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Undecided 44%
Elizabeth Warren21%
Joe Biden14%
Bernie Sanders8%
Pete Buttigieg6%

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:23 AM

 

Felonies ain't felonies

Felonies are not homogeneous. One class of felonies are capital offences, a distinction that the law and society has always made crystal clear, for obvious reasons. That those lawfully and properly convicted have lost their right to vote is something the founding fathers would have accepted without question. If, as a matter of law, someone has lost their right to life itself, they have certainly have lost their right to vote.

Senator Sanders is wrong. There is no Ďslippery slopeí in making a special case of capital offenders, it is the clearest line in criminal justice.

EDIT: I think advocating votes for inmates is some of the stupidest politics ever, but accept some would on stand on principle. Fine, but itís not a legal principle. If, as I said, as a matter of law, someone has lost their right to life itself, they have certainly have lost their right to vote.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:27 AM

1. I would think that reintegrating felons back into society after release

 

should be a much higher priority than letting them vote while still in jail.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:33 AM

2. I agree.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:40 AM

7. in terms of priorities, absolutely.

 

and in terms of politics, it's most likely a losing issue either way; but yes, people are much more likely to support restoring voting rights to people who have fully served their time rather than those who are still in prison, even though it remains an abomination for a government to take away anyone's right to vote.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to unblock (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 11:30 AM

11. I'm talking about a lot more than restoring voting rights when

 

I say reintegrating into society. Things like job training and employment programs so they don't have to go back to crime to survive.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 11:41 AM

12. yes. our criminal "justice" system is messed up in many, many ways.

 

in many ways, our prison system is crime college. whatever you were went you went in, while there you are basically taught to be violent (subject to certain rules), you are taught a trade, you make contacts, and then after release you find that a law-abiding life has been made an unusually difficult one for you.

people go on and on about how "rotten" people are for committing crimes even after serving time, but they forget, or don't realize, that that's what we trained them to do.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:56 AM

9. Yes. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:37 AM

3. "We have capital punishment, what's losing the right to vote compared to that?"

 

What a novel argument.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:39 AM

6. And a compelling one.

 

Sanders excuse for Boston Bomber votes was the slippery slope. Capital offences are the tightest legal distinction there is.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Elizabeth Warren

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Response to crazytown (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:42 AM

8. Too bad they're so poorly processed.

 

I agree, though -- Sanders is terrible at explaining himself, especially when he feels like there's a "gotcha" hiding somewhere that he can't find, and the issue is a shitty one for campaign politics. I do support voting rights for people who are incarcerated, though.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:38 AM

4. the founders had a few great ideas, but they also got a number of things very wrong.

 

particularly around voting rights, such as, not guaranteeing the right of women to vote, and not guaranteeing the right of slaves to vote (as just one of many problems with allowing slavery to exist in the first place)....

yes, of course the founders would have been fine with disenfranchisement, they were fine with denying the vote to a majority of the people already anyway. the founders are usually a good place to look for statesman-like wisdom, but on this topic, they're not a good source of compelling arguments.


fact is, there really are no good reasons to deny the vote to people on the basis of being incarcerated. what good could it possibly do? it's not going to deter anyone ever. if the threat of imprisonment isn't enough to deter a criminal, the further threat of losing the right to vote certainly isn't going to deter them.

but there are many, many horrible reasons for it, key among them, giving everyone in the legislative, judicial, and law enforcement process an incentive to discriminate in laws and enforcement.


and how is the nature of the crime relevant to voting? whether or not the penalty is 11 months vs. 13 months? or whether the penalty is life in prison vs. death? how is that relevant to voting?

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:38 AM

5. While I agree that all incarcerated persons should vote.

 

Itís just stupid as a stand alone topic and will do nothing but hurt us. Iím no fool. It is a part of a much larger debate that requires comprehensive reform. Even at that point, itís something that would to be put forward as an amendment to comprehensive reform. BS is clearly struggling.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 11:16 AM

10. I Think This Issue Alone Disqualifies Bernie--It Is Just Off-The-Wall Idiocy!

 

I surely agree that ALL former felons who have fully paid their debt to society should have their voting rights restored, but NOT the incarcerated. That is a step too far and will not be tolerated by the voting public.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Pete Buttigieg

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 11:45 AM

13. So what we really need is to restore the death penalty nationwide.

 

I expect Warren will get right on that in her State of record.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 11:59 AM

14. Citizens should have the right to vote, whether they're incarcerated or not. NT

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Bernie Sanders

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Response to crazytown (Original post)

Thu Apr 25, 2019, 12:13 PM

15. I believe all felons should have the right to vote

 

regardless of their crime, even the Dylan Roofs and Tsarnaevs (too lazy to look up the spelling) of this world.

That said, what a stupid, losing argument to make. When your position is almost universally derided at a progressive place like DU then itís probably safe to say itís a view that probably doesnít need to be discussed in public.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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