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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 10:58 PM Apr 2019

Been out of pocket for a week. Pelosi really squelched impeachment?

No "thinking about it " for me.

So trying to quickly catch up. Warrren, Moulton, Buttigieg, and Harris are probably impeachment and all the rest no????

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Been out of pocket for a week. Pelosi really squelched impeachment? (Original Post) Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 OP
100% of the Senate rethuglicon majority votes NO. democratisphere Apr 2019 #1
Who cares what they do Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #9
Might want to brush up on impeachment democratisphere Apr 2019 #14
Thanks. Totally understand how it works. Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #18
No, as she's always suggested, elleng Apr 2019 #2
Snooze Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #8
Were You Expecting Impeachment Before Any Hearings or Investigations by the House? Indykatie Apr 2019 #3
This is a total travisty. Of course there's hearings but Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #6
No she did not. She wants the full report, hearings and testimony, then let the chips... brush Apr 2019 #4
Ugh. Stand up for something! Get the full report sure. Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #7
The nat'l TV hearings were what influenced public opinion in favor of impeachment. brush Apr 2019 #20
CNN. 68% Dems for impeachment. Fine, totally Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #29
68% of Dems favor impeachment (CNN) Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #5
Recent polls show a majority of the women in this country want impeachment. Kath2 Apr 2019 #11
Good thinking. Will get on phone tommorow too! Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #12
Right on! Kath2 Apr 2019 #13
No she didn't mcar Apr 2019 #10
I don't even have to look it up...I know...blah blah blah Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #15
Exactly. Kath2 Apr 2019 #16
Agree a million percent..but it's probably too late... Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #17
It does make me ill. Kath2 Apr 2019 #21
This is what I don't get for the life of me. We want Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #24
I hear you, Laura... CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2019 #19
Good point. Kath2 Apr 2019 #22
I agree: we do need to put Republicans on the spot for their support of this cretin. CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2019 #26
I just can't fathom having a glaring injustice as bright Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #23
I truly don't think the fear is nebulous. I see it very concretely. CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2019 #25
Don't see the difference between: Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #27
My thoughts, exactly. Kath2 Apr 2019 #30
I had this conversation with a friend this morning. Kath2 Apr 2019 #28
Plus, for once, all Americans can hear a clear and Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #33
Exactly. Kath2 Apr 2019 #36
Hillary wrote a perfect WaPo piece about how to respond: formal impeachment investigation hearings. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #31
I'm with Nancy redstateblues Apr 2019 #32
Why does that sound so blind Faith ish ?? Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #34
No, she didn't take it off the table. nt Honeycombe8 Apr 2019 #35
Ugh...just heard Schiff diss impeachment Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #37
 

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
1. 100% of the Senate rethuglicon majority votes NO.
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:01 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
18. Thanks. Totally understand how it works.
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:48 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elleng

(130,865 posts)
2. No, as she's always suggested,
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:01 PM
Apr 2019

facts/investigations necessary first.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Indykatie

(3,695 posts)
3. Were You Expecting Impeachment Before Any Hearings or Investigations by the House?
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:02 PM
Apr 2019

We can't go straight to impeachment without those steps can we?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
6. This is a total travisty. Of course there's hearings but
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:14 PM
Apr 2019

Stand up and stop being mealy mouthed. There's enough to stand up and say YES we will impeach!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brush

(53,764 posts)
4. No she did not. She wants the full report, hearings and testimony, then let the chips...
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:03 PM
Apr 2019

fall where they may. Makes much sense to get the hearings on TV to expose to the nation how trump and the repugs cooperated with the Russians and have tried to, and continue to obstruct justice by now refusing subpoenas.

Misinformation is not helpful

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
7. Ugh. Stand up for something! Get the full report sure.
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:15 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brush

(53,764 posts)
20. The nat'l TV hearings were what influenced public opinion in favor of impeachment.
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:57 PM
Apr 2019

of Nixon and Clinton. It's in our favor to keep hearings going on for months to educate the public on trump's crimes as we get closer to the election.

Right now most aren't im favor of immediate impeachment. If we time it right we'll get public opinion in our favor for impeachment and/or an election win. We can play the hearing game too as the repugs did with Benghazi and the emails.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
29. CNN. 68% Dems for impeachment. Fine, totally
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:30 AM
Apr 2019

fine with hearings.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
5. 68% of Dems favor impeachment (CNN)
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:06 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kath2

(3,074 posts)
11. Recent polls show a majority of the women in this country want impeachment.
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:31 PM
Apr 2019

Have the hearings. Make the Republicans go on record supporting this ass and see what happens. I have called all my representatives and told their staffers I support impeachment now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
12. Good thinking. Will get on phone tommorow too!
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:35 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kath2

(3,074 posts)
13. Right on!
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:37 PM
Apr 2019

Thank you. Resist!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mcar

(42,301 posts)
10. No she didn't
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:18 PM
Apr 2019

A little research would tell you that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
15. I don't even have to look it up...I know...blah blah blah
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:38 PM
Apr 2019

This is insane. You can still stand up and say it and investigate. JHC Mueller handed it to us with a bow on it

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kath2

(3,074 posts)
16. Exactly.
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:40 PM
Apr 2019

Mueller gave them the goods. They have all they need. All they need to do now is act on behalf of the people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
17. Agree a million percent..but it's probably too late...
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:45 PM
Apr 2019

Impact and connection to Mueller report waned away. Don't ya think? Average voter thinking well...nothing happened..moved on. It is sickening.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kath2

(3,074 posts)
21. It does make me ill.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:00 AM
Apr 2019

Impeachment hearings should have started immediately. I still have hope that Dems will do the right thing. Rashida Tlaib, AOC and Ilhan Omar are some the few who have the integrity to do what is right.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
24. This is what I don't get for the life of me. We want
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:17 AM
Apr 2019

New spirit and integrity and unabashed liberalism and people who stand up a scream our values...yet we approve of being wishy washy and political and old thinking (I can't say the L word) when it comes to doing what's right.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,583 posts)
19. I hear you, Laura...
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 11:55 PM
Apr 2019

I want to get that bastard out of OUR White House as badly as you do, I suspect.

And impeachment seems like the thing to do.

But.

We have the House, no problem there. We can do that in the House.

The Senate is another story as you and I well know. They would not vote for conviction, PERIOD.

And the end result would be that tRump would loudly proclaim victory, no conviction, he is exonerated again.

That would be extremely bad in terms of the 2020 election. It could give him the election.

So we wait and see. I find this extremely difficult but I truly think this is the right path.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kath2

(3,074 posts)
22. Good point.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:02 AM
Apr 2019

But wouldn't it be a good thing to put the Republicans on the spot as supporting this lying bigot?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,583 posts)
26. I agree: we do need to put Republicans on the spot for their support of this cretin.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:21 AM
Apr 2019

But how?

As I said to Laura, just below, I don't know how to do that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
23. I just can't fathom having a glaring injustice as bright
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:13 AM
Apr 2019

and as obvious as we have (or had a week or two ago) and remain silent just because we have a nebulous fear of what the Senate will do. Hold their feet to the fire! You don't think that every single solitary one if those opposed are thrilled we do nothing? And they don't have to stand up before the world and say " no, I don't care that a president of our country tried a dozen times to get people to break the law?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,583 posts)
25. I truly don't think the fear is nebulous. I see it very concretely.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:19 AM
Apr 2019

I KNOW they wouldn't convict him and I know he would use this to the maximum, just as he has the Mueller report.

I don't think it means we do nothing. But I'm not political enough to know just what we should do to show our anger and disgust with him.

That path is not clear to me.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
27. Don't see the difference between:
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:26 AM
Apr 2019

1) impeaching
2) not impeaching

Each give trump the ammo to say "look nothing there"

But, the first:
1) honors our duty and obligation
2) Marks Dipshit egomaniac in the history books as impeached.
3) forces Republicans to go on record that they condone his crimes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kath2

(3,074 posts)
30. My thoughts, exactly.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:32 AM
Apr 2019

Just do the right thing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Kath2

(3,074 posts)
28. I had this conversation with a friend this morning.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:28 AM
Apr 2019

She opposes impeachment because it realistically will not happen and the ass in chief will claim victory. I am of the opinion that we should impeach now as a matter of principle. Let the Republicans go on record supporting this criminal. Hold the televised hearings and let the people decide.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
33. Plus, for once, all Americans can hear a clear and
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:01 AM
Apr 2019

Concise list of crimes and not spread out over time, this diminishing their significance and dillution (Trump's intent).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kath2

(3,074 posts)
36. Exactly.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:08 AM
Apr 2019

Americans apparently love reality TV. Televise impeachment hearings and let the truth come out.

Trump is doing too much damage to wait, IMHO. The Supreme Court, women's rights, equality, the environment. I could go on and on.

I do not want to wait until 2020 to stop this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
31. Hillary wrote a perfect WaPo piece about how to respond: formal impeachment investigation hearings.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 12:33 AM
Apr 2019

Two days ago, Hillary put out a brilliant piece on how to respond to the Mueller Report:is calling for formal impeachment investigation hearings:

Watergate offers a better precedent. Then, as now, there was an investigation that found evidence of corruption and a coverup. It was complemented by public hearings conducted by a Senate select committee, which insisted that executive privilege could not be used to shield criminal conduct and compelled White House aides to testify. The televised hearings added to the factual record and, crucially, helped the public understand the facts in a way that no dense legal report could. Similar hearings with Mueller, former White House counsel Donald McGahn and other key witnesses could do the same today.

During Watergate, the House Judiciary Committee also began a formal impeachment inquiry that was led by John Doar, a widely respected former Justice Department official and hero of the civil rights struggle. He was determined to run a process that the public and history would judge as fair and thorough, no matter the outcome. If today’s House proceeds to an impeachment inquiry, I hope it will find someone as distinguished and principled as Doar to lead it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hillary-clinton-mueller-documented-a-serious-crime-against-all-americans-heres-how-to-respond/2019/04/24/1e8f7e16-66b7-11e9-82ba-fcfeff232e8f_story.html?utm_term=.108a5648959e

Hillary should know, she was there during the Nixon impeachment process as an impeachment attorney. The process started with a formal House Resolution: "An impeachment process against Richard Nixon was formally initiated on February 6, 1974, when the United States House of Representatives passed a resolution, H.Res. 803, giving its Judiciary Committee authority to investigate whether sufficient grounds existed to impeach Richard Nixon, the 37th President of the United States of high crimes and misdemeanors, primarily related to the Watergate scandal....The Judiciary Committee set up a staff, the Impeachment Inquiry staff, to handle looking into the charges, that was separate from its regular Permanent staff. Based upon the recommendations of many in the legal community, John Doar, a well-known civil rights attorney in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations who was a long-time Republican turned Independent, was hired by Rodino in December 1973 to be the lead special counsel for the Impeachment Inquiry staff. Doar shared with Rodino a view that the Senate hearings had gone overboard with leaked revelations and witnesses compelled to testify under immunity grants; they were determined to do things in a more thorough and objective process." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon

That is what we need to do now.

As I have also been saying for days (although Hillary does not mention it in her piece, BUT I AM SURE SHE KNOWS), regular oversight hearings do not give authority to Congress to obtain Mueller's grand jury info, only formal impeachment proceedings can do that.

As Lawrence Tribe stated in the Washington Post:

The uncertain prospect that the House Judiciary Committee will receive the raw, unredacted report generated by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III got even less certain Friday. A decision by the federal court of appeals in Washington now confronts the House leadership and Attorney General William P. Barr with some difficult political choices.

In a 2-to-1 decision in McKeever v. Barr, the court reaffirmed the principle of grand jury secrecy and concluded that a court has no “inherent power” to release grand jury information. This decision will give Barr a plausible basis to resist the Judiciary Committee’s subpoena of the entire Mueller report, even if the committee goes to court to enforce it. But both the House and the attorney general have ways to cope with this obstacle, if they have the political will and the professional judgment to do so.

In McKeever, two Republican appointees, including President Trump’s former deputy White House counsel, concluded that grand jury information must remain confidential unless a request for disclosure falls within one of the narrow exceptions listed in the federal rules of criminal procedure. The court refused to allow the disclosure of grand jury proceedings relating to the 1957 indictment of an FBI agent suspected of conspiring with the regime of Dominican Republic dictator Rafael Trujillo to kidnap and murder an outspoken critic. Even though all the witnesses and principals died long ago, the court concluded that a historian writing a book about the incident could not get access to the grand jury proceedings.

In the face of Barr’s decision not to disclose any of the Mueller report to the public or even to the House Judiciary Committee chaired by Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D- N.Y.) until Barr and his team have scrubbed the report of grand jury information (and other material), Nadler and committee Democrats have authorized a subpoena for the full report, setting the stage for a court fight over the committee’s right to see grand jury information. Although the public need underlying the request for disclosure in McKeever was much less pressing, the decision in that case undermines the position of Nadler’s committee, because the controlling federal rule contains no exception allowing congressional “oversight” committees to demand access to otherwise secret grand jury proceedings.

One of the exceptions to grand jury secrecy is disclosure “preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding.” To authorize disclosure of the Watergate grand jury information, the special prosecutor’s office argued that the House had authorized its Judiciary Committee to conduct a formal impeachment inquiry and that such an inquiry could be fairly analogized to a “grand jury” investigation and thus a judicial proceeding. Both the district court and the court of appeals agreed, and the Judiciary Committee obtained both the report and the underlying evidence.

Significantly, the appeals court decision several days ago reaffirmed that exception. All three judges agreed that an impeachment inquiry falls within the “exception for judicial proceedings” and “coheres” with other rulings about the proper scope of grand jury secrecy.

But Pelosi has declined to allow the Judiciary Committee to open even a preliminary impeachment inquiry, asserting rather bizarrely that Trump is “not worth it.” That decision may hamstring Nadler’s quest for the complete Mueller report. Nothing in the federal rules creates an explicit exception allowing congressional committees exercising general powers of government “oversight” to demand access to secret grand jury material. So, Pelosi and Nadler are confronting a dilemma of their own making: either revisit the politically fraught impeachment question or concede that the House is at the mercy of whatever judgment the attorney general makes in excising grand jury information, which may include the most salient material about possible collusion and obstruction of justice.

For his part, Barr also has delicate judgments to make. If he is so inclined, the attorney general could properly opt to exclude only the names and actual testimony of grand jury witnesses while nevertheless informing the Judiciary Committee — and the public — about the substance of the information developed during the proceedings. Unfortunately, Barr has given every indication that he intends to make needlessly sweeping redactions, especially having ruled that, in his judgment, the evidence of obstruction of justice did not rise to the level of a prosecutable crime. Trump’s selection of his new attorney general may prove to be his best line of defense — unless Pelosi revisits her stance and directs the House Judiciary Committee to include impeachment within its investigatory ambit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-full-mueller-report-could-be-released--if-the-house-opens-impeachment-hearings/2019/04/08/e47fff42-5a14-11e9-a00e-050dc7b82693_story.html

Not only would trying to recreate the grand jury testimony be time-consuming and wasteful in a regular oversight hearing, now that the White House has ordered all Trump aides, including McGahn, to not respond to Congressional subpoenas, it will be next to impossible to do it in light of case law. But not if it is a formal impeachment investigation hearing. That is why we must go this route, and do it immediately.

So, you have Hillary Clinton and our nation's top constitutional law professor, Lawrence Tribe, calling for immediate formal impeachment proceedings. So far, Pelosi has only indicated she will do regular oversight hearings, but she does not appear to have ruled out a formal impeachment inquiry.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
34. Why does that sound so blind Faith ish ??
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:02 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
35. No, she didn't take it off the table. nt
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:05 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
37. Ugh...just heard Schiff diss impeachment
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:15 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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