My gripe with Biden: he's the Safe choice.

[backscatter712]

Don't be wrong. Joe Biden is a good and decent man. I don't agree with everything he did in his career - he needs to be educated on some issues (like what women have to deal with in terms of sexual harassment, for example.)

My biggest gripe is that he's the safe choice, because that actually makes it harder for him to win the election.

Michael Dukakis was a safe choice.
Al Gore was a safe choice.
John Kerry was a safe choice.

And they didn't win (or they let their elections get close enough to steal.)

They were uninspiring, dull, and hard for a lot of people to identify with.

This is just my opinion but we need a candidate with some fire. Barack Obama has fire. Even if you can't stand Bernie Sanders, you've got to admit he's got fire.

That's my gripe. If Biden wants to win this, he needs to show us some fire, and not play it safe.

[BlueFlorida]

1. Michael Dukakis and Kerry were not "safe choices"

and

more importantly

times are different.

[crazytown]

32. 2004. If Kerry was not a safe choice

who was safer?

2020. If Biden is not a safe choice, who is safer?

In Primaries, safe is a relative term. Every choice carries risks.

[karynnj]

33. Dukakis was not even a DC insider!

As to Kerry, he had a stronger activist background than any viable candidate in my life time. From Vietnam to fighting the Contras drug and gun running to fighting BCCI, he had a history that never made him a "safe choice". In addition, he was not the party favorite in either of his first two successful elections - for Lt Governor or Senator -he beat the overwhelming favorite both times.

In 2004, had there been enough voting machines in Ohio, he would have pulled off a stunning defeat of a war time President, who was at 60% the year before election. There are models that estimate the likelihood for an incumbent to win election. The actual shows that Kerry made a noncompetitive race competitive. Not to mention, his choice of Obama gave him a platform that gave him a leg up to win 2008.

[WeekiWater]

2. "(like what women have to deal with in terms of sexual harassment, for example.)"

This is why there was such backlash with the recent attacks against Biden. He is one of the best in this area. Truly one of the best. It's one of his top issues and priorities. It's the whole cornerstone of his robust Foundation.

[Cha]

47. Thank You!

Also.. pardon my asking.. but, didn't you change from Elizabeth to Biden?

[WeekiWater]

48. I'm not all that happy with myself.

I changed from Harris to Biden. I was completely in Warrens corner until she put additional restrictions on her fundraising efforts. That should be done through campaign finance reform.

I told myself I would only vote for a woman in the primaries. Grrrr

[Cha]

52. Thanks. I changed

from Harris to Biden(in solidarity) when the attacks came from those who wanted him to not run.

It's not about anything for me except to Win.. and I really do like Biden. I'm still interested in most of the candidates and appreciate that they are running.

[leftofcool]

3. Joe is not my first choice but he has plenty of fire

Joe has fire without all the anger issues.

[Shell_Seas]

4. What if none of it mattered? What if Comrade Cheeto cheats? What if Russia hacks us?

Not to be Debbie Downer, but I'm worried that at the end of the day, we will all be f#$%ed anyway.

[PoliticAverse]

5. Will 2020 be the try something very different or go back to safe election year? n/t

[Demsrule86]

7. We need to win period. Biden gives us our best chance.

[OhZone]

6. Right now -

I find a safe choice very , very exciting.

A good contrast to the insane, corrupt, traitorous, chaotic, unstable, lying criminal.

[Demsrule86]

9. Agree.

[DownriverDem]

10. Many folks don't get it.

We want normalcy. We want to win.

[marylandblue]

41. We get it. A lot of people liked the old ways. But "normalcy" is not coming back ever.

The world has changed. Trump is a symptom of the change, not a cause. This is really about what you want the new normal to look like. I don't think it looks like Biden and I sure as hell don't want it to look like Trump.

[DownriverDem]

8. Not Really

Biden/Harris would be a formidable ticket.

[yaesu]

11. I think its more about feeling safe as he is trusted, level headed & exactly the opposite of tRump.

[unblock]

12. no one is "safe", really; but the idea is to match the candidate to the times.

the best candidate (not necessarily the one who would make the best president) is the one who captures the mood of the nation at the time.

in times of crisis and confusion and chaos, a by the book, steady hand could be very attractive, even if that same candidate might seem "boring" in times of stagnancy.


donald fraud is obviously going to continue to hold the "interesting" and "attention-seeking" side of the spectrum along with a lot of the votes of people looking for that.

staking out ground as tried and true, return to normalcy, boring even, that's actually not a bad strategy at all for these times, even if it could be disastrous in other times.

[louis c]

13. All you have to show me are polls showing Warren beating Trump by more than Biden does in...

...Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin and I'll join your side.

But, Warren is barely 14% in Massachusetts in the primary polls, running third.

Warren has problems with just 2 constituencies: People who don't know her and people who do.

[Bradshaw3]

26. Ridiculous, again

Can you make a post without taking a shot at Warren? People who know her think a lot of her. And in case you forgot, Biden has run twice and lost. Polls don't mean a lot at this stage, and sometimes even in October as 2016 showed.

[louis c]

45. When I see a Warren sig criticizing or even questioning Biden...

..I'm not letting it go by.

Nobody in this country knows Warren better than Massachusetts residents. Probably no state in the union wants to beat Trump more than us, as our state rates Trump at the lowest end of the unfavorable ladder. We want to win and we know Warren, although a good Senator, will get clobbered in a national election.

As a result, she's at 14% in her home state. Fourteen percent. You can talk all you want about early polls don't mean anything, but I'm going to bet Biden is well above 14% in Delaware and Bernie is well above 14% in Vermont.

[Bradshaw3]

57. So your bashing is based on revenge?

For someone even questoning or criticizing Biden in a discussion forum? Wow.

You keep repeating your unprovable opinion that she will lose a national election as if it's fact. You don't know that. She has never run a national race, while Biden has run for president - twice- and lost twice. That's a fact. Polls and opinions are not facts. To say that she will "get clobbered" is to put it nicely absurd.

BTW, in the state where you claim nobody likes her, Warren won with 60 percent of the vote in her last election. Another fact. Try using them, they are much better than base emotions like revenge.

[louis c]

58. I have always supported Warren for Senator. I have no revenge towards her...

...it's making a factual point. She can't win the primary because every knowledgeable person knows that Trump will slaughter her in a general election.

I love Liz. I've worked on her Senatorial campaign out of my union hall,.I was a Warren delegate to the convention that helped clear the field for her in the primary (15% delegate threshold to appear on the state primary ballot 7 years ago. I helped make sure her opponent did not reach that threshold). Revenge? not at all. Pragmatism. She's wasting time and resources better spent in supporting another candidate. At 14% in Mass., a savvy politician would be reassessing, not doubling down.

[Bradshaw3]

59. "Every knowledgeable person knows"

Your "reasoning" is flawed to say the least. No, opinion is not a factual point, no matter how much you believe it.

[louis c]

60. Show me a poll that has her anywhere near a plausable candidate?

She's losing in Massachusetts and New Hampshire by a mile. If she can't win there, where can she win the nomination?

She's a good Senator. Policy minutiae is important there. But she is unqualified for an executive position: Mayor, Governor or President. She's a professor. She makes good Senator or UN Ambassador.

She does not connect with crowds. It's like being in class. People don't warm up to her. If Hillary couldn't beat Trump, a less likable version of Hillary is toast. Now, before you go off on a gender thing, I love Harris and she's my second choice. If Biden falters and Kamala is still in it, that's my candidate. Amy Klobucher really connects with audiences. Smart and crisp, without pandering. If Biden gets the nomination, I hope he picks Harris. She really helps the ticket in Florida. If Biden wins the nomination and he picks Klobucher for VP, that solidifies the mid-west. I prefer Harris. Warren would be an anchor and contribute nothing to the ticket. This election is all about winning, and Warren can't win either the primary, or, God forbid if she is nominated, the election or help the eventual nominee as a VP candidate.

[Siwsan]

14. Well, Joe Biden is my choice to keep us safe, so.......

I guess that does make him my "safe" choice.

[flamingdem]

15. Joe for the win

I think he'll bring it home for us. We do need young people on board and I hope he can attract them..

[emmaverybo]

30. College students are going for the older candidates

Why? They live resiliency and see that possibility in others. As we get older, we feel our restrictions, and see the possibility of decline in our aging fellows. But college students, only one youth demographic admittedly, live in a daily world where influencers, role models, mentors introducing them to new ideas, schooling them in history, imparting wisdom and encouragement, are often decades older than they are. By and large these mentors lean toward liberal values. College is a great inter generational microcosm. And it is college students who are getting re-engaged politically. At least among these potential voters,Biden’s age alone will not be an insurmountable barrier.

[flamingdem]

42. Interesting. I do see that boomers get along fairly well

with their children - my era was more about don't trust anyone over 30!

[rzemanfl]

54. Gotta wash socks. BBL. n/t

[Honeycombe8]

16. Dukakis was never a safe choice.

It was a perplexing choice from the start. I certainly didn't choose him.

I agree with you on Gore & Kerry, though. But we don't know if any other choice would have been better.

What someone describes as a safe choice is merely the choice by the majority of voting Democrats. A loss is a loss for a variety of reasons. It could be the Dem. candidate, or it could be the Republican candidate is just so charismatic to the Republicans. That's what happened to all of Obama's and Clinton's foes, Dem. & Republican alike.

Policy positions have little to do with it, IMO. They're all Democrats and hold, generally, the same views. They just differ on how to address the issues. It's iffy to vote for that, since people change plans all the time. Either they change their minds, or the plan they had in mind can't be passed, or the situation changes.

It's the force of personality. The charisma. The leadership. The personality. That's what Trump and George W Bush had, despite being incompetents. Obama, Bill Clinton.

Obama was moderate. Not as corporate-friendly as Biden, but still fairly moderate. But he was so special. He was irresistible, to me, anyway.

[floppyboo]

19. yes, but a good part of charisma is a resonnance with 'hopes and dreams'

I'm with you Honeycombe8

which is why an ol fart like Bernie is perceived as charismatic to so many, and falls flat with others.

'I just don't like him' is a worn refrain on this forum.

While its easy to pass that off as opinions of people who aren't really digging into problems facing society in any substantial way, I do believe it is deeper. They don't have problems.

For instance, just recently, many regular posters here admitted they had never even met their mayor! So, no town hall participation? No problems that need to be addressed? Everything is fine?

Well then, no wonder they don't find Bernie charismatic. No wonder he upsets them.

Very frustrating to hear such dismissals. If everything is fine, then say it is. Just say straight out all you want is to not rock the boat because you are doing fine. And stop repeating talking points of identity politics like the latest hair style or plot line from some daytime soap.

[seaglass]

55. Unfortunately DU limits what those who dislike Bernie can say about his character. So go ahead with

your assumptions that people who do not want Bernie as President have no hopes and dreams and everything is just fine.

[emmaverybo]

17. Stability now, revolution later

Americans are divided, anxious, shocked daily with Trump’s chaos and lawlessness. We need recovery time and a return to agreement on the democratic values that unite the majority, despite the barbaric hordes at the gate. They have always been there. But Trump and GOP gave them the key.
So far, Biden is the first among our candidates to make the appeal to transcendent values that form the bedrock for policy.
I felt safe under Obama’s leadership. When we feel unsafe, threatened, we are vulnerable to demagoguery.
Personally, unknown and unproven quantities, policies yet to have majority support, not where I want to invest.
And heart. We could use some warmth; we’ve seen he’s capable of fire too.

[floppyboo]

24. I couldn't disagree more

The impetus is here now for real change.
Rolling over and playing dead (or dreaming again) is a very dangerous posture.
Polls show there is an agreement on values, and that they are very forward looking.
A Green New Deal is needed NOW. No more slumping back into the lethargy of complacence.

[vsrazdem]

34. I agree. We can't go back to the status quo before Trump. That is how we got him in the first

place. We cannot start from the center any longer, as it always gets dragged to the right.

[robbedvoter]

18. Gore won, and I think Kerry did too. Close enough to steal is how close?

Is 3 million close?
Other than that, who says it's safe? Other white men?🔩 that!

[madaboutharry]

20. I don't agree with your assessment of Biden.

He is not my first choice, but I think if he ends up the nominee that he will be a great candidate and a great president.

"They were uninspiring, dull, and hard for a lot of people to identify with..."

I don't think Biden is any of these things. I find him the opposite.

[floppyboo]

25. Biden is the quintessential American from an outsiders eyes

Looks more America the Great of old than the MAGA in charge.

[peggysue2]

21. I assume you did not listen to the speech . . .

at the Electrical Worker's Union. Joe has fire in the belly, not merely to beat Trump but to steer the country back from the brink.

He's just getting started and today's official announcement was the shot across the bow. We're fighting for our survival. That alone should light a fire in everyone.

Joey Biden is on the move. Watch for it!

[cwydro]

36. This!

x1000.

[Cha]

50. Well said, Peggysue! Biden

and his campaign is very exciting to me.

Something about bringing back our Democracy excites the hell outta me!

[ancianita]

22. Know what's NOT safe? Democracy. Threats in/outside this country don't call for more risk.

Make your "safe" argument to our allies, or the millions Lizard has put out of
any insurance coverage.

Tell it to disaster victims still without help,
women and girls,
black communities,
immigrants,
Flint residents.

Tell it to those who suffer the multiplied threats to our national security, economy, food security and water over climate change,
not just the 4 out of 5 who live paycheck to paycheck in this country.

We don't need safe.

We need SOLID.

[LanternWaste]

23. Although the Appeal to Possibility is a swell rhetorical device...

...it is still a logical fallacy.

But of course, we may yet predicate our opinions and gripes on logical fallacies and stay fully within our rights.

[beachbum bob]

27. he is a winning choice and that is all that matters. No other candidate can actually

bring working class american voters back to the democratic party as they are turned off by the calls of all the free give aways and free handouts and why GOP made such huge gains with them over the past 25 years. Biden can offer policy issues that are continuation of Obama admin that trump/gop have wrecked.

[Hortensis]

28. Well buck up. Maybe he'll be "hillaried" and there'll

be no safe choice.

Serious question: Is a world where we don't play Russian roulette with the lives of 330,000,000 Americans even worth living in?

[walkingman]

29. I have'nt been following Biden but if he will embrace some progressive ideas and distance

himself from corporate America I think he might be a good choice. Just for perspective I am a huge fan of AOC but I realize that we absolutely have to win at all costs. I think the progressive movement might be more realistic a few steps at a time. Climate Change is on top of my list, healthcare reform next, followed by ending these meaningless wars, and real immigration reform with a valid guest worker program.

I am sick and tired of these lily white assholes destroying my plant so they can stuff their pockets at the expense of working people.

[Demit]

35. Pretty sure he's exactly who corporate America wants.

He's getting the backing of all the big money boyz. David Cohen of Comcast is the host for the big fundraiser tonight. And the guy who runs the law firm that helps employers fight back against unions. He calls himself Middle Class Joe but he's always backed policies that favor corporations.

[Eko]

39. Maybe, maybe not.

"Vice President Joe Biden joined New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo at a media event in New York City on Thursday. They were there to celebrate the state’s newly minted $15 hourly minimum wage for fast-food restaurants, which will phase in over the next few years. Mr. Biden, who is weighing a run for the White House, seems to be courting organized labor just in case. Taking the stage, he praised the minimum wage as “smart” and “reasonable.”"
https://www.epionline.org/oped/joe-biden-and-the-15-question/
That was in 2015.

[walkingman]

49. I understand that it will take $$$ to beat the orange man but I never liked the corporate

pandering. I also think his Anita Hill excuses are weak - no one is perfect but any Democrat is better than what we have now. If Biden can beat these assholes then he will get my vote. I am not committing yet. We have a lot of excellent candidates. I do think if Biden comes out ahead then he might consider someone that can get young people to the polls.

[Awsi Dooger]

31. It would have many similarities to the GOP nominating Bob Dole in 1996

Republicans were stunned when the White House was unexpectedly taken away in 1992. They devoted the next 4 years to hatred against Bill Clinton and everything he stood for. The 1994 midterm was such a rousing success for them that they rationalized that a well-respected long time senator well into his 70s was a fine choice to oppose Clinton in 1996.

Meanwhile I remember not being scared at all. If you're going to take that type of strategic route against an incumbent, be my guest. I've always believed that it takes charisma and special qualities to knock out a presidential incumbent, especially if his party has been in power only one term -- like Clinton '96 and Trump '20.

The GOP would never make that mistake again. Bob Dole may have been highly respected and admired, enough to be chosen as vice presidential running mate, just like Biden. But Dole had already sought the presidency multiple times and never come close. He was quick to exit in 1980. He fared better in 1988, winning Iowa but then ganged up on by Bush 43 cronies, and swamped.

IMO, we are placing too much weight on Biden's 8 years as vice president while ignoring how he fared while campaigning on his own. Fall 2020 he would be on his own against an incumbent.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. Clinton responded to his shellacking by moving to the center.

Trump is doubling down on his base strategy.

[DonaldsRump]

37. We usually look for outsiders in US Presidential elections, but not this time

Safe is what we need to at least have a shot to get back on track as a country and as a world. Dear Leader has done a fine job in dividing us and wreaking havoc nationally and internationally. I want SAFE. I have had enough of this buffoon who is the quintessential outsider, who is so outside, we really no nothing about him.

There are some outstanding candidates, but I really want "safe" right now. Getting someone like Biden as P and Kamala Harris as VP, would be an excellent compromise, opening the door for Senator Harris and these outstanding candidates in years to come.

That being said, I will absolutely support whoever is our nominee and his/her VP pick. There is absolutely no other option.

[Codeine]

38. We're spending an entire Presidential term

in a tumble dryer on high, accompanied by several cinder blocks and an angry housecat. The idea that people might want a quiet moment on the couch with a cup of tea and some Seinfeld reruns makes perfect sense. Sometimes safe, rational normalcy is an entirely rational choice.

I’m ready for some excitement and change, but I won’t condemn anyone for thinking that a safe bet is, well, the safe bet.

[Justice]

40. Well said.

[Gothmog]

43. Electablity is a key factor in this race

We have to defeat trump. There is a very good chance that trump will win if we pick a weak or unsafe choice. There are posters who believe that we can nominate the most liberal/socialist nominee as possible and that candidate will easily win because everyone hates trump. It is their position that this is a historic opportunity to nominate someone would otherwise not be electable.

From Larry Sabato https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-economy-got-nixon-reagan-and-bush-reelected-it-could-do-it-for-trump-too/2019/04/23/b8920d34-65e6-11e9-a1b6-b29b90efa879_story.html?utm_term=.a35b315730d2

Ultimately, Trump may turn out to be at the mercy of conventional factors. In 2016, academic predictive models based on fundamentals such as the state of the economy suggested that Trump, or any other Republican candidate, was in position to win the election or come very close. This time, such models (once they become operative next year) could make Trump the early favorite despite his poor approval ratings.

Credit the powers of incumbency and a strong economy, the state of which may matter more to Trump’s odds than nearly anything else. Incumbency and the economy, among other matters, ended up being more than enough for Nixon, Reagan and Bush. Despite Trump’s unprecedented outlandishness, that same combination might work for him, too.

Most POTUS are re-elected if the economy is good. Here is a scary study that shows this

Link to tweet

There are good reasons to doubt this study

Link to tweet

I do not believe that trump is assured of winning. If we want to win, Democrats need to nominate a strong nominee who is NOT too far out of the mainstream

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. I actually think Uncle Joe's promise of a return to normalcy has a good chance of carrying the day.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128788997

[LakeArenal]

51. This is all your opinion. And definitely not mine.

I’ve been to a Joe event. He’s neither dull nor uninspiring.

[SCantiGOP]

53. It is hard

To make a case that a “safe choice” is a bad thing for a political candidate.

[UniteFightBack]

56. If you don't like safety maybe you should vote for rump then. nt

[Kentonio]

61. Joe Biden not showing fire is absolutely the last of my worries.

He's always been passionate. It's when that passion leads to unnecessary gaffes that the problems start.