I Fear that Bernie 2020 General Election chances are in peril due to aggressive attacks against him

[berni_mccoy]

Anyone who tries to defend Bernie must back up their defense to the Nth degree. Despite the fact that Bernie is one of the most progressive candidates who has held the same stance on issues that many of the other candidates have had to adopt, there is a level of hatred against him that I see hurting his chances in the general election. I was a Bernie supporter in 2016, worked for his campaign and ultimately, when he didn't win the Primary I supported Hillary in the general election. I think too many people believed in the myth that Bernie supporters voting for Trump changed the outcome of the election. I think the 2016 primary was too bitter that some people, some even here at DU, will never get over it.

Even today as Bernie successfully won over the viewers of Fox and has published his tax returns, the onslaught against him continues. They say "Well, he still shouldn't have gone on there." or "Well, it's about damn time he returned his tax returns" or "SEE! He's a ONE PERCENTER!!11!!1". These people need to get over it and eat their damn crow. He's a true progressive liberal talking the talk and walking the walk.

I don't favor Bernie this primary, but I still believe in him. I think he is a great candidate and if he wins the primary, you damn well bet he will get my support. I hope the haters choose him over Trump.

[artislife]

1. I caucused for him last time

but I think he and a few others are too old for this election.

That is why I am pretty keen on Inslee at the moment.

[watoos]

2. Another Bernie bashing thread?

I love Bernie but he can't win because there are too many articles bashing Bernie?

Sorry but that's the way I take it, if I am wrong I apologize.

[berni_mccoy]

5. Just reflecting on the attacks against him that persist here.

It's simply ridiculous the he gets so much negativity.

[BlueFlorida]

8. Maybe he shouldn't have hired

Nina Turner, David Sirota and Brihana Joy Gray?

Don't you think that was a massive error in judgment?

We remember what those people did and would be sympathetic to Bernie if he had thrown them under the bus instead of exalting them.

[Autumn]

19. I felt that way when Hillary hired Brock. I got over it and was happy to vote for her.

I don't have to like him and I never will. When Hillary comes up I never use him to trash her judgment and loyalty. Politicians hire who they think will help them with some aspect of their campaigns.

[MrsCoffee]

11. Reap what you sow.

He has been extremely negative about my Party. The party he always refuses to join until it benefits him.

[floppyboo]

38. You should watch his FOX townhall. Very strong for the party! nt

[MrsCoffee]

41. Yeah, no. I don't watch Fox.

[Hortensis]

25. Attacks here mean nothing to the electorate, who don't

know this forum exists.

Since Bernie followers seem pretty devoted, and we can only choose one candidate at a time, not one candidate 50 times, it's likely that his 8% support on this forum is actually pretty accurate measure of those DUers who do support him.

And the lack of support expressed by others merely an indication of how a large majority here feel about him.

Don't worry about it. What you need to worry about is his support among the electorate and whether the U.S. and Russian media could be providing an inflated impression.

[berni_mccoy]

10. Also, just look at the responses below. It's clear the thread is not

perceived as a Bernie bashing thread by those who like to bash him.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

3. Same fear for those who like Biden, or anyone else

Got to stop eating our own

[Trenzalore]

4. Where is there evidence he won over Fox News viewers

If you are talking about the audience at the town hall, I know people that were there and given tickets and they were mainly 2016 supporters of his campaign.

[BlueFlorida]

7. It is typical hyperbole we expect

from that camp.

[R B Garr]

9. Thank you. It was so obvious about that audience. nt

[Trenzalore]

12. Why would Bernie let Fox pick the audience?

This isn't his first rodeo

[R B Garr]

18. Exactly, and it fits the hyperbole we see to this day about him.

Endless exaggerations get really old and transparent.

[lapucelle]

31. Funny how there were complaints about the CNN audience.

[berni_mccoy]

13. Thanks for proving the point that people who defend Bernie have go to the Nth degree

[Trenzalore]

16. I commend him for going on Fox News

I think it is silly to believe there is about to be an awakening

[LanternWaste]

36. Fun to pretend Sanders alone is held accountable

Though rather biased in its implicit premise, and no offer of objective or measurable evidence to support it, but yeah... fun!

[floppyboo]

40. That's funny! And Bernie got Fox to censor Fox to all Trumpers too!

There were, what, 150 people in the studio audience? They didn't air this just for them.
Face it - they did it for their ratings. And if they thought that their audience would get all wet and jiggly watching Bernie supporters, if this really was a love fest, so much the better for the Democratic Party.

[Trenzalore]

49. They ran it off of primetime

I am assuming most Trumpers turned the dial til Tucker was on. He got a lot of socialist to watch Fox news for an hour.

[BlueFlorida]

6. Bernie Sanders is not electable.

He has zero chance of winning the primary and even less of a chance of winning the GE.

[WeekiWater]

14. There is no doubt he is polarizing.

It’s who he is as a person and the people he surrounds himself with. There is no doubt he isn’t a good person to be in the general. We have some great choices and I don’t see him getting there. He would get my vote in the general. My efforts would go toward down ticket Democrats. No worries, that alone will help him. It’s something we all must do. He will have no coattails.

[PDittie]

15. It's too early

to be worried about Bernie Derangement Syndrome.

Then again ... maybe not.

Link to tweet

[Amimnoch]

17. One reaps what one sows.

Nobody just suddenly woke up and decided to be against him.

His attacks against the party and our candidates..
His refusal to condemn or decry the attacks of his surrogates and persons within his campaign that attack the party and our candidates..

He brought it on himself. I don't doubt for 1 second that if he does manage to bully his way into being our candidate, Cheetolini will have 4 more years. he may have brought new blood to the party, and yes, that is a GREAT thing, but his attacks and rhetoric have lost him a large swath of actual and historical voters who believe in the party he repeatedly attacked.

I very bitterly recall being told.. MANY times.. that we can't win without the people he's bringing on.

Well, now it's my turn. He can't win without us.

[dubyadiprecession]

20. If he's not a "Democrat" then...

Why aren’t we allowed to criticize him on DU????
A post of mine was deleted after I called him a pariah.
I believe he calls himself a “Democratic Socialist “.
Since when did the “Democratic Party” become the “Democratic Socialist party” ??

[TwilightZone]

21. The rule includes anyone who aligns with the Dems.

That includes Bernie, since he caucuses with the Dems and runs as a Dem in presidential primaries.

From the rule re: not bashing Democratic candidates:

"This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders)."

[berni_mccoy]

23. According to DU, he is a Democrat for all intents and purposes.

He is running in the Democratic Primary.

If he weren't and was running as an independent candidate, he would be fair game.

[Snotcicles]

22. Nobody knows better what Bernie is up against than Bernie himself.

As long as he is in it I'm in it with him.

[Blue_Tires]

24. Well I don't believe in him

He's had three goddamn years to win me back over to his side and if anything he's pushed me farther away.

And don't get me started on the insanity of letting him run without even being a member of the party... Nothing but plain old-fashioned extortion.

[lsewpershad]

26. Bot trolls

Not going to work this time.

[Hortensis]

27. Berni, 26M Americans watched Sanders sit quietly while his supporters

at the Democratic national convention yelled "lock her up," furious because a large majority of Democrats chose her. But that shocking behavior only pleased the Republicans and people from other anti-Democratic factions.

Their legacy is what Sanders' unrepentant followers should fear.

[radical noodle]

28. Here's the thing

He has never done a thing to mitigate that perception of him. His supporters opening supported Stein, and he not only failed to call them out, but he's also hired them as advisors this time. Remember when Bernie supporters claimed it was all up to Hillary to bring them into the fold? Now it's his time and he's squandered his opportunity.

[Skidmore]

42. +1 nt

[lunamagica]

29. Why are you not supporting him tis time

[berni_mccoy]

30. Because Inslee seems like a better candidate to me.

Inslee also has walked the walk and talked it. He has not only put together a progressive agenda but has implemented it as Governor of Washington. I see both him and Bernie as Visionaries who fight for the people. I see Inslee as someone who has gone a bit further in making them happen as a matter of policy.

[lunamagica]

37. Sounds good. I must give Inslee a closer look

[billpolonsky]

32. Then there is this....

"But stopping Mr. Sanders, or at least preventing a contentious convention, could prove difficult for Democrats.

He has enormous financial advantages — already substantially outraising his Democratic rivals — that can sustain a major campaign through the primaries. And he is well positioned to benefit from a historically large field of candidates that would splinter the vote: If he wins a substantial number of primaries and caucuses and comes in second in others, thanks to his deeply loyal base of voters across many states, he would pick up formidable numbers of delegates.

To a not-insignificant number of Democrats, of course, Mr. Sanders’s populist agenda is exactly what the country needs. And he has proved his mettle, having emerged from the margins to mount a surprisingly strong challenge to Hillary Clinton, earning 13 million votes and capturing 23 primaries or caucuses.

His strength on the left gives him a real prospect of winning the Democratic nomination and could make him competitive for the presidency if his economic justice message, resonates in the Midwest much as Mr. Trump’s appeals to hard-edge nationalism did in 2016. And for many Sanders supporters, the anxieties of establishment Democrats are not a concern.

That prospect is spooking establishment-aligned Democrats, some of whom are worried that his nomination could lure a third-party centrist into the field. And it is also creating tensions about what, if anything, should be done to halt Mr. Sanders."



[link:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html|

[billpolonsky]

33. I like this rant post from Splinter

I'll just leave this here

[link:https://splinternews.com/im-going-to-have-a-rage-stroke-over-this-story-about-de-1834076284|

[question everything]

34. Defending someone who is not a Demcorat? Never been a Democrat?

Has actively campaigned against Democratic candidates and, therefore, is mocking us?

What is there to defend?

He "succeeded." His ideas from 2016 are now shared by other candidates. Let's not forget that he may have causes us the elections in 2016 by using the same theme as Trump - "the forgotten people" - and, therefore, many of his supporters either stayed home or voted for what, then, appeared the next best thing.


Yes, I emphasize may. We will never know but it is possible.

[berni_mccoy]

44. You missed the memo. He's a Democrat running in the Democratic primary

This is why we can’t have nice things.

[question everything]

46. The two senators from Vermont

Leahy, Patrick J. - (D - VT)
Class III
437 Russell Senate Office Building Washington DC 20510
[phone]
Contact: www.leahy.senate.gov/contact/

Sanders, Bernard - (I - VT)
Class I
332 Dirksen Senate Office Building Washington DC 20510
[phone]
Contact: www.sanders.senate.gov/contact/

[wasupaloopa]

35. Excuse me, are we no longer in America? Can we no longer

critique our politicians?

Why does Bernie get a pass just because he has progressive ideas.

I don’t think he has the stuff to be president.

[blueinredohio]

39. I'm undecided at the moment but

I don't pay attention to all the negative things posted about any democrats running for president. I feel I'm smart enough to figure it out myself. When a negative post is on D.U. I think of it as a troll.

[customerserviceguy]

43. The nightmare scenario is

Bernie comes to the convention with the greatest number of delegates, but still not enough for a first ballot victory. Then, in round two, the superdelegates back someone else, and even are instrumental in persuading delegates for minor candidates to come along, and that other candidate gets the nomination.

[Gothmog]

45. No one took sanders seriously in 2016 and so sanders was not vetted

No one took sanders seriously and so he was not vetted. Vetting is important I amso glad that sanders is being vetted this cycle https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/28/why-bernie-sanders-has-an-uphill-climb-ahead/?utm_term=.1b4f90c2a717

Finally, what happens when the oppo dump on Sanders comes? We have no idea, because it never happened in 2016. Clinton was so terrified of alienating his supporters and seeing them vote for Jill Stein in the general election (or not vote at all) that she tiptoed around him for pretty much the entirety of the primary campaign. That doesn’t mean that he’ll be destroyed when stories about the more colorful aspects of his history start cropping up, but there’s just no way to know.

Which is what we could say about the Sanders candidacy as a whole: There’s no way to know how it’s going to go. But he’s got his work cut out for him.

See also https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/bernie-sanders-2020-campaign-donald-trump/index.html?utm_source=twCNNp&utm_content=2019-02-20T14%3A52%3A07&utm_term=image&utm_medium=social%C2%A0

2. How will he withstand more scrutiny and more attacks?
One of the secrets to Sanders' success in 2016 was that no one -- most especially Clinton -- thought he had any chance of going anywhere in the race. Clinton largely ignored him for the better part of 2015, allowing some problematic parts of Sanders' record for Democrats -- most notably his voting record on guns -- to go unnoticed. (When the race began to tighten, Clinton gently prodded Sanders on guns and health care.) Sanders, too, largely flew under the radar of investigative reporters for major news outlets who were busy looking into Clinton, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and others seen as more viable candidates. (That reality clearly benefited Donald Trump in the early days of the campaign, as well.)

Sanders will get no pass -- from either the media or his fellow candidates -- this time around. He is among the frontrunners -- and will be treated as such. His wife's time as president of Burlington College could well come up. And his opponents will do a deep dive into his nearly 30 years of votes as a member of the House and Senate. This is all very normal stuff in a campaign. But not for Sanders.

Now we can see how sanders reacts to being vetted

Link to tweet

Among some Democrats, there was a sense of bewilderment that the Sanders campaign had gone—as one operative put it—”nuclear” over a mere web video. One Democratic consultant sympathetic to Sanders described the video as being “like a gnat buzzing around your ear,” one which should not have distracted from the candidate’s Midwest tour.

It also raised questions as to whether the senator was ready for the scrutiny that would come from being a frontrunning candidate, after having run as an insurgent against an ideal foil, Hillary Clinton, in 2016.

“When you’re leading in the polls of president of your party you should expect investigative stories to hit at least once a week and to be attacked by your opponents every day,” said Ben Labolt, who served as press secretary to Barack Obama during the 2012 campaign. “An attack on something like ThinkProgress is the sign of a super-narrow-minded campaign that isn’t actually thinking of how the election will be won... They have chosen an establishment force that no one outside of the Starbucks at 16th and K would recognize.”

I am glad that sanders is being vetted

[SMC22307]

47. EVERY Democratic candidate is going to be attacked.

Have we learned nothing from Gore? Dean? Kerry? Hillary? Opposition will seize on ANY perceived weakness and attack. We gotta be prepared to fight back regardless of who ends up on the ticket and yes, that means Bernie haters need to suck up and deal.

[ecstatic]

48. I think we'll all hold our noses and vote for him if he's the nominee. It's just that

I want the next president to be smart, prepared and able to carry out the duties of office without drama. I can see Bernie's admin being just as chaotic and unprepared as trump's--just look at his current hires. Nothing but clowns on his team.