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Undecided 44%
Elizabeth Warren22%
Joe Biden14%
Bernie Sanders8%
Pete Buttigieg6%

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:12 AM

 

Question: How can it be verified that a tax return published on a website is

an actual, unedited copy of the one sent to the IRS? Wouldn't they have to be notarized by the IRS?

Just curious how that works.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

56 replies, 1400 views

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Arrow 56 replies Author Time Post
Reply Question: How can it be verified that a tax return published on a website is (Original post)
mobeau69 Apr 2019 OP
WeekiWater Apr 2019 #1
question everything Apr 2019 #21
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #27
MelissaB Apr 2019 #52
Cha Apr 2019 #53
MythosMaster Apr 2019 #2
Snotcicles Apr 2019 #4
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #5
Iggo Apr 2019 #17
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #24
Iggo Apr 2019 #46
aidbo Apr 2019 #54
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #55
MythosMaster Apr 2019 #56
SFnomad Apr 2019 #3
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #6
SFnomad Apr 2019 #7
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #8
SFnomad Apr 2019 #9
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #10
SFnomad Apr 2019 #11
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #12
SFnomad Apr 2019 #13
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #19
SFnomad Apr 2019 #28
BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #33
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #47
George II Apr 2019 #14
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #22
artislife Apr 2019 #15
brooklynite Apr 2019 #16
LAS14 Apr 2019 #18
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #26
SFnomad Apr 2019 #29
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #25
question everything Apr 2019 #20
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #23
Lefta Dissenter Apr 2019 #30
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #31
BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #34
Lefta Dissenter Apr 2019 #36
BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #38
NurseJackie Apr 2019 #40
BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #41
NurseJackie Apr 2019 #42
BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #43
NurseJackie Apr 2019 #44
BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #45
Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2019 #35
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #48
Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2019 #49
mobeau69 Apr 2019 #51
BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #32
KayF Apr 2019 #37
BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #39
Autumn Apr 2019 #50

Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:14 AM

1. Depending on the individual...

 

Thousands of educated people scour through every detail of the returns. At some point there has to be a small amount of trust. Questioning everything leaves one believing in nothing.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to WeekiWater (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:24 PM

21. Hey!

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Amy Klobuchar

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Response to question everything (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:43 PM

27. Now that's funny!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to question everything (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:30 PM

52. Why do we not have DUzys anymore?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to question everything (Reply #21)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 05:59 AM

53. lol.. I finally got

 

that!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:15 AM

2. Did trump finally release his taxes?

 

I have not been paying attention to radio news for a while.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to MythosMaster (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:17 AM

4. Lol. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to MythosMaster (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:20 AM

5. Congress will be getting his copies direct from the IRS.

 

No way they would accept his word that he was giving them the same thing filed with the IRS.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to MythosMaster (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:01 PM

17. LOL @ people being more anti-Sanders than anti-GOP.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Iggo (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:35 PM

24. That's funny that you'd automatically assume I was being anti-Sanders.

 

I could care less about Bernie and his taxes. I know there have been literally hundreds of posts about them but not one was ever authored by me.

And someone in this thread was calling me paranoid!


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #24)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:12 PM

46. The more you deny it...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:24 AM

54. Then why did you post this in the primary side? If this was about trump, it should be in GD.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to aidbo (Reply #54)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 01:26 PM

55. Now that's a good question!

 

The answer is I screwed up. Thanks for pointing that out.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to Iggo (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 24, 2019, 02:31 PM

56. Sad isn't it

 

I have been avoiding those thread post. Bickering Bickersons.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:17 AM

3. Who gets their tax returns notarized? At best, if you have a preparer, they sign it as well

 

How could someone notarize it unless they were there when you prepared it and sent it in?

Typically a notary is there to say, yes, you're the person who you say you are, when you signed a document. They're typically nothing more than a witness ... they're not a fact checking service.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:24 AM

6. How can you be 100% sure that what you're looking at is an

 

actual copy of the exact forms you filed with the IRS?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:26 AM

7. Isn't that what I just said? n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:36 AM

8. My bad, I should have wrote certified instead of notarized.

 

Are the copies certified and who else could do the certification but the IRS?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:42 AM

9. Again, who could certify it except someone who was there the moment you sent it to the IRS?

 

The IRS isn't going to release copies to the public.

All we can do is go over what they give us and try to find inconsistencies. Changes in typeface or font. Pages that appear to be incomplete or missing. Numbers that don't add up. And that kind of investigative type work is done by experts. I'm certain every candidate that has released tax documents have been subjected to that minimum level of scrutiny.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:46 AM

10. who could certify it except someone who was there the moment you sent it to the IRS?

 

The IRS could.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #10)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:48 AM

11. The IRS legally cannot, they cannot release anything to the public n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 12:01 PM

12. I understand that.

 

But couldn't they release a certified copy to the individual who filed them if requested by that individual?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #12)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 12:12 PM

13. I've never heard of such a thing, but that of course doesn't mean it doesn't exist

 

But I would expect it doesn't exist. Why should it?

I really don't understand where this level of paranoia is coming from. We're having enough trouble just getting some people to release their taxes, trying to make it even more difficult would seem to be an easy way for candidates to feign issues with being able to supply them and using the IRS as the fall guys. And the system we currently have seems to be more than adequate.

If a candidate were to supply tax returns and they turn out to be fakes, that would probably end their candidacy ... a huge incentive to be honest. Just look at what happened to BS when he only supplied his 2 summary pages for that one year (I believe 2014) ... he was rightly criticized and finally, after lots of badgering, finally released the entire return.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to SFnomad (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:21 PM

19. Form 4506

 

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506.pdf

$50.00 fee.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:45 PM

28. It's not a certified copy. I have no idea why you're beating this horse ... but enjoy yourself n/t

 

Last edited Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:22 PM - Edit history (1)

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:21 PM

33. You can only get your OWN return that way

 

not a third party's.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BlueFlorida (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:42 PM

47. Correct, wasn't asking about a third party's though.

 

You can request yours to be sent directly to a third party on the form.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:29 PM

14. One way of telling if it's genuine or unedited is if all pages are the same format and....

 

....the size and font of numerical entries are all the same.

If not.....
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to George II (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:24 PM

22. Thanks but I guess I wasn't clear about what I was asking.

 

However, even with forensic accounting you'd need the original for comparison.

Form 4506 and $50.00 will get it.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506.pdf


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:31 PM

15. What next? Birth Certificate questions?

 

Crazy town.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:54 PM

16. It doesn't "work"

 

You prepare a tax submission. You make it public. People accept its veracity or they don't.

Are you demanding a "long form" tax filing?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:08 PM

18. mobeau69 is just asking a question, as far as I can tell. Why...

 

...cast the OP in a negative light?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:40 PM

26. FYI

 

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506.pdf

$50.00

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:47 PM

29. No, they're not just asking a question. They're beating this into the ground for no apparent

 

reason or gain.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:37 PM

25. Found it!

 

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506.pdf



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:23 PM

20. If someone "self prepares" - like Sanders, you can wonder

 

but others who had them prepared by CPA's - like Klobuchar - where the official letter is included in all 70 pages, you know it is true.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Amy Klobuchar

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Response to question everything (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:27 PM

23. If it was rump, I'd still question it.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 03:59 PM

30. 4506-T

 

Doesnít cost the $50, and provides a transcript of the income tax return so you can see if the numbers shown on the published return match those reported to the IRS. I donít know if the transcripts include all of the schedules, however.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Lefta Dissenter (Reply #30)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:03 PM

31. Thanks a lot.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to Lefta Dissenter (Reply #30)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:22 PM

34. You can only get your OWN return that way

 

Not someone else's.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BlueFlorida (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:33 PM

36. Right,

 

Or have it assigned. But if I published my returns and wanted people to be able to verify that I was being honest in what I published, Iíd get the transcript requested right away - to be sent to the New York Times, perhaps.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Lefta Dissenter (Reply #36)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:48 PM

38. There are enough irregularties

 

in self-prepared returns to make one's head spin and such people are not likely to get the transcript for the NY Times.

Changes in font,
randomly inserted scanned pages,
the amounts on some pages in dollars and cents (when the software should have rounded off to whole dollars),
foreign bank account in one year but not the previous,
no bank interest reported in one year but is reported in previous and subsequent years,
some pages with only one spouse's name and SS# (when the software would have put BOTH in a joint return),
Form 8949 with redacted description of the asset that was disposed off (Amazon stock maybe?),
no dividends reported whatsoever (most people have some dividend income and especially if they are well-to-do.)

There are a lot of tell-tale signs of inauthenticity.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BlueFlorida (Reply #38)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:04 PM

40. "There are a lot of tell-tale signs of inauthenticity." --- I'm glad people are noticing...

 

There are a lot of tell-tale signs of inauthenticity.
I'm glad people are noticing and starting to take a closer look. It's naive to think that after all this time, after all the delays and excuses, that people wouldn't be even MORE interested now than they would have been 2 or 3 years ago.

I'm just saying that the behavior all along raised red flags and people started to ask "what's going on?" and "what's motivating this secret and evasive behavior?"

Now people are starting to notice discrepancies that are inconsistent with how things would have been if these were the full original tax returns AS they were originally submitted to the IRS.

Personally speaking, I think the mystery foreign bank account and the no-bank-interest being reported is a big concern to me. What's going on with that? I'm very grateful that people with more experience than I have are taking a very close and critical look.

I think that the American people deserve complete transparency and honesty in matters like this. We need to get to the bottom of this and find out exactly what's going on before it's too late.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #40)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:07 PM

41. There is also an income discrepancy

 

One spouse's severance pay and another spouse's salary would have made the income far more than reported. There could be another explanation for it but it needs to be asked.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to BlueFlorida (Reply #41)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 05:20 PM

42. BS has certainly opened the door himself to this type of scrutiny (and criticism).

 

BS has certainly opened the door himself to this type of scrutiny (and criticism). I think it's perfectly fair and legitimate to be asking these types of questions when it comes to facts and figures that are ALREADY in the public arena and have been reported on.

Personally, I'm not at all convinced that this is all there is, or that these are the full and original returns AS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED to the IRS. It just looks like there's something funny going on and the American people deserve clarification. We need honest answers.

I, for one, am glad that the hard questions are being asked.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #42)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:13 PM

43. The good thing is that there are

 

experts from at least 10 campaigns looking at those very things and waiting for the right moment to pounce.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to BlueFlorida (Reply #43)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:22 PM

44. Are you including the GOP and Russia? If (ha!) he were the nominee, you know...

 

Are you including the GOP and Russia? If (ha!) he were the nominee, you know they would be very eager to reveal what they know and to revisit the speeches, interviews and writings of our party's nominee.... no matter who he (or she) may be.

I just think that all things considered, we need to have a squeaky clean nominee. When it comes to BS, I think we can do better than him as a party and as a nation. I just don't think he's qualified, and he doesn't have the demeanor or personality to make an effective leader.

We have an abundance of DEMOCRATIC talent to choose from this time around... why go backward? Why look to the past?

I support Democrats only.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #44)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:26 PM

45. I'm sure Trump is reading the essays nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Lefta Dissenter (Reply #30)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:29 PM

35. Yep, we use them in mortgage underwriting.

 

A 4506t is signed as part of the loan application.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #35)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:01 PM

48. Do you require it to be sent directly to you from the IRS or

 

does something like a sealed copy form the IRS and provided to you by the entity requesting the loan acceptable?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #48)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:08 PM

49. We get it directly from the irs

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #49)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:22 PM

51. Thanks. That's what I suspected.

 

I'm familiar with certification used in the foundry/manufacturing business and traceability and certification are time consuming but essential elements. Entities like the DOD don't just take the manufacturers word that a casting is made from a particular alloy just because they claim it is.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Pete Buttigieg

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:19 PM

32. One cannot verify it unless the taxpayer consents

 

and authorizes the IRS to release the original returns.

Tax returns are considered to be prima facie privileged information.

One way lawyers get around it is by serving a subpoena on a bank that has made a loan to that entity or individual and since banks require tax returns, one gets to verify.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:35 PM

37. good question imho

 

my guess is that it would be very difficult to fake. These candidates all file financial disclosure statements, and if the tax return was faked, reporters could find discrepancies.

Also, if tax returns could be faked, Trump would have done it long ago.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to KayF (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 04:51 PM

39. See post #38

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:21 PM

50. Contact the Wall Street Journal maybe? They had an expert go over Beto's returns and

 

found errors that his accounting firm will fix. Maybe they will go over Bernie's. I first read it on WP but I'm out of free articles.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/article229318389.html
Democratic presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke says he'll amend "as appropriate" federal tax returns from 2013 and 2014, when he may have underpaid around $4,000 because of incorrectly deducted medical expenses.

O'Rourke late Monday released 10 years of returns filed by himself and his wife, Amy, through 2017. The ex-congressman promised to release 2018 returns as soon as they're filed.

The incorrectly reported deductions were first reported by The Wall Street Journal, which had a tax professional review O'Rourke's returns. The review spotted that O'Rourke deducted almost $16,000 worth of medical expenses when he should only have deducted 10 percent of income.

A campaign spokesman said Tuesday that "after becoming aware of this error, the accounting firm that prepared the filings was immediately informed and will file an amendment as appropriate."


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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