04:08 AM

86. "Establishment" simply means any person/organization that doesn't vote for/endorse Bernie.

 

It's why when asked for an explanation it never comes, because it's silly and makes no sense. But an ideology based on the fiction that Democrats are exactly the same as Republicans except for "identity politics" is silly and makes no sense either.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #86)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:43 PM

199. It's simplistic, isn't it?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:44 PM

6. Thank you.

 

Very practical advice. I'm old enough to deal with it and throw it off, but I have been bombarded on this forum with nastiness simply because I support Bernie.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:45 PM

8. I believe that according to DU Terms of Service

 

the bashing of a Democratic politician, including Bernie Sanders, is a violation of the rules.

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice|]

Don't bash Democratic public figures
Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).


If you see "bashing" of a Democratic public figure, including Bernie Sanders, the Terms of Service say that you are allowed to report it. However, if a lot of others on DU believe that what you term as "bashing" is simply criticism, I doubt it will do much good.

Have a nice day.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Sloumeau (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 04:41 AM

88. That's the problem.

 

Too many people don't understand the difference between bashing and criticism.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:45 PM

9. you say potato I say potahto.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to William769 (Reply #9)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:00 PM

28. And Dan Quayle said 'potatoe.' n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:47 PM

10. hmmm all this wil stop when Sanders' supporters stop the vile memes such as

 

Biden has dementia

Biden is a corporate Democrat

Biden is for cutting social security

Where is Biden?

When supporters of one candidate, who has badly lost the election, post and propagate lies there is a blowback. Tell your candidate to drop out and endorse the winner with humility. Until then, there is no point is whining, complaining, kvetching and carping about how other people's genuine emotions affect someone.

There are options on DU to ignore posters that annoy one and trash threads that cause heartburn. You are free to use them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NCProgressive (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:50 PM

16. It's not necessarily the same person who slams me.

 

It's a cross-section of all Biden supporters that go after me. I can't block everyone.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Paka (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:52 PM

18. Then ignore them all and create your own peaceful and pleasant echo chamber.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NCProgressive (Reply #18)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:49 AM

55. I'm under lockdown living in one room.

 

Perhaps I should just go to bed and sleep through this nightmare. I guess asking for civility from others is too much.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Paka (Reply #55)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:55 AM

132. No one has been "uncivil" to you nor BS

 

Not every bitter truth lack civility
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Paka (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 04:50 AM

89. Sometimes Drama writers have it right. Who knew.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ahoysrcsm (Reply #89)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:31 AM

95. With a response like that...

 

you are the Biden supporters who have turned me against him from the git-go! Thank you for proving my point.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Paka (Reply #95)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:43 AM

98. "Biden supporters" are people who want a Democrat to win the election.

 

Bernie says that the "Democratic establishment" "can't stop him." What does that mean?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to betsuni (Reply #98)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:02 AM

150. You Are Unlikely To Get An Answer To That Question, Sir

 

Not because the answer to it is unknown to those you address it to, but because those you address it to know full well an honest answer to it would give their game away.



"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Paka (Reply #95)


Response to Paka (Reply #95)


Response to Paka (Reply #95)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:09 AM

152. I recommend some philosophy books...

 

You seem to be missing something in your life.


PS I changed just for You.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to ahoysrcsm (Reply #152)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:57 PM

186. Thank you for your concern.

 

I do have a number of good books and lots of crossword puzzles to help me survive. However, I'm 79 years old confined to one room during the lockdown, with good friends who keep in contact, but no family nearby. My life is normally filled with lots of people interaction, so yes, I am missing that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to NCProgressive (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:45 PM

49. Bravo.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:47 PM

12. Yes

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to elleng (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:51 PM

17. Tell the BS campaign to Stop Bashing Joe Biden.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #17)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:05 AM

72. Please give us the address or email for everyone of them and we can. Its not on DU

 

The only bashing here on DU is daily endless bashing. Biden won. Take your victory. If Joe is bashed on another site, take your angst out there. DU has not had continuous endless threads bashing every other candidate on every thing he or she does except Bernie. We are now on lockdown and it would be nice to not face it. I hope Joe wins and I hope he exceeds all of our expectations and improves life for all of us. At this point, the best thing that people can do, is stop divisive rhetoric of other parts of the Democratic party including on this site.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #72)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 04:58 AM

91. You must be joking

 

We've had multiple threads and posts of BSers propagating the right wing memes of "Where's Biden?" or claims that he has dementia.

BSers on this forum still claim that Biden wants to kill Social Security.

BSers have yet to let up on their attacks on centrist, moderate and corporate Democrats.

We still have BSers whining about how we're the bullies for wanting BS to concede.

We still have BSers whining (and lying) that their vote will be taken away if they don't get to vote for BS if he concedes. As if their candidate is the first ever to be asked to concede before every state has cast its vote. Where have they been not to know how most candidates drop out before voters get to cast a vote for them. It happens in nearly every primary without an incumbent running!

Maybe you want to pretend none of that is still going on, but the rest of us won't.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #91)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:33 AM

96. Just scroll down the greatest threads. Find one bash of anyone but Bernie. None on Biden.

 

That is the problem. All these people saying they are just bashing cause they are getting bashed. It is the easiest thing to check. On DU, there is Bernie bashing going on which also indirectly bashes people who like him. Right now there are no people bashing other candidates and frankly there have not been on DU for at least 2 months because I have done the same scroll. Every single day, there are numerous threads on every single thing Bernie does. If he says something, its why didn't he say something else. If he doesn't say something, its why doesn't he say something.

Do your own check. Just scroll down, it will take you less than 1 minute. Try to find threads bashing Joe Biden on DU. Especially now it really should stop. Joe Biden will be the candidate. We are all facing a pandemic. And we need unity not to bash one side of the Democratic Party.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #96)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:32 AM

111. I just posted a list of bashing that BSers have done in only the past week on this site.

 

And you ignored it to make the false claim that Biden is not being bashed.

There's no point in discussing anything further with someone who refuses to argue in good faith.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #111)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:41 AM

116. Now do the other side. Count the threads on Bernie daily. Look at this thread. Any Biden hits?

 

This site continuously bashes Bernie. Just be serious. Look at this thread alone. No Bernie ashing of Biden, only negatives thrown at Bernie from people not posting postives about what they like, only saying others should not like who they like.

Now to be further serious. There are people in the world who don't like Joe or other candidates.. I am sure that there exist sites and twitter which has majority negative threads about Joe, but here the bashes are all Bernie and unless I am wrong I am on DU. It would be nice if every site was totally at peace. Wouldn't that be a good thing to wish for and isn't it a good thing to wish for on DU as we approach an election. Just cause other sites bash, does not mean DU should be a hotbox of negativity. Try affirmative positive posts about your own support and views and why you like someone rather than post a litany of why others should not like someone. You might like it and it would be more unifying. I will do the same. I will not post anyting that I don't like about Joe separating them out from the things I like in his past. That way you wont feel bad for your support and I wont either. Have the same courtesy
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #116)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 10:08 AM

259. I don't have to do the "other side," cupcake.

 

That’s your job.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #72)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 02:15 PM

230. "Biden won," is considered Bernie bashing.

 

Truth hurts.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:49 PM

13. Strongly strongly agree but ... the

 

mainstream of this discussion apparently doesn't think so. They have not learned a single lesson from the past and apparently want to try the "our way or the highway" failed strategy yet again.

If I say anymore this post might get hidden. It still might get hidden. The Bernie bashing is beyond the tier but they don't see it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to jimlup (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:53 PM

19. Let me remind you that there is an election which Bernie has lost badly

 

He can drop out any second and save the delicate emotions of all his supporters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NCProgressive (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:30 PM

44. keep dancing your silly and pointless victory dance

 

and continue to alienate those who are already on your side.








If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to jimlup (Reply #44)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:32 PM

47. Just the facts. No dancing here.

 

I want to get on with beating Trump and Sanders is coming in the way of Joe's campaign focusing on Trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to NCProgressive (Reply #47)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:10 AM

53. Not facts

 

irrelevant fixation on your superiority which just isn't.

You're so far ahead it is obvious that you are going to win. When do we form a coalition. I'm not Bernie. If I were him I'd withdraw. But I'm not Bernie. Nevertheless, I STRONGLY agree and support what he pushes for. The Bernie bashing here is foolish and counterproductive.

Keep rubbing it in and pushing the left down. Funny, when the situation gets hard everybody claims they always held the left position from the start. Funny that...


If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to jimlup (Reply #53)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:50 AM

56. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimlup (Reply #53)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:17 AM

93. No, cupcake. it's not irrelevant fixation on our superiority

 

It's reaching the end of our rope with BSers who insist on whining about how mean everyone is to them. And yet too many BSers delight in lying about and attacking Biden and other Democrats, while expecting everyone else to treat BS and his minions with kid gloves. And that's not how it works.

There is precious little bashing of BS that happens here. There's criticism of him at times, but that's not bashing. Maybe BSers need to learn the difference.

By the way: Who died and made you the authority on who the left is? BSers are not "the left." They're one part of it, and not even the majority of it. This is the problem with demagogues: Whether it's the extreme left or right wing, they think they exist in greater numbers than they do. The failure to face this reality is why they fail, and why their "revolutions" never come.

That's why BS has lost. Not because we're mean, but he didn't have the numbers he thought he did. People just aren't into him or what he's selling. That's not bashing, but the truth. Running from it or pitching a hissy fit that someone dared to say it doesn't change that fact.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #93)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:58 AM

117. Also, many Bernie supporters are not Democrats

 

Many of the ones complaining about the way they're treated keep glossing over the fact that this is DEMOCRATIC underground, not LEFTIST underground, not PROGRESSIVE underground, not INDEPENDENT underground etc., and those constant attacks against Democrats (centrist, establishment, etc.) don't belong here. And they're surprised when they get called out on it. Amazing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Just_Vote_Dem (Reply #117)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:32 AM

125. Weirdly, for some, Democratic Underground means anti-Democratic.

 

I wonder what they think the underground during WWII was.
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Joe Biden

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Response to jimlup (Reply #53)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:58 AM

133. Many on here support Biden now but also feel dearly for Bernie's policies

 

Being fond of one or more of Bernie's policies is one thing but pushing vile anti-Biden memes to kneecap him is quite another.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to jimlup (Reply #44)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 04:55 AM

90. Can't alienate someone who plans to sit out the election.

 

Will you be voting for the Democratic nominee in the 2020 general election against Trump?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:54 PM

20. We all see what we want to see.

 

Sanders is not immune to criticism and he is not unique in being subjected to what you term "bashing". His senior campaign staff pushes fake memes about Biden's "dementia", about Social Security, and about his lack of presence ("Where is Biden?) on a consistent basis and they're repeated quite frequently here.

If you have issues with Sanders receiving criticism, you might want to hide the Primaries forum for a while. The tone is the same every election cycle, and this one is no different.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:00 PM

29. hopefully this one will be different since we lost last time

 

running off voters that support Bernie is a suicide mission

about ss biden wants to raise the full retirement age, to me that is reducing ss

the fra is already 67, for people in physical laboring jobs that is too old already
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:07 AM

73. Or people can see that Bashing Effects others and JUST STOP BASHING. UNIFY

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #73)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:44 AM

161. That would require sanders admitting defeat and endorsing Joe

 

It is sanders and his campaign who are attacking Joe Biden and the rest of the Democratic Party
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #161)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:28 AM

166. Exactly right

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:55 PM

21. Hey, it's not like we said

 

he has dementia or anything like that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #21)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:12 AM

75. No he was called a cult leader. Making someone here who supports him a cultist.

 

If you call someone a cult leader and people who like him followers and insist that they are not capable of thinking clearly, it is a bash on not the candidate but everyone who likes him. Hopefully you can see that. Right now Joe Biden will be the candidate. The constant bashing is just divisive and offensive to DUers. Just think about it and stop doing it. Support Joe and hope that our country comes out of the Virus. Stop posting stuff on DU that is only designed to make you feel good and other types of DUers bad.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #75)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:33 AM

77. Get some sleep.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #75)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:01 AM

118. You're called cult followers because you act like them

 

BSers here are wailing that they need to grieve over a failed campaign, as if their dog just died.

How can you not see how weird that is?

It's politics. You know what politics is? People deciding what they want from a candidate or a law or policy, and then groups of them deciding who will do stuff for them, or if they'll do something or not. If a group gets more people on their side, they get the candidate or law they want. If they lose, they don't pitch a hissy fit that more people wanted something else. They work to get more people on their side to change that later, or they accept that more people wanted something else, let it go and move on. More candidates lose elections than win them. Did you ever consider that? It's the rare person who gets over the finish line in November. Why are you howling at the moon for what will never be, rather than grateful that your candidate made it this far, and happy for the support he managed to get?

But not BSers. They act like the rejection of the outsiders who voted against him is an affront to their leader, a plot to get him because--well, because! and that it is the worst thing to happen since--since the last time he got rejected by the voters! You say anything to make him look better than any other candidate, even if it's patent nonsense--or outright lies. Do you realize that saying Biden has dementia and doing the "where's Biden?" nonsense isn't merely peddling appalling lies, but also resorting to conspiracy theories in a desperate bid to keep BS in the race, or pretend that he still has a chance?

Do you not understand that normal people don't make up lies to justify the behavior of a political candidate, or think that there are plots out to get him at every turn, or manufacture conspiracy theories to prop him up to pretend that the leader can do no wrong so that he and they can pretend he's more powerful than he ever was or will be?

That's not what normal people do over a politician. Those are things people in a cult do.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Aquaria (Reply #118)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:09 AM

120. Disgusting. Rather than understand that insults are bad. You add to it.

 

I am a 62 year old life long democrat who has not missed a vote. I like Bernie for the reasons I like him. You want to say this thread is wrong and then rather than condemn calling democrats cultists, you pile it on. I give up, may you find peace in hatred and feeling better than other democrats.
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Response to Rilgin (Reply #120)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:21 AM

128. Why, as a life-long Democrat, do you like Bernie "for the reasons I like him"?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to betsuni (Reply #128)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:59 AM

134. I do not insist that you like him. I do mind that you dont give others the courtesy to like him.

 

I would like a world that has medicaire for all. I would like my daughters to not have huge college debt if they go to college. I would like less billionaires and everyone who works to have a living wage. Those are some of the things that he has stood for his whole career. I like the fact that he was right on the Iraq wars from the start. I don't mind that he voted afterwards to fund the troops which included funding their benefits. There are things I don't like that he has voted for but on balance I support him. I like Joe Biden as well although I don't like some of the things he supported in the past but that does not totally drown out what I like about him. The same with Bernie. Posting over and over that he is on the left and has not achieved single payer given American politics does not make me dislike him nor does it make me feel that no one likes him or no one wants to work with him as has been posted over and over. He was the chairman of the Democratic Progressive Caucus one of the largest in congress and made chairman 8 years in a row until he made the Senate. Among the people in that caucus who obviously didn't mind working with Bernie were Barnie Frank, Nancy Pelosi. The caucus dedicated itself for fighting for the things I want for America. When I see some of the ridiculous attacks on him daily, it makes me want to respond by saying Stop. Unify. Like who you like. Support who you want but don't beat others over the head if they like other candidates or favor other policies. Is that clear enough for you.
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Response to Rilgin (Reply #134)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:01 AM

135. What?

 

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #118)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:30 AM

129. Nailed it.

 

That's not what normal people do over a politician. Those are things people in a cult do.
Nailed it. Thank you. Your last sentence was the best. That sums it up perfectly.

Do you not understand that normal people don't make up lies to justify the behavior of a political candidate, or think that there are plots out to get him at every turn, or manufacture conspiracy theories to prop him up to pretend that the leader can do no wrong so that he and they can pretend he's more powerful than he ever was or will be?
I liked this too. Actually the entire post was great. It just kept getting better and better as it went along.

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:55 PM

22. OK, Melania. message received.

 

but I'm actually saving most of my sympathy for the teens and pre-teens with real issues and struggles. That's really kind of miserable. On the other hand .. guess I've always kinda' felt the the Sanders people could dish it .. and take it .. on a more or less level playing field.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 10:56 PM

23. You have the ability to block anyone bugging you...

 

Cyberbullying at DU isn't possible, because the bullied has the ability to make the bully disappear. The tools are right there at their disposal.

Aggressive behaviour is already against the TOS, and will get a poster banned.

Calling differences of opinion at DU "cyber bullying" is a disservice to real bullied people, who have no way out and sometimes make the worst decision imaginable.

Sid
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Response to SidDithers (Reply #23)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:00 PM

26. Agreed on all counts.

 

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #23)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:02 PM

31. The bashing has gone on for years and there are groups of people who post in tandem to attack

 

anyone who states something positive about Sanders. These bullies always make sure that they have the last word. They seem to roam the site and immediately respond to anything positive or in defense of Sanders. It has caused Sanders supporters to give up posting on this site. It is a war of attrition against anything positive stated about Sanders. This is cyberbullying.

----
ETA - I can't imagine people talking to each other in person the way they do in the bullying posts.
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Response to diva77 (Reply #31)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:12 PM

37. Let's see some examples of what you think cyber bullying is here on DU.

 

Then' I'll show you examples of what cyber bullying is to see the difference.

You wanna try this or should I just take this as Faux outrage. I'll accept either.
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Response to William769 (Reply #37)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:03 AM

59. Of course

 

posting some examples would be alerted for interfering with forum moderation.
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Response to progressoid (Reply #59)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:08 AM

61. Paraphrase or send me a PM

 

Basically it's put up or...
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Response to diva77 (Reply #31)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:17 AM

62. No it's not...

 

Sanders supporters could Full Ignore every person they feel bullied by. Poof - no more bullies.

The fact that you have complete control over your interactions with anyone at DU means that you can end any perceived bullying with a simple click.

Again. Cyber bullying is a real thing that involves real people. None of us at DU are real (well, very very few post with their real names). If someone at DU tracks down your real identity, and threatens you in real life - that's bullying. If they dox you, and expose you to real world attacks from assholes on twitter or reddit or facebook - that's bullying. If they contact your place of employment to try to get you fired - that's bullying and harrasment.

Strong disagreement, even ridicule at DU are none of those. And you cheapen the term by ascribing it to what happens here.

Sid
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Response to SidDithers (Reply #62)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:42 AM

69. +1

 

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #62)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:08 AM

81. Mahalo Sid.. it's really sad accusing

 

members of "cyberbullying" when it's not happening.

To falsely accuse does cheapen the cause of the prevention of real "cyberbullying".

There's no examples just accusations.

StaySafe!

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #62)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:57 AM

147. This

 

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Response to diva77 (Reply #31)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:52 AM

163. I saw far worse behavior by vetted sanders delegates

 

I was cursed at and told that I was a bad Jew for not supporting sanders. I was told at the Texas delegation breakfast that I had to condemn Clinton. I watched official representatives of the sanders campaign engaged on the planned stunt of booing real Democrats like John Lewis, Elijah Cummings, Stacy Abrams and others My daughter was cursed at and called the c-word by sanders vetted delegates

Do you think that such bevaiot is okay:
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Response to SidDithers (Reply #23)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:47 PM

50. +++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #23)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:33 AM

139. "Calling differences of opinion at DU "cyber bullying" is a disservice to real bullied people..."

 

Calling differences of opinion at DU "cyber bullying" is a disservice to real bullied people, who have no way out and sometimes make the worst decision imaginable.
Thank you. Everything else you wrote was absolutely correct too... but that last sentence summed it up perfectly. It really serves no good purpose for anyone to dilute the meaning of "cyber bullying" in such a manner, simply because they don't like hearing the cold hard and unvarnished truth about Bernie Sanders. They diminish the real concerns and threats and consequences of those who are true victims.

#BeBest

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:00 PM

27. cool story bro !

 

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:01 PM

30. GOP, FOX, the Russians all do it

 

Divide and cause dissent in the Democratic Party. Remember 2016?
We don’t need to do it here. We have a candidate; bashing Sanders does nothing to help the campaign or Nov 3.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:06 PM

33. Pot, Kettle

 

All of the horrific, reprehensible abuse I encountered from Bernie supporters while working on the Warren campaign was never considered 'bullying', it was considered to be 'politics'... We dealt with it, discussed it, and dismissed it.

Go away with your sob stories.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:06 PM

34. Could you please give examples of Bernie Bashing?

 

You don't have to link, just paraphrase a few attacks you see. Hard to know what you mean without examples.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:08 PM

35. So why was Bernie not in Washington for two close votes? Where will Bernie be tomorrow?

 

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:09 PM

36. The Lounge is always open for those who can't handle fair criticism of

 

their chosen candidate. Posters can return to General Discussion after our nominee is acknowledged and the Primary forum is dissolved.

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:13 PM

38. Sanders Supporters Are Not Bullied Here, Ma'am

 

Nor is Sanders smeared.

Sanders supporters are vehemently disagreed with, and Sanders' behavior, and the likely consequences of his actions, are accurately described. People who are more used to circles where agreement Sanders is all that and a bag of chips is general, may not be accustomed to such disagreement, or comprehend how others might find Sanders cuts a damned poor figure of a politician, a leader, or even a man.



"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #38)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:49 AM

80. Thank you, Sir! This is the crux of it. Calling out dishonesty

 

is not cyber bullying, and much of what Sanders says are unnecessary smears against Democrats.
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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #38)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:23 AM

106. If I weren't married

 

I think I'd love you.
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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #38)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:21 PM

195. "or even a man"

 

Sir or Madam, You just undercut your own argument that Sanders is not smeared.

That part of your comment was unnecessary.
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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #195)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:41 PM

198. Your View Would Seem Limited, Sir

 

Do you imagine the reference is solely to some silly thing like 'macho' behavior or sexual potency? That is a nonesensical view of what makes a man. A politician's character is certainly part of a sensible voter's assessment of him. When electing a man to office, what a voter says is that he or she trusts his judgement and his character to meet whatever contingencies the future may place before us. My view of Sanders is that neither his judgement nor his character may be relied on, and that view is based on viewing him as a public figure for years, and looking into both his record, and his own evasive descriptions of his past. To say I think little of him as a man is a convenient and common short means of expressing this conclusion. Whether you like it or not does not concern me.


"Courage is the form every virtue takes at the sticking point."



"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #198)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:52 PM

203. No I take it as an evaluation of their Entire Character

 

Where I come from that is what the phrase usually means. Not a measure of masculity but a measure of a person's worth.

It is fine to not like his personality or judgement. But a personal attack on the Character of a man who marched for Civil Rights, who stood up for homosexual men and women on the floor of Congress, a man who has spent years fighting for universal healthcare is uncalled for.

You don't like him? Fine. I have no problem with that. But your comment was just a straight up insult. Unnecessary and unneeded. It also completely undermines your claim there is no Bernie Bashing.

I don't care whether you care or not. I am more interested in pointing out that your very post undermined your claims and supports everything the OP said.
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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #203)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:59 PM

206. At The Risk Of Repetion, Sir

 

Whether you like what I say does not concern me.

Saying I think little of someone as a man is not 'bashing', nor even particularly insulting. Rest assured, I am capable of far worse than that....


"I should like to take you seriously, but to do so would be an affront to your intelligence."




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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #206)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:10 PM

208. That is the definition of bashing

 

Not to mention the definition of a personal attack. Again text book bashing.


And I know you don't care. I don't care that you don't care.

But I do care about those following along at home. I want them to see that the very people who claim that there is no Bernie Bashing can't even get through one post without...Bernie Bashing.
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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #208)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:13 PM

209. Ah, Well, Sir

 

I am quite confident in the sound judgement of those 'following along at home' to understand what is going on our exchange....



"I'm going home now. Someone get me some frogs and some bourbon."
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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #209)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:15 PM

210. As am I. nt

 

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Undecided

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:15 PM

41. How do you define "Bernie bashing"? Serious question. nt

 

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #41)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:28 AM

107. We will not get an answer to that question.

 

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #41)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:26 PM

196. How about claiming he was a spoiler last time

 

Or that he caused Hillary to lose?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=632743
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=660747


Points that are claimed time and time again despite the fact that by definition, Bernie was not a spoiler, and that there is literally no evidence that Sander's campaign had any more negative effect than any other close primary.

http://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/did-bernie-sanders-cost-hillary-clinton-the-presidency/

But no matter how much I point this out, I get people who keep on making that claim.

Or how about saying Sander's isn't much of a man?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=683808

A straight up insult to a man who is an ally of the democratic party and has caucused for us and fought for many of causes.
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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #196)


Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #196)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:24 PM

212. "ally of the democratic party "

 

Then he should probably stop attacking it all the time and lumping it in with the GOP.
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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #212)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:57 PM

215. One needs to be honest with one's loved ones

 

Tell them when one thinks they have gone wrong.

It is what we liberals of the democratic party do all the time with regards to the excesses of the national and state governments. We want to improve things so we find what is wrong and point it out hoping to fix it.

Complacency is not helpful to anyone.
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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #215)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 10:27 AM

261. Complacency?

 

From someone who has one of the most pitiful records as a legislator of any candidate to run for POTUS?

Zero substantial bills. Did you miss the debacle of his “management” of the Armed Services Committee? Ask the patients on the VA waiting list about that.

If you think this is bashing, you might better find your best smelling salts for what they have to say.
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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #196)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 10:22 AM

260. How did he fight for any of them?

 

People who have accomplishments against the odds get to be called a fighter. Where are the accomplishments for BS, when he’s been in DC for decades now?

Where’s legislation he wrote and got passed to back up his big mouth?

An arrogant, loud-mouthed crank heckling from the back bench he seldom occupies doesn’t count as a fighter.


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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:21 PM

42. I do not see how disapproving of Senator

 

Sanders’ attacks on Democrats or his followers’ continuing attacks on Democratic candidates constitutes cyber-bullying. This is whiffleball compared to reactionary Republican calumny and mayhem.

Male Bernie supporters in this struggle for a better world for the long haul should learn to toughen up. Female Bernie supporters should put on their big girl panties (tm) and do likewise.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:27 PM

43. Yep, the Bernie bashing has been going on hot & heavy, I pretty much ignore it as acts of

 

desperation, russian bots or just plain ignorance but bashers must understand that all they are doing is helping tRump, not their candidate.
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Response to yaesu (Reply #43)

Mon Mar 23, 2020, 11:55 PM

51. NPR: How Russia Is Trying To Boost Bernie Sanders' Campaign

 

Russia helping Biden sound like Trump/Bernie supporters arguing that Hillary Clinton conspired with Russia to hack her own emails.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812186614/how-russia-is-trying-to-boost-bernie-sanders-campaign

Russia's state-sponsored messaging about Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign was more neutral in the fall.

But over the past six weeks, this coverage has shifted to mirror pro-Sanders talking points first used in the last presidential campaign, said Clint Watts of the Foreign Policy Research Institute, who has been monitoring Russian interference continuously.

"What's really come on strong just in the last 30 to 45 days are very similar narratives that we saw in 2016 about Sanders," Watts told NPR.

While Sanders has acknowledged on the campaign trail that he was briefed by the intelligence community about Russia's efforts to boost his campaign, he has been steadfastly opposed to that support, saying at a recent debate: "Hey, Mr. Putin, if I'm president of the United States, trust me, you're not going to interfere in any more American elections."
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:59 AM

58. We should have much bigger fish to fry like that blubbery, orange Pussy-Grabber

 

who is wrecking our country. There is no excuse for us to bash other Dem candidates or fight among ourselves. It is counterproductive and should not be happening.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:34 AM

67. Spirited debate is not bullying.

 

This is one of the few sites/forums that gives regular Dems and liberals an opportunity to offer honest critique of Bernie and his movement.

On most other sites (especially on social media) Sanders supporters tend to viciously suppress opposition.

Here, because it is moderated, they can't do that and must deal with the opinions of regular Dems, most of whom preferred other candidates. Sanders' base is fervent but small relative to the party as a whole.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:12 AM

74. I posted a positive Bernie post re books to read

 

And ended up being a straight line for a bunch of jokes.

Facts are fine, but the snark is tiring.

Nevertheless when Bernie folk thought they were winning early, they were just about as gross about it. When Pete dropped out some filmed themselves dancing. So I sort of don’t want to hear about Bernie grieving stages, as many of them weren’t very respectful either

Both sides could be better.
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Response to Kerrycrat (Reply #74)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:07 AM

119. I saw that post...clickbait pure and simple.

 

A simple google sesrch would have sufficed.
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #119)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 12:41 PM

217. I didn't intend it as click bait

 

I wanted personal opinions.

And to give the Bernie folks a moment.

Didn’t realize the Biden folks wouldn’t be able to resist.
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Response to Kerrycrat (Reply #217)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 03:25 PM

238. Well you know the road to hell is paved with good intentions...but no matter what there were some

 

interesting debates on the post...so thanks for that. Biden is the nominee...the sooner Sanders supporters accept this the better...we need to move on. They had enough 'moments'. Good grief, it is a primary...not a divorce or a death.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:29 AM

76. This is why Sanders should but won't get out of the race.

 

He should stop campaigning to give his supporters time to get over the primaries. Notice how swiftly Pete and Amy did this.

He should stop his attacks on Biden, directly or otherwise, so he doesn't dampen turnout in November.

He won't do this because he's playing falsely, to borrow a phrase from The Magistrate. Now, if I used a coarser expression, you might feel that you were being bullied. Those are your feelings and you're entitled to them. But if Sanders acted in the nation's best interest and got out of the race, we wouldn't speak so poorly of him.

So he needs to get out of the race.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:43 AM

78. Bull(y)shit.

 

As long as Bernie persists in ‘bashing’ our presumptive nominee, bashing our party and its members, and bashing anyone who disagrees with him, he is inviting being ‘bashed’ himself by Democrats.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 02:46 AM

79. Thank you for this!

 

The toxicity of the Bernie bashing was difficult to handle before COVID-19 really took off. Now it's just plain disgusting.

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Undecided

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 03:48 AM

83. The projection is astounding

 

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #83)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:57 AM

99. yeah. Definitely.

 

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #83)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:07 AM

101. +1

 

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:22 AM

94. It's called a backlash,

 

and stems entirely from the behavior of the followers of the independent senator from Vermont, behavior that has extended across two election cycles and has grown increasingly toxic with each electoral beatdown.

Pretending that the anti-Sanders sentiment exists in a vacuum is beyond disingenuous. It is in fact dishonest. Recognizing that the supporters of Senator Sanders have acted poorly and acknowledging that they have to take responsibility for that disruptive behavior is as much a key to “unity” as anything else.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 05:59 AM

100. I have seen real bullying by sanders vetted national convention delegates

 

The concept of a sanders supporter complaining about cyber bullying is amusing and full or irony. I have seen actual bullying by sanders supporters up close and personal

Normally going to a national convention is a once in a life time experience. I have worked really hard inside the party on campaigns and voter protection issues for a very long time to earn this trip. Too bad that sanders and his vetted delegates ruined that experience and did their best to help trump. A candidate has absolute approval rights over their pledged delegates because these delegates can change their votes and these delegates represent the candidate and campaign. I helped vet Clinton delegates and I know that I was vetted. The Clinton campaign told us that we represent her and that our actions would reflect on her and her campaign.

In contrast, sanders sent one very weak text the Sunday night before the convention and then did little or nothing to control his delegates. It was nasty I was there when the sanders delegates booed Congressman John Lewis. I was warned about this stunt 30 minutes before it happened by the Clinton campaign whip. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this event and declined. The booing of John Lewis was simply part of a patern



I was at the Texas delegation breakfast when a group of sanders delegates marched in and demanded that we condemn Clinton and change our votes to sanders.



sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his delegates the prior morning and the only thing that sanders talked about was himself. sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control and did nothing to try to help Hillary Clinton win the general election.

Finally a group of sanders delegates yelled at my daughter and called her the c-Word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. Again sanders was asked to tell his delegates to behave during the convention and sanders refused. I have trouble believing sanders now

As noted above, there is a pattern.



The concept that posters on DU disagreeing with the qualifications of sanders is the same as the conduct of sanders supports is truly ironic. The premise of the OP is simply wrong

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #100)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:00 AM

149. Gothmog, you are the first person I thought of when I read this OP

 

You and your daughter experienced actual bullying by Sanders' supporters. This OP is nonsense.
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Response to mcar (Reply #149)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:32 AM

158. I found the premise of the OP to be offensive and wrong

 

If sanders goes to convention then sanders delegates will repeat this conduct. sanders has not seriously made any attempt to control his supporters sanders was asked to control his delegates at the convention and refused
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #100)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:15 AM

153. Exactly, Ma'am

 

And so long as Sanders 'takes it to the convention' we may be sure such scenes will occur once more. They may still occur if Sanders retires from the contest, of course, as he has recruited to his banner a coterie of nihilist wreckers as his truest believers. But there is a fair chance much of their fury will turn on Sanders should he concede, and so dissipate well short of widespread convention shenanigans. A man who really cared about the people and the country, and was willing to do what it took to advance progressive causes, would willingly stand and take that hit. But Sanders has never shown the least sign of being that kind of man.




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #153)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:33 PM

251. I shutter to think at the stunts that sanders supporters will pull at next convention

 

sanders did not try to stop his supporters from booing John Lewis, Stacy Abrams and Elijah Cummings It was evidently okay to boo Michele Obama. There was a mini-riot at the Texas delegation breakfast because we would not condemn Hillary and agree to vote for sanders.

I have issues with sanders supporters thinking that yelling at my daughter and calling her the c-word would have any effect on my vote. The next convention will be a real zoo
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:07 AM

102. Thank you!

 

It's interesting how people become bullies on the internet.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:29 AM

108. Bernie is putting you through this by falsely keeping your hope alive.

 

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:29 AM

109. I agree with you but it has been this way since 2015

 

And it's not going to change. I try to ignore them myself, although I don't have anyone on ignore...yet. DU is not what it once was.
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Response to ms liberty (Reply #109)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:41 AM

115. One disagreement

 

Bernie is not putting them through anything. They are doing it themselves by not dealing with facts.

Bernie has lost twice now. The Revolution has fizzled. It is as dead as the Freedom Caucus!
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Response to True Blue American (Reply #115)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:13 PM

175. I think you meant to reply to the OP rather than my reply to the OP

 

But thanks for making my point.
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Response to ms liberty (Reply #175)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:21 PM

176. I probably did

 

But the whole I am being bashed because, fill in your own blank does not work for me.

Most of us have huge disappointments in life but we suck them up, move on. I know I have many times.
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Response to True Blue American (Reply #176)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:34 PM

214. Maturity is a wonderful trait to have.

 

I enjoy being a mature adult. I'll bet that you do too. It allows me to see things in the proper perspective.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 06:40 AM

114. How does one cyber bully fictitious people,? Very few, if any, use our real names here

 

This isn't like Facebook.

I don't take things personal here because it's just someone's created character interacting with my own created character and vice versa.

Edit: i just looked at you profile page and it's devoid of any info one may use to attack you on. For example: Nobody knows which candidate, Biden or Bernie, that you support.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:12 AM

121. Is your own sense of self-worth so wrapped up in Bernie

 

That you view any criticism of Bernie as an attack on you? And you wonder why people consider his Revolution is like a cult?
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:19 AM

122. Oh, FFS! Stop it. Nobody is doing that.

 

I HIGHLY doubt Joe Biden would approve of the vicious, nonstop posts. He would probably be ashamed if he were to drop in on the Primaries forum at DU.
Actually, I "highly doubt" that Joe Biden would approve of such "selective outrage" and concern. It's hard to take someone seriously when they scold only those who criticize Bernie.

I very much look forward do your next OP that scolds Sirota and Gray and Turner and Cenk Uygur and Matt Orfalea and Michael Moore and Phillip Agnew for their "bullying" comments and lies that claim Joe Biden is senile... or that the primaries are "rigged"... or other "bullying" and homophobic comments (and gestures) about beloved Democrats and their spouses.

Otherwise, stop the Bernie Bashing.
Oh, FFS! Stop it. Nobody is doing that.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:29 AM

123. There is some truth in what you say

 

I'd say sometimes the snark against Bernie is definitely too much. I'm 100% guilty of that myself and I'll by guilty of that in the future as long as BS is in the race and directs his attacks mostly against Democrats. We should also acknowledge that there are certain factors that contribute to this behavior against BS and his supporters:

What I have noticed about my behavior, I come to DU and one thread will eventually be about a Tweet, probably in most cases something positive. And then you see the most deranged shit in the Twitter replies from Bernie supporters. Besides pushing conspiracy theories, they also make it a point to persuade others not to vote for Democrats and that Trump isn't worse. So then I'm pissed off about it and let that influence the tone of my posts here. I know it's not right but that's how it is.
Regarding direct replies to BS supporters, I'm usually not aggressive unless it's something I strongly disagree about or if it's something that is demonstrably wrong. I think that is a normal element of a discussion forum. Say shit, get hit. This isn't an echo chamber. Your opinions get questioned by others who disagree with you.

Secondly, why don't we see this behavior against Warren, Beto, Amy, Harris, etc. and their supporters? It's not that there weren't differences and lively discussions between these groups and Biden supporters. But there is still a definite difference in how they interact. For lack of a better expression, it just feels they live in the same world while BS supporters are too often in their bubble. That makes discussions with BS supporters hard.
Before Biden started winning, his supporters were certainly on the receiving end of ridicule and attacks as well. Many positive Biden posts got pummeled, too. The loudest BS supporters and anti-Biden posters are somehow gone now the moment Biden turned it around. There is a reason for that. They dished it out hard to a level of ridiculous performance art and they didn't want to be here to see the favor returned. It's unfair that the reasonable Bernie supporters have to suffer because of the bad behavior of a few here. I'm not saying it's the best behavior and it's not fair but I'd also say, sometimes it's kind of healthy to vent and return the ridicule that you endured for long.

For my last point, you cannot look at the behavior against Bernie on this board without taking into account Bernie's action and those of his surrogates. No other candidate campaigns against the Democratic party, just Bernie. He hired some really deplorable people to be the faces of his campaign. He made the Democratic party, their leadership and with that some of their best politicians his enemies who conspire against him. It has a toxic and erosive effect. He deliberately plays that dangerous game and is fully aware that campaigning like this will turn his supporters away from the Democratic Party if he doesn't win the nomination. No other Democrat behaves like this and it creates frustration and anger among Democrats because we've been through this before. It contributed to getting Trump elected and despite all that, BS doesn't care about it and still plays the same game.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hav (Reply #123)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:07 AM

126. "No other candidate campaigns against the Democratic party, just Bernie."

 

No other candidate campaigns against the Democratic party, just Bernie. He hired some really deplorable people to be the faces of his campaign. He made the Democratic party, their leadership and with that some of their best politicians his enemies who conspire against him. It has a toxic and erosive effect. He deliberately plays that dangerous game and is fully aware that campaigning like this will turn his supporters away from the Democratic Party if he doesn't win the nomination. No other Democrat behaves like this and it creates frustration and anger among Democrats because we've been through this before. It contributed to getting Trump elected and despite all that, BS doesn't care about it and still plays the same game.
You saved the BEST for last. That last paragraph was perfect.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #126)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:16 PM

211. This This This!

 

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:39 AM

130. I started out as a Bernie supporter in 2016. I made donations, got the T-shirt, and wore it around.

 

As the campaign progressed, the behavior of Bernie supporters kind of pushed me into the Hillary camp. When she became the nominee, I supported her.

The final straw for me was when they heckled John Lewis and Hillary at the convention. You want to heckle Hillary? It's in bad taste, but politics is a hard-fought game. BUT YOU DO NOT HECKLE JOHN LEWIS! There is no-one in human history that I respect more than John Lewis. This is the final deal-breaker with Sanders and his followers. This is not cyber bullying, this is mob bullying. Against John Lewis. By Sanders supporters.

Nader / Gore- Nader siphoned off voters for his vanity run on "principles." George Bush and his disaster of a presidency followed.

Sanders / Clinton- Sanders' followers, many of them, couldn't force themselves to vote for Clinton. Look around you at the devastation.

We've already seen this movie. We're quite critical of how it's being played out again. We're terrified of the possible result.

Here's a political artifact I proudly posted in Democratic Underground and elsewhere in the '16 election cycle. I've still got it. I'm not wearing it these days.

Please excuse my cyber-bullying in this post.

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Joe Biden

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Response to NBachers (Reply #130)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:34 AM

168. +1

 

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Response to NBachers (Reply #130)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:16 PM

174. I was warned about the planned booing of John Lewis by my whip

 

The Clinton campaign had a whipping infrastructure in place because we were expecting up to 4 floor votes on Monday. Those floor votes were resolved but my whip kept me informed. I got a text about the planned stunt to boo John Lewis 25 or so minutes in advance. This was a planned stunt. I was literally in shock that sanders would let this happen
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #174)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:28 PM

179. My mom dated John Lewis while they were both at Fisk...

 

...Berners boo'd John Lewis?
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Response to Anon-C (Reply #179)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:34 PM

253. John Lewis is a national treasure

 

I have heard John Lewis tell his preaching to chicken story four times in person. The man is amazing
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:49 AM

131. Suspend your campaign, Bernie!

 

How is that cyberbullying?
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:15 AM

137. Maybe if he would stop bashing our presumptive nominee(and Democrats) we would just ignore him

 

until he quit.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:42 AM

140. I feel Bernie is the one doing the bashing and bullying.

 

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:49 AM

144. Bernie is fair game until he gets out of the race. n/t

 

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:05 AM

151. as long as

 

Last edited Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:02 AM - Edit history (1)

the base of BS is bashing Joe Biden, you don't have a leg to stand on. And where is BS on the stimulus bill? In Vermont, that's where he is was/is/was/is. No bullying, just the fact. I'm 70ish, a disabled vet and have to worry that this society is just going to let us die in favor of the richest 1%. Why should I have to worry about something like this? Why do seniors in America have to worry about so-called leaders postulating that we can be left to die because we are old and "nonproductive". Where is BS on speaking out for us NOW?
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:17 AM

154. Yeah. People really need to knock that shit off.

 

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:31 AM

156. Thanks for posting this. nt

 

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:58 AM

164. All of what you call "Bernie Bashing" will stop just as soon

 

as he withdraws from the race and endorses the presumptive Democratic nominee. As of today, Bernie Sanders is still a candidate for the Democratic nomination, and will be until he makes an announcement that he is withdrawing his candidacy.

Once he does that, there will be no reason to discuss his candidacy here and he can go back to being an Independent, instead of claiming to be a Democrat.

It's easy. All he has to do is recognize reality and endorse Joe Biden. We're waiting for that. But, until he does, commenting on his candidacy and activities will be part of the discussion on this forum.

Nobody is "bashing" Bernie Sanders. Some, however, all calling him to account for what he is doing. All candidates face such calls to account.
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Response to MineralMan (Reply #164)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:27 AM

165. +1 in a nutshell.

 

there is no path forward .. and yet ...
The obvious move (and the one that would most benefit chances in November) is .. and yet ...
This is so typically Sanders .. and yet ...
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:39 AM

169. you seem very concerned !

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 11:39 AM

170. Is it bashing to say you're sick of him and his actions?

 

Because I am. I want to see the party rally around the presumptive nominee, who is Biden. I would also like to see Sanders direct his followers' attention toward defeating Trump by supporting Biden.

The fact that he's going to draw out his digital attack ads against Biden until the end of April is unconscionable to me. He is going to lose New York and cause Biden to waste money by spending on what would have been unnecessary advertising.

Bernie's actions add to the stress that Trump brings me. He is not helping. He isn't even in Washington doing his job as a senator.

So is that bullying when I share my opinion of him and the effects of his actions?

Or, are people who do not support him being bullied by having him add to their overall level of stress and axniety?
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 12:09 PM

171. LOL, I'm sorry the voters bullied Sanders so badly. Maybe he can get a participation trophy

 

at the convention?
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:22 PM

177. Oh, please. nt

 

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 01:33 PM

180. The criticism would end quickly

 

If Senator Sanders had the good sense to simply end his failed campaign. Instead he and his supporters cling to the tattered remains and whine about abuse and bullying. Ironic since abuse and bullying has been a feature of one campaign and one campaign only: the Sanders' campaign.

End it already. Case closed. The Senator from Vermont needs to resume his 'life's work' in the Senate.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:37 PM

190. It's a small group that is unrepresentative of the majority of Biden supporters.

 

Just as there are a small group of Sanders supporters who are openly hostile other places online there is a corresponding group who simply hate Sanders in a very personal way and it makes them feel better to vent about it online. They have a big reservoir of misplaced anger and likely have their own problems.
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Response to Aaron Pereira (Reply #190)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:45 PM

191. A 'small group' didn't sweep three Super Tuesdays in a row.

 

How obvious does it have to be before he gets the message?



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Response to ucrdem (Reply #191)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:59 PM

193. I think you may have missed my point.

 

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Undecided

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Response to Aaron Pereira (Reply #193)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:15 PM

194. What I'm trying to say is that he's pissing off a lot of people.

 

More every day. Really pissed off. And every day he stays in he makes himself more hated. So it's not just a few bullies.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 07:58 PM

192. How do you tell if a person supports Bernie "Bullsh*t" Sanders?

 

They will constantly remind you.

It's has been impossible to post anything positive about any candidate on social media without one of his 12 year old followers bashing them. Granted a lot of Sander's supporters are way nicer on this forum but that's only because this forum supports the democratic party, to which Bernie Sanders is not a member.
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:34 PM

197. This thread is, in and of itself, proof of the point you are trying to make (nt)

 

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Undecided

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #197)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:46 PM

200. Nonsense. It's the exact opposite.

 

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #200)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:57 PM

204. More proof. And see the next reply for even more! nt

 

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Undecided

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #204)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:00 PM

207. Ha!

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 08:50 PM

202. Kickin'

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 09:28 PM

213. Once Bernie drops and lets Biden focus on Trump

 

all the hostility towards him will stop.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to IluvPitties (Reply #213)

Tue Mar 24, 2020, 10:19 PM

216. History of what happened after Bernie did that for Hillary in 2016

 

Says the exact opposite.

If anything the hostility will remain the same and anyone who complains about it will be attacked as not supporting the Nominee regardless of how much they work for the nominee's election.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #216)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:40 PM

224. That's because he kept up his run till two weeks before the convention, in mid-June.

 

He also met with supporters who were protesting at the convention, and he didn't campaign for her until two events in September, and then through October.

Too little, too late.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #224)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 06:31 PM

245. Which was his right

 

And actual scholarly research into the election shows did no more damage to Hillary than any other similarly contested primary. Which is further proven by the fact that she was at one of her all time polling highs coming out of the convention.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-clintons-post-convention-bump-is-holding-steady/
http://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/did-bernie-sanders-cost-hillary-clinton-the-presidency/

Speaking of which, yeah he met with those who were protesting during the convention: To tell them they need to accept reality and to support Hillary.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-booed-supporters-ahead-democratic-national-convention/story?id=40857311

Yeah he campaigned for her in mainly in October, probably the single most important point in the general election as that was the lead up to Voting day! He made dozens of stops and even was booed by his own supporters who didn't like Clinton.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-eye-post-election-goals/story?id=43300037
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/09/30/bernie-sanders-step-up-campaign-schedule-hillary-clinton/91342564/

And if it was too little too late then why was he able to get more of his supporters to vote for Clinton than Clinton got of her supporters to vote for Obama in 2008? To some here on DU, Sanders could have run a non-stop campaign event for her 24/7 from the day of the convention and it still wouldn't be enough.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #245)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 06:36 PM

246. Of course it was his right. And contested primaries always cause damage to the winner.

 

And he chose to contest long past the point where it served a productive purpose.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #246)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 06:47 PM

247. And still managed to bring more of his supporters back to support Clinton.

 

Either the Primary (prolonged as it was) wasn't as damaging as some make it out to be, or he did an incredible job of campaigning for her.

Which explanation do you prefer?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #247)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:06 PM

248. Neither explanation. What mattered were the swing states, and your own link shows

 

that Bernie-to-Trump voters were numerous enough in the 3 states to push them over to Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/

Even if we assume that the overall percentage of Sanders supporters who voted for Trump was 6 percent and not 12 percent, and assume therefore that we can cut every state estimate in half, the estimated number of Sanders-Trump voters would still exceed Trump’s margin of victory.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #248)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:25 PM

249. Yes lets quote from that one

 

But again, attach a lot of caveats to that analysis.

Mainly
In fact, this was true well before 2016. In the VOTER Survey, we know how Sanders-Trump voters voted in 2012, based on an earlier interview in November 2012. Only 35 percent of them reported voting for Obama, compared with 95 percent of Sanders-Clinton voters. In other words, Sanders-Trump voters were predisposed to support Republicans in presidential general elections well before Trump’s candidacy.


In other words, they weren't going to vote for Clinton no matter what. Hell they some of them probably wouldn't even have voted for Sanders had he become the nominee like this bozo:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/top-green-party-candidate-says-hell-run-against-demseven-if-they-nominate-sanders?ref=scroll


Net loss of zero.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #249)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:30 PM

250. Neither of these sets of numbers account for the disenchanted millions who gave up on the process

 

and didn't vote for anyone -- or who voted for Jill Stein. How many of the Jill Stein voters started out voting for Bernie? I don't know but some of his public surrogates did, like Susan Sarandon. And the Jill Stein voters alone were also enough to swing Trump's tiny margin of victory in the 3 states.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #250)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:53 PM

255. Voters like Sarandon?

 

A person who has REPEATED voted Green over the years? A Clinton hater who probably would have voted for McCain over Hillary had Obama not won?

Again these people were NEVER going to vote for Hillary.

There is no numbers on those who sat out but the Crystal ball link analysed Sanders Voters and based on that said:

http://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/did-bernie-sanders-cost-hillary-clinton-the-presidency/

Unfortunately we just don’t have enough data on the people who voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary but then sat out the general election. When working with such a small sample size it’s difficult to extrapolate conclusions about the population. However, I will try to address the behavior of his voters, including those who did not vote, in the following section.


Accordingly, the idea that Sanders cost Clinton the presidency because of his own voters’ behavior simply isn’t very compelling. His voters turned out relatively well for her and there’s little proof that those who didn’t were members of the Obama coalition who would not have voted for Clinton but for Sanders.


That said, given that Sanders brought more of his supporters to Clinton than she did for Obama, anyone who had contested Hillary would have had those voters feel disenchanted and sat out the race. Had it been Warren or whoever.

But that is of course the conclusion from the UVA link as well.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #255)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:58 PM

256. We'll never know how many people Bernie could have influenced to vote for Hillary

 

if he'd given full-throated support starting in April or May, rather than waiting till October, when millions had already switched to someone else.

All we know is that at all-hands-on-deck moment, Bernie was busy writing his book.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to IluvPitties (Reply #213)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:28 PM

221. But Biden's supporters maintain that it's over and Bernie has no path to the nomination.

 

So given that why can't Biden focus on Trump now? What's he waiting for?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #221)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:38 PM

223. Doubtless The Party Could Act, Sir

 

The leadership could come out openly against Sanders, commence raising funds for Mr. Biden, endorse him and otherwise indicate full support for him. It would require some changes in the rules the Party established for itself to operate under, but the Democratic Party is a private body, and no one has any legal standing for redress if those rules are changed, not even members of that body.

Personally I would find the howling set up by Sanders' and his coterie were this done quite amusing. The shrieks of 'rigged against 'Bernie'!" would be shrill. Hell, we might even get a 'Fair Play for 'Bernie'!' Committee out of it.

How would you regard it, Sir?





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #223)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:46 PM

225. I don't think that the leadership should take sides as long as there are two candidates

 

in the race with a mathematical chance. To do otherwise would risk dividing the party and the party needs to be unified going into the November election. People who believe that Trump's loss is assured by the present health care crisis are not taking into account how stupid so many American voters are. The latest poll I have seen shows a majority actually approving of Trump's management of the crisis as hard as that is to believe.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #225)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 02:24 PM

232. I Think They Should Do It Now, Sir

 

I would be inclined to strip Sanders today of seniority within the Senate's Democratic caucus, and of all committee assignments as well. I do not respond well to blackmail or threats. If he does not like it, let him cross the aisle and join McConnell in openly wrecking the country. At least then his actions would be 'free from the base alloy of hypocrisy'.

It must be remembered Sanders is not really running to secure the Presidential nomination of the Democratic Party. He is running against the 'Democratic Establishment' which he hopes to wreck, or to weaken sufficiently that he may take over the wreckage and shape it to a pattern he prefers. He never expected to ever get the nomination when he first considered running in 2012, and he does not expect to get it now. Doubtless for a few months he thought he had lightning in a bottle in the spring of 2016, and though that hope faded to ashes he could fall back on his original intention to wreck the "Democratic Establishment', thinking himself in the catbird seat when he made his demands. People who are not acting in good faith cannot expect to be treated with good faith. In fact, to be just, treatment of such persons should be obviously and glaringly unfair.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #225)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 02:41 PM

235. everything has changed now-- the remaining primaries mostly postponed?

 

No one can get out and do a campaign rally. Campaign staffers are furloughed.

This really isn't a good time for a last-ditch scorched-earth stand. The party has to regroup, figure out how to run a general campaign in the middle of a pandemic.

It would be simpler, wouldn't it, if Sanders just acceded to the inevitable and dropped out so that all focus can be on the general. It's just not clear to me what is supposed to be accomplished by limping along in this weird quarantined new environment when "who wins Indiana" or whatever is just irrelevant.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #225)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 09:05 PM

265. Bernie is done.

 

He will never be our nominee under any circumstance
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #221)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:54 PM

228. He should, but VP Biden is too much of a gentleman

 

He knows that as long as he is not the presumptive nominee, and until Senator Sanders concedes or the convention, he won't be the presumtive nominee or the nominee out right, he cannot attack a 'fellow' party member. That's not how it's done in the Democratic party. In the Republican Party, Trump spewed out personal attacks on his opponents, and Senator Sanders attacks the Democrati Party while his campaign staff handles the personal attacks on his opponent, but VP Biden holds himself to a higher standard. And he isn't going to trample on party customs, even if I think he should. For Senator Sanders is holding up not only the campaign against Trump, he is also materially damaging the Democratic Party's fights in down-ticket races. Only the presumptive nominee can release the money raised for down-ticket races, and it is abundantly clear that Senator Sanders don't care about the down-ticket races unless he gets a quid pro quo. He doesn't fundraise for them unless they endorse him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to KitSileya (Reply #228)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 03:23 PM

237. A Gentleman Needs Hatchet Men At Times, Sir

 

I hope Mr. Biden has a few....



"I mean you no harm, Sir. But I can't speak for Captain Turner."






"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #237)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 04:02 PM

239. True dat.

 

Did you see that Senator Sanders' supporters are now triumphing because they claim their man got "his" unemployment benefits into the emergency bill? ...in the House version. While he was "reasessing" in Vermont.

I swear, these guys need a civics lesson as bad as a certain other politician's MAGArats do - they were blaming the Democrats for the Senate Bill not being 100% to their liking. The idea that if you don't have a majority in Congress means that you don't get everything you want is as lost on them as on their Savior - he keeps saying that a groundswell of his revolutionary protestors outside Congress would pressure the Republicans to do the right thing. And I ask you (there's no use asking Senator Sanders), if that were the case, why didn't he bring out this revolutionary horde when impeachment was being voted on? Didn't he think the vote warranted it?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to KitSileya (Reply #239)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 04:04 PM

240. I Have Seen that Patent Idiocy, Sir

 

These are people who would believe and cheer the increase of the chocolate ration from thirty gammes a week to twenty....
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #240)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 04:08 PM

241. As an English teacher

 

with a Master's degree in American literature (my thesis was on Robert Heinlein, for my sins), I caught that reference, sir! Best course I took at that level was one named 'Utopias and Dystopias'.

(And I'm a ma'am, if you don't mind)
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to KitSileya (Reply #241)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 04:18 PM

242. I Shall Try And Remember, Ma'am

 

And you are forgiven for the Heinlien. 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress' and 'Starship Troopers' are ripping yarns, though the social structure in the former would never have evolved in the circumstances set out, and the politics of the latter are absurd. It was the law when I was young that 'Stranger In a Strange Land' had to be read, and it was fun enough, but once I came upon 'Farnham's Freehold' I decided the man was worth the small effort required to forget and ignore. I understand he has made some subsequent apology for that one, but that makes no difference, he meant it when he did it....


"Whiskey don't make liars, it just makes fools. So I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said."
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #242)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 04:27 PM

243. True. All true.

 

I wrote about the female main charactershe wrote, focussing on 'To Sail Beyond the Sunset' and 'Friday'. Quite interesting to look at men trying to write female characters, but I think I would be a lot harsher today at 44 than I was back then at 26.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to KitSileya (Reply #243)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 04:39 PM

244. Those I Cannot Comment On, Ma'am

 

It seems to me in writing a character who is a woman, the best course for a man to take is simply to write about a person, without any attempt to present something peculiarly 'female' or feminine in outlook. Certain things will need attention, one must think into a smaller body, and perhaps a more nimble mind, with a greater attention to detail, but otherwise the thing comes under 'people are people'. These are a things that can be got right, and an attempt at the others is sure to get caught up in what a man thinks women are, and that is not something I suspect many women could see themselves in.

A pleasure to make your acquaintance, Ma'am!

Be well.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 01:53 PM

227. Ahhhhh

 

Thread trashed.
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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 02:07 PM

229. kick

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 02:16 PM

231. If it's just bashing Bernie

 

Who else does it hurt, besides Bernie?
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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 02:32 PM

233. Alas, Bernie should be bashed to extremes-- he has no interest whatsoever in anything...

 

but the further aggrandizement of Bernie and his '60s politics. And not the best part of '60s politics, to be sure. Just the laughable parts-- all of his talk about justice and equality has been approached by actual attempts at social justice by others, but then scorned by him as not good enough.

He did his best to screw Hillary's chances in the general when he refused to get out and campaign for her until two or three small mumbles just before the election.

He has spent around 30 years in Congress without one significant legislative accomplishment or any coalition building. He uses the Democratic party as a backdoor to campaigning, since he spends the rest of his time complaining about it. He knows perfectly well that he is incapable of building even the semblance of a third party with his crew of whining brats, and is perfectly aware of the history of third parties in American politics even if he could get one off the ground.

So, why should any Democrat who has been out getting petition signatures, paying for campaigns, or doing any of the myriad things party members of all sorts do every year (as opposed to every four years) give Bernie the time of day?

This is his absolutely last and final shot to be anything but a tiny asterisk in the history books, and he will not give up easily, but we are voting for the future of the nation, not for balm for Bernie's hurt feelings and dead dreams.

He should just shut up and step aside, allowing for unity to get rid of Trump. His betters in the primary season have already done that. Harris, Warren, Klobuchar, Mayor Pete, even Bloomberg, are among those who have the skills and essentials to beat Trump and do the job of President, but they all stepped back to back Biden and support unity and beating Trump.

All but one, who has to be the outlier and the oilcan that dropped into the works.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 03:14 PM

236. Just stay in GD, then.

 

Far less polarization there. The primary forum is always pretty rough. 2008, 2016, being worse than this season, in my opinion.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Wed Mar 25, 2020, 07:33 PM

252. poor Bernie

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:28 AM

258. Your side just decided to accuse Joe Biden of rape.

 

I don't want to hear SHIT from the Sanders/“Undecided” camp anymore. They just want to destroy everything because they got systematically annihilated at the ballot box.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 06:23 PM

263. It's not making me want to stay here, that's for sure.

 

And if this virus doesn’t show how badly we need Medicare for all, then I don’t know what will. I mean, we really need Warren to be the nominee, not some old corporate guy. But here we are. But I won’t stay here. I’m a progressive, not a Democrat, evidently.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to alarimer (Reply #263)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 09:11 PM

267. Bookmarking. n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 09:06 PM

266. Have you seen the new Bernie video? It's called "3 Lawns, 1 Mower". n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 09:18 PM

269. Bernie surrogates pushing nasty false allegations about the Dem frontrunner is cyberbullying

 

It is potentially very damaging to decent people with anxiety issues, when we see this supposed "ally" (I know, yeah, right) actually trying to torpedo any chance we have of beating Trump.

I am so fucking sick of BS that I could scream.

And no, my saying this is how I feel, is NOT cyberbullying.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to MH1 (Reply #269)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 09:40 PM

272. That's how I feel.

 

My stress and anxiety if way up. Bernie's negative style campaign stress people out. His selfishness is hurting a lot of people.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to diva77 (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 09:35 PM

270. Tribalism run a muck

 

The aggressive Biden supporters aren’t doing their candidate any favor. Creating resentment against Biden through their bullying tactics is counterproductive. It is past time to light up and be more respectful of others.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Sewa (Reply #270)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 09:37 PM

271. We're not accusing Bernie of rape.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to showblue22 (Reply #271)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 10:52 PM

273. What does that have to do with Bernie supporters

 

on this site? Does that give you permission to disrespect Bernie supporters, who had nothing to do with the claim? I’m sure that Biden is happy that you are helping to spread the story and keeping it alive.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Sewa (Reply #273)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:08 PM

274. It's a smear campaign by Bernie supporters and surrogates

 

Bernie will never be our nominee, no matter what bullshit you guys pull. VOTES win elections not smear campaigns.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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