Nina Turner Blasts Audience From Black Women's Forum for Booing Senator's MLK Comments

[ehrnst]

Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2019, 09:50 AM - Edit history (1)

A fired-up Turner told the crowd that “people want to strip [Sanders] of his history.”

She asked the crowd “In what world when you are sitting on the stage telling folks about your history, and you mention the fact that you were on the March on Washington with Reverend Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Fort Worth, in what world do people boo that?”

“That happened to Senator Sanders yesterday, and I’m calling it out,” Turner said. “In what world? You don’t boo folks for that. And I don’t care if it was somebody who I didn’t care about their policies, if they stood up with the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and other heroes and sheroes, we need to shout that out.

Turner then went on an extended riff about Sanders’ record, including telling the millennials in the crowd that “when he was around your age, at the University of Chicago, he stood up against housing discrimination in Chicago… and he was chained to a black woman doing it.”

........................................................

A member of the audience asked Sanders “What do you believe is the federal government’s role to fight against the rise of white nationalism and white terrorist acts, and how do you plan to lead on that in your first year as president?”

Sanders delivered a lengthy response that wandered from a critique of Trump’s “demagoguery” to policies like immigration reform and Medicare for All, but did not address white supremacist terrorism. It was during this reply that the audience began to jeer.

The jeering and the boos for Sanders appeared to be more directed at his failure to answer the questions asked than at his activism. The only policy he mentioned that was in any way related to white supremacist violence was hate crimes legislation, which already exists.

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/bernie-adviser-nina-turner-blasts-audience-from-black-womens-forum-for-booing-senators-mlk-comments/

Sending a WOC to falsely smear a group of WOC for "booing civil rights actions" to a cheering mostly white crowd is very bad optics, at best.

[LovingA2andMI]

1. WhoTF is Nina Turner?

Tell African-American Women what to think and when to Boo? She needs to slow her role, quick!

[ehrnst]

5. Well, she's not a campaign manager who ensures the candidate is briefed and prepared

before he goes before an audience of WOC who will be asking him about issues directly concerning women of color. (Even when they have more than one WOC staffer - a list of which was WIDELY publicized. He either was briefed and he just didn't pay attention, or he didn't want to hear from those staffers. I have my theories on which.)

But Turner does go out and publicly scold an audience of activist WOC for 'not understanding and respecting who is and is not a civil rights hero.'

I guess that job description is different that many thought it was.

[Hortensis]

103. Their campaign manager job description must be

far from the usual. You don't bring agitators in to organize smooth campaigns, but for just what she does here.

Imo, she's always seemed like an overly aggressive bundle of bad judgments and reactions, no matter the goal. Here, though, I can't help wondering if their focus isn't really people like that applauding white audience they gathered, not PoC at all. Then the troublemongering and haranguing that pleases their audience would make sense.

Remembering that in 2015-2016 Sanders' more zealous white leftist and populist supporters proudly pointed to his civil rights record and were angry with PoC and Democrats in general for not appreciating it as they should have. Maybe that unifying anger was as intended.

Deja vu all over again?

[ehrnst]

155. He was active in college, and he endorsed Jessie Jackson for POTUS!

Why on earth should he be expected to answer questions about what he would do about White Supremacy now?

The NERVE of those ungrateful, unruly women!

[EffieBlack]

158. And how DARE they not sit quietly while he AGAIN told them his history?!

Because when you are a beacon of white civil rights activism and leadership, you must introduce and reintroduce and reintroduce yourself again to black audiences - otherwise, how else would they possibly know what a tremendous and effective ally you are to them?

[ehrnst]

161. Apparently, he was "setting the stage for showing them he was on their side"

and they just didn't like the "inconvenient truth" that his time limit for speaking wasn't up. They have to be "educated" by Bernie, and rudely didn't clap.

I guess they were just not properly grateful to him for bestowing upon them his wisdom about what they should be asking about.

All those white people cheering Nina Turner for blasting them as "booing MLK jr himself" got it, why couldn't those women.

And goodness,

Bernie has an notable history fighting for the movement. You apparently hate him and those efforts .

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=94330

[Hortensis]

162. Hey Effie, hi. Just one part of the enormous burden

of trying to rescue a nation of terminally stupid people who don't know what they need.

Kandice Webber, Houston Rising, explained what they needed to hear from him clearly enough.

“If economics is Bernie Sanders’ sweet spot then you need to talk about economics as it pertains to black women and he didn’t do that. One of the things that were fighting for right now is to stop feeding off the scraps of the white man’s table. Bernie Sanders gave us scraps today; we came for a feast.”

And limited as I believe his understanding is, I don't think he or anyone else in that campaign was too stupid to know that ahead of time. What we saw was stonewalling black women that he and his surrogates could claim was big commitment.

[True Blue American]

15. A former Congress Woman

From Ohio who lost her seat and has been frantically running from place to place.

First it was Bernie, then when he lost Jill Stein. Tried to make it on CNN as a pundit. Even a complete make over did not work. Now, back to Bernie.

We had another just like her who ran on her Fathers name, lost, ran for Dayton Mayor,lost that to a guy who had never been in politics. Rhynne McLin.

[oasis]

70. Turner bailed on Hillary's 2016 campaign, got on Bernie's payroll

and the sang the praises of Jill Stein after Bernie finally bowed out. Democratic Party malcontents such as she, are partially responsible for Trump being in the White House.

Btw, Turner never served in U.S. congress. She was a state senator in Ohio before she began her journey of hiring out her "talents".

[BannonsLiver]

78. Turner was never in Congress

She was an Ohio state senator years ago. That’s the extent of her time in government.

[True Blue American]

153. Right

And she even lost that! She is a hanger on.

[Demsrule86]

39. A Jill stein Groupie...

She is from Ohio ...liked her and voted for her. But she went off the rails in16. Now she hates Democrats...was the very unsuccessful president of our revolution...tried tonmake Democrats crawl while supporting Green slime and even Republicans. Flores was on the board, but she and Nina got into it over Latina outreach and Nina's hiring of a person who supported Trump's immigration policy. Flores resigned from the board. I have thought the Flores attack on Biden were an attempt to ingraciate herself with Sanders ....mend fences.

And I am sure a Sanders surrogate screaming at thie audience at this event will really help Sanders...not.

[Dream Girl]

77. She's been promised big things from BERNIE, I THINK

[tonedevil]

95. She can certainly speak for one Black Woman. nt

[trueblue2007]

106. i think she is horrible. She spewed tons of hatred on Hillary. .... and she still does to this day

[dalton99a]

2. Revolutionaries are trying to invent history

Perhaps most important is that Sanders himself has not discussed participating in a 1965 march led by Dr. King. In June 2015 Sanders penned piece entitled “Youth Unemployment and Dr. King’s Dream” in which he confirms that he attended the 1963 “I Have a Dream” speech in Washington. In this essay, which spans nearly 800 words, Sanders does not mention Selma at all.

Biographies which focus on Sanders’ life in the 1960s note that he moved to Vermont immediately after graduating from college in June 1964. He and his wife much of the next two years traveling Europe before their divorce in 1966. These biographies do not mention a trip to Alabama in 1965.

Notable early events in Sanders’ political career include his arrest during a demonstration against segregation in Chicago’s public schools in 1963, and a civil rights sit-in at the University of Chicago in 1962. Once again, a 1965 march in Selma is not included in histories of Sanders’ early political career.

In March 2015, Sanders announced that he would attend the 50th anniversary of the Selma march – and did not mention that he had attended the original event himself. At the event, his speech also failed to mention that he was there at the historic march.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sanders-mlk-selma-march/

[dlk]

3. Political Hatchet Persons Come in All Shapes and Sizes

[samnsara]

4. i dont think ppl are falling for her rhetoric any more..her anger looks more like whats on the..

..other side...and reminds ppl of crowds they saw, calling HRC a Corporate Whore. Ppl are tired of and no longer impressed with name calling and yelling to get their point across....people are craving measured, well thought out rhetoric..

[CentralMass]

6. I wonder if they would gave been booingJoe Bidens comments from

back in that era. ?

[ehrnst]

8. 'Back in that era'.... last week?

Simply put, whataboutism refers to the bringing up of one issue in order to distract from the discussion of another. It does not apply to the comparison and analysis of two similar issues in terms such as why some are given more social prominence than others.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Whataboutism

But in 1963, Biden would have been 21. I'll bite - what was Joe 'saying' in 1963?

Perhaps you'd want to compare what Sanders and Biden were saying in 1972? Biden was elected to the Senate, and Bernie was writing essays.

[CentralMass]

28. This is about comparisons. What were these two people

doing back in the civil rights era.

Bernie
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/bernie-sanders-core-university-chicago/
"Here’s What Bernie Sanders Actually Did in the Civil Rights Movement

But Sanders was, in his own right, an active participant in the movement during his three years at the University of Chicago.

Although Sanders did attend the 1963 March on Washington, at which Lewis spoke, most of his work was in and around Hyde Park, where he became involved with the campus chapter of CORE shortly after transferring from Brooklyn College in 1961. During Sanders’ first year in Chicago, a group of apartment-hunting white and black students had discovered that off-campus buildings owned by the university were refusing to rent to black students, in violation of the school’s policies. CORE organized a 15-day sit-in at the administration building, which Sanders helped lead. (James Farmer, who co-founded CORE and had been a Freedom Rider with Lewis, came to the University of Chicago that winter to praise the activists’ work.) The protest ended when George Beadle, the university’s president, agreed to form a commission to study the school’s housing policies.

Sanders was one of two students from CORE appointed to the commission, which included the neighborhood’s alderman and state representative, in addition to members of the administration. But not long afterward, Sanders blew up at the administration, accusing Beadle of reneging on his promise and refusing to answer questions from students on its integration plan. In an open letter in the student newspaper, the Chicago Maroon, Sanders vented about the double-cross:

That spring, with Sanders as its chairman, the university chapter of CORE merged with the university chapter of SNCC. Sanders announced plans to take the fight to the city of Chicago, and in the fall of 1962 he followed through, organizing picketers at a Howard Johnson in Cicero. Sanders told the Chicago Maroon, the student newspaper, that he wanted to keep the pressure on the restaurant chain after the arrest of 12 CORE demonstrators in North Carolina for trying to eat at a Howard Johnson there:
Sanders left his leadership role at the organization not long afterward; his grades suffered so much from his activism that a dean asked him to take some time off from school. (He didn’t take much interest in his studies, anyway.) But he continued his activism with CORE and SNCC. In August of 1963, not long after returning to Chicago from the March on Washington, Sanders was charged with resisting arrest after protesting segregation at a school on the city’s South Side. "

Joe
From the Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bidens-tough-talk-on-1970s-school-desegregation-plan-could-get-new-scrutiny-in-todays-democratic-party/2019/03/07/9115583e-3eb2-11e9-a0d3-1210e58a94cf_story.html

Biden’s tough talk on 1970s school desegregation plan could get new scrutiny in today’s Democratic Party

"Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.) is pictured in December 1972, a month after he was elected to the Senate. (Bettmann Archive)
By Matt Viser March 7
When Joe Biden was a freshman senator in the mid-1970s, his home state of Delaware, like other hotspots across the country, was engulfed in a bitter battle over school busing, debating whether children should be sent to schools in different neighborhoods to promote racial diversity.

Biden took a lead role in the fight, speaking out repeatedly and forcefully against sending white children to majority-black schools and black children to majority-white schools. He played down the persistence of overt racism and suggested that the government should have a limited role in integration.
A quote:
“I do not buy the concept, popular in the ’60s, which said, ‘We have suppressed the black man for 300 years and the white man is now far ahead in the race for everything our society offers. In order to even the score, we must now give the black man a head start, or even hold the white man back, to even the race,’ ” Biden told a Delaware-based weekly newspaper in 1975. “I don’t buy that.”

He added, “I don’t feel responsible for the sins of my father and grandfather. I feel responsible for what the situation is today, for the sins of my own generation. And I’ll be damned if I feel responsible to pay for what happened 300 years ago.”

[ehrnst]

54. So now you want to avoid the answer to the question I asked because the answer was

uncomfortable.

Got it.

I think you want to distract from that with a pissing contest, and again, I'm not obligated to join. You seem to have some of the same issues on display in that event with She the People: the assumption that you direct the conversation, and get very frustrated when others don't fall in line and do so.

Bernie could not or would not answer a basic question about what he would do as POTUS about violent white supremacist groups. He got irritated when they expressed frustration, and somehow thought dropping MLKs name as a reason he should not have to answer would maybe shame them into silence. It didn't work, and his WOC surrogate has been sent out to try to finish shaming them, in a further misguided attempt to detract from the fact that he could not answer questions from WOC about issues concerning WOC at a confernence for WOC where they were having a Candidate forum.

The audience was not happy, and when he was told that wasn't an answer, he fired back that he did something decades ago that black people should like so get off his back about what he would do as POTUS.

And now Bernie sent his WOC campaign manager to blast WOC, because if he said those same things, his campaign would be over.

He stepped in it, and instead of saying he stepped in it, and wiping it off, he's tracking it all over the house. Just accept that, and you have far more credibility.

[lillypaddle]

63. Yep. You got it.

Hammer meet nail.

[CentralMass]

69. I thought that I had. However we do all think and process differently.

Since your heels are dug in I'll try answer that question the best that I can. I quoted from the articles that I could find on the two candidates regarding there early involvenent in the civil right movement. Bernie has an notable history fighting for the movement. You apparently hate him and those efforts . He was young and it speaks, IMO, to his character and concern for other.

Joe Biden earliest moment seems to be when as a freshmen Senator he fought against bussing during the effort to desegregate schools. He supported a 1975 anti-busing amendment from Sen. Jesse Helms of North Carolina.
Helm's welcomed him "to the ranks if the enlightened" He had some pretty startling comments on his feeling that were quoted in that WAPO article.

So you believe want you want and hate who you hate. I'm supporting the Democratic socialist thst put it on the line and has fought the good fight over his political career.

[ehrnst]

80. So you believe want you want and hate who you hate.

Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2019, 09:59 AM - Edit history (3)

You reply with whataboutism when something less than positive is noted about Bernie, but when that whataboutism is used to make a point that you don't like, you get upset.

You apparently hate him and those efforts . He was young and it speaks, IMO, to his character and concern for other.

Scraping the very bottom of the barrel for strawmen, I see. Your attempts to trigger fail again and speaks to your desperation to derail a discusion of an inconvenient truth about his treatment of these WOC that is very, very uncomfortable for you. If you need to dehumanize those who criticize him, that says more about your character and "concern for others. :"eyes:

You started the derail, so don't complain when the conversation ends up somewhere that makes you look even more biased.


But your heels are dug in an attempt to avoid the actual discussion:

Bernie could not answer a question by a group of WOC in a candidate forume on what he would do about white supremacy as POTUS, and when pressed again, he defensively threw something that he did 50+ years ago as a reason that he's not racist should have to answer it. They then called him out on continuing to avoid giving an answer that would indicate he gave any thought whatsoever to the problem of White supremacy.

He then sent his WOC campaign manager to attack these women of color accusing them falsely of 'booing' that something he did 50 years ago, when they were calling him out on his continued evasion of their question. The things that she said would have ended his campaign had he said them to those women.

I'm supporting the Democratic socialist thst put it on the line and has fought the good fight over his political career.

You are defending a substantial gaffe in your candidate by trying to derail people from talking about it. He could not demonstrate that he had any interest in listening to and answering questions from a group of WOC, at a candidates forum at a conference of WOC, then sends his WOC campaign manager to accuse the WOC for "booing the idea that someone marched on Washington when MLK gave the Dream speech."

So you it's you that believes want you want and hates who you hate. If you can support what Bernie sent Turner to do, then you need to re-evaluate who it is that you believe, and who it is that you "hate."

[CentralMass]

87. Whataboutism is a bunch if crap. History matters.

I'm not black or a woman and I'll have to respect that the outrage is sincere.

Regarding my replies. This is how I process things and look at the world.
I see the historys of these candidates and add that in my decision matrix. What were they doing at pivotal moments in time. I can't change. I also find the Sanders hatred to be irrational.

[ehrnst]

92. You deployed whataboutism "But what about JOE?" So clearly you don't think it's a bunch of crap.

This is how I process things and look at the world. I see the historys of these candidates and add that in my decision matrix.

You weren't in that audience asking a specific question, and was getting the status quo politician runaround when they get an uncomfortable question, so that's not really a basis on which to judge if they were being unreasonable in response.

I can't change

That may explain your selection of POTUS candidates who share that characteristic.

I also find the Sanders hatred to be irrational.

I find the attacking any and all critiques of a candidate as 'hate' to be irrational. I find this kind of of pedestal for a human being to be on irrational.

[CentralMass]

111. I see you are trying to somehow tie Sanders to white nationalism or not condemning it

I thought the booing was regarding Nina Turners remarks about Sanders.

Well you win. The only person in the race that was involved with the civil rights movement in a positive way in this race doesnt get it. Though he was chair of his colleges chapter of the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE). Though he got arrested, cuffed, and hauled away while protesting segregation at a school on Chicago's South Side. Though be marched in 1963 in Washington.. He just doesnt get it

Well what you do in the moments like that matter snd define you. This isn't whataboutism this is whsthedidisim.

[ehrnst]

154. Another ugly, ugly strawman? Really?

Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2019, 10:14 AM - Edit history (4)

Again....

Sanders didn't answer the question about what he would do, as POTUS, about violent white supremacists. Instead he gave a vague answer about everyone being treated equally, and tried to veer off onto Medicare for All. When he was asked again to answer the question that was asked, he threw out MLK's name and that he was at the march defensively, as that was some sort of substitute for an answer. His repeated evasion of the question was booed.

The only person in the race that was involved with the civil rights movement in a positive way in this race doesnt get it

Because he's the only one old enough to have been at the march, no one else in the race has been involved in the civil rights movement in a positive way? That's reaching.....

And what about the optics of sending a WOC out to falsely smear other WOC to a cheering mostly white, crowd as a campaign tactic? What does that say about the candidate in 2019?

The question was not about his history in the civil rights movement. It was about what he would do as POTUS concerning violent white supremacists. You are doing what he did - trying to deny what the actual question was, and trying to blame the audience for calling him out for it. What was clueless was thinking that he could substitute listening to them and answering their question when confronted on his non-answer with simply saying "MLK march!"

About that arrest...

His comments at this event make it appear that he thinks what he did in College in the early 60's excuses him from focusing on what can be done to address violent white supremacists.

He couldn't even come up with this basic, no brainer: I will restore the Homeland Security Domestic Terrorism Unit that Trump has disbanded. No amount of activism 50+ years ago in college will excuse that.

BTW - Charleston Heston and Mitch McConnell were both also at the MLK march.

When Barack Obama was invited to a candidate's forum on health care reform in 2008, he declined, because he felt that he didn't have a comprehensive enough plan developed. Understanding that one isn't an expert on everything is a vital characteristic in a leader.

It seemed he was unprepared, so he did the status quo politician sidestep to his comfortable talking points, and these women weren't buying it. That's what they were booing. If you think an audience of WOC were booing the fact that someone was at the MLK march, and being one of the few in the race old enough to have done so, you are the one who is truly 'doesn't get it."

Well what you do in the moments like that matter snd define you.

Bernie thinking that he can send out a WOC to smear a group of WOC to cheering, very white crowd, is breathtakingly bad strategy, and worse optics. You and I both know if Bernie had said what Nina Turner it would have been called racially tone-deaf, at best. That decision to send Nina out to attack these women will be characterized as making a bad situation worse for the rest of his campaign. That matters and may define his campaign.

He thought sending a WOC to harrange them would convince people that it wasn't him being disrespectful, it was them who were attacking his civil rights record. If that's true, why didn't that same audience react that way to any of the other candidates?

No one defending Sanders on this thread has had the courage to answer that.

Bernie is showing the status quo male privilege refusing to admit that he made a mistake.

And yes, WHAT ABOUT JOE BIDEN FIFTY YEARS AGO??? in response to a criticism of Bernie Sanders and his campaign manager said this week is a spectacular example of whataboutism. You can stonewall and say it's not, but that doesn't change what several people here observed.

[ehrnst]

160. BUT WHAT ABOUT JOE BIDEN IN 1975???? LOOK OVER THERE!!!

Do NOT look a the WOC that sent out to falsely smear other WOC to a crowd of cheering white people!!!

JOE BIDEN!!!!!!! 1975!!!!!!!!!!! THAT's the ISSUE!!

Really feeling threatened that black people are just going to connect Biden with Obama? Is that the reason for all the panicked whataboutism using Biden?

I guess Kamala is no longer threat number 1, since she was the usual derail in the discussions of Bernie's tax returns.. WHERE ARE KAMALAS TAX RETURNS???

Bernie has an notable history fighting for the movement. You apparently hate him and those efforts

.

Cutting off the head of another is not the way to appear taller. Or credible.

Whataboutism and desperate, ugly, spectactuarly irrational smears are not exactly signs of confidence in one's candidate when others rightly point out the optics of the last few days with Sanders and WOC are anything but good.

Kandice Webber, Houston Rising, explained what they needed to hear from him clearly enough.

“If economics is Bernie Sanders’ sweet spot then you need to talk about economics as it pertains to black women and he didn’t do that. One of the things that were fighting for right now is to stop feeding off the scraps of the white man’s table. Bernie Sanders gave us scraps today; we came for a feast.”

But do go on.

[Skittles]

151. excellent assessment

spot on

[mcar]

61. Bernie 1963, Joe 1970

Nice try.

[ehrnst]

68. Joe 1972: Senator. Bernie 1972: "essays"

Last edited Sat Apr 27, 2019, 01:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Since the whataboutism about "well what was JOE BIDEN saying then?" has been brought up, let's see where that goes, shall we?

[mcar]

120. I always wonder why some supporters cannot admit their candidate

is wrong about some things.

[betsuni]

128. Especially because we've seen this conservation a million times:

A: (Repeats lie/conspiracy theory about a Democrat or the party.)

B: No, that's not true (provides links/quotes/videos proving it).

A: Why do you think Democrats are perfect and above criticism? (Includes at least one of these words: cheerleader, cult, lock-step, hive mind, echo chamber, worshippers, blind allegiance/party loyalty; attacks the messenger by claiming the source is right-wing; accuses B of being a paid shill and too stupid to have a serious conversation with.)

B: ... (Thinks: Indeed, reading your nonsense did make me more stupid and I could have a more serious conversation with my sofa. I'm going to make a coffeecake.)

[mcar]

131. 2nd B is me

[underthematrix]

97. Thank you for sharing this.

It demonstrates how people can change and grow and evolve overtime. Joe Biden was Vice President for eight years and during that time he was first out the gate on a number of issues my beloved President Obama was still evolving on. It takes great strength of character to change and then to walk and speak in that truth.

[dsc]

29. Not entirely sure you want to go there

Biden literally authored an amendment in 1974 that was designed to end desegregation efforts in schools. The amendment passed but was later watered down.

[CentralMass]

37. If you could, please link an article to the specific on that.

[dsc]

72. No problem

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/joe-biden-integration-school-busing-120968

Immediately after the Helms amendment was tabled, Biden proposed his own amendment to the $36 billion education bill, stipulating that none of those federal funds could be used by school systems “to assign teachers or students to schools … for reasons of race.” His amendment would prevent “some faceless bureaucrat” from “deciding that any child, black or white, should fit in some predetermined ratio.” He explained, “All the amendment says is that some bureaucrat sitting down there in HEW cannot tell a school district whether it is properly segregated or desegregated, or whether it should or should not have funds.” Finally, Biden called busing “an asinine policy.”

Brooke pointed out that the amendment would do much more than Biden claimed. Like the Helms gambit, it would still gut Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. But this time, a number of liberal senators that had opposed Helms’s amendment now supported Biden: Warren Magnuson and Scoop Jackson of Washington, where Seattle faced impending integration orders; and Thomas Eagleton and Stuart Symington of Missouri, where Kansas City confronted a similar fate. Mike Mansfield, the majority leader from Montana, also jumped on board. Watching his liberal colleagues defect, Republican Jacob Javits of New York mused, “They’re scared to death on busing.” The Senate approved Biden’s amendment. Biden had managed to turn a 48-43 loss for the anti-busing forces into a 50-43 victory.

In a seminal moment, the Senate thus turned against desegregation. The Senate had supported the 1964 Civil Rights Act, 1965 Voting Rights Act and 1968 Fair Housing Act. In the early 1970s, as President Richard Nixon and the House of Representatives encouraged the anti-busing movement, the Senate remained the last bastion for those who supported strong integration policies. Biden stormed that bastion, and it seemed to be falling. On September 23, another border-state Democrat moved against busing. Robert Byrd, the West Virginian who had since repudiated his Klan past, offered a perfecting amendment. It would prohibit busing beyond a student’s nearest school. It passed the Senate by a vote of 51-45.

end of quote

Those are the last three paragraphs of page 2

[CentralMass]

75. You think that is a postive ?

"Biden had managed to turn a 48-43 loss for the anti-busing forces into a 50-43 victory.
In a seminal moment, the Senate thus turned against desegregation. "

[dsc]

79. ah no

which is why I warned the person who was saying that it was a good idea to compare Biden to Sanders in the 1970's might want to rethink that. That person clearly felt Biden's behavior in the 1970's was better than Sanders.

[CentralMass]

83. My apologies. I thought the reply was to me.

[ehrnst]

163. Attacked even before you read it fully.

You assumed it was contradicting you, so you saw contradiction where there wasn't any.

What does 'knee-jerk reaction' mean?
An immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive;

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/32383/what-does-knee-jerk-reaction-mean

Think about that.

[radical noodle]

13. The problem is

that he always fails to address the issues concerning black Americans while falling back on that tired line about marching with MLK, Jr. African Americans (and especially women) are obviously tired of him dredging up the past when he cannot seem to bring himself to talk about the dangers they see today.

[Demsrule86]

43. It is not back in the era.and Sanders also voted for the crime bill. He didn't answer

the question about white supremacist. And then announced he marched with MLK...like that gives him a pass.

If Sanders loses the primary maybe he is not a victim of the 'establishment' but simply not a great candidate. Nina did him no favors with her over the top behavior.

[Demsrule86]

47. She attacked the audience. She did not help Sanders.

[MaryMagdaline]

86. They booed him because he didn't answer the question. Joe would have answered the question, ie would

Have told them what he planned to do to combat white supremacy ... that was the question that deserved an answer.

I hope someone has the guts to say “I’ll withhold federal funds to law enforcement agencies if they don’t submit detailed plans for weeding out white spremacists in their ranks and that do not submit aggressive plans for minority hiring.” (As a start).

No doubt, Bernie was way beyond all current candidates in the civil rights issues back in the day; he just needed to answer with a plan. Answers are revealing ... if Bernie truly believes racism arises from economic inequality only, then he is off base with most of our party.

If I am reading him wrong, I am not alone, and he needs to hit this issue out of the park.

[Cha]

105. Wonder away.. The WOC Booed BS at

#SheThePeople in 2019 because he e tried to use "I marched with MLK" to avoid answering a question about what he'd do to fight white supremacists.

Link to tweet

[LanternWaste]

173. And now, our daily dose of Whataboutism...

[highplainsdem]

7. Oh, please. Sanders got a negative reaction because he didn't answer the question directly. Turner

knows that and she's just trying to spin it.

[PatSeg]

16. I'm no fan of Nina Turner

but I saw the video and I thought the jeering was uncalled for and very rude. A little civility goes a long way, especially when living in this god-awful Trump era.

[ehrnst]

23. You might also be uncomfortable in a historically black church as well.

There is much "rude" interruption of a speaker.

What they could have said and did not: "You then moved far away from the civil rights movement to lilly white Vermont to live, while other people carried on doing the hard, bloody work of civil rights activism where it was going on."

I personally thought Sanders displayed far more of a lack of civility in his lack of preparation on the topic, and his doubling down when he was asked to direct his response back to the question.

So you thought Turner's bashing of that audience was in no way disrespectful even though falsely stating that the audience was booing the fact that he marched in Washington, but dropping MLKs name instead of answering why he couldn't address the issues that he was there to talk about.

I find it breathtaking that people want to blame the audience for calling a speaker out on evading questions. None of the other candidates got this "disrespectful" feedback, because they actually were there to answer questions, respected the audience, and had given the issues sepcific to WOC some thought.

[True Blue American]

33. I am not uncomfortable in a black Church.

But I despise Nina Turner because she is not credible. She goes wherever she can to stay relevant.

My State, I know her History.

[ehrnst]

62. I'm talking about your observation that the audience was "rude" and "disrespectful."

They were simply vocal with their frustration with his evasion of the questions.

I think he was counting on them shutting up with the mention of the MLK march.

[MineralMan]

170. Yup. Black audiences are familiar with white men telling them

their version of "I have a black friend." Bernie dodged a very important question and just gave out his usual stump lines, instead of answering the actual question. The audience recognized that and gave him some feedback about what they thought of his answer.

Lots of white folks have been temporarily involved with the civil rights movement. People of color live it every day, and aren't impressed with something someone did one time in the past.

Hell, After driving to Alabama from California, I stood at the back of the crowd and listened to MLK give his "How long? Not long" speech after the Selma march. I was 19 years old. I asked a man nearby, after the speech, "What can I do to help?" The man said, "Listen, son. Just listen to us." Bernie doesn't listen. He tells. He thinks he's answering questions, but really he didn't listen to the question, so he's not answering it.

Listen, Bernie. Just listen to them.

[ehrnst]

171. Someone who doesn't think they have anything to learn doesn't listen.

They just wait for an opening into which they can continue their train of thought.

[MineralMan]

172. Bernie has a story to tell. He thinks it's a great story and that everyone

should hear it. So, he tells it over and over again, until he's able to just let it roll off his tongue without really thinking about it. He's just waiting for a keyword from the audience that somehow ties into one of his stories.

Most politicians do something like that. It's easier for them to just say the stock lines and move on. However, the danger is that you stop really listening to the questions and are just listening for the keywords that apply to one of your stories.

That's what happened. Someone asked something about white nationalists and racism, so Bernie mentioned Martin Luther King and went off on one of his standard responses. Trouble was, it didn't even come close to answering the question. That audience wasn't in the mood for that crap, and other politicians had done a lot better with the questions. So Bernie fluffed it and blew an opportunity. It happens, if you're not in the moment and paying close attention.

[ehrnst]

176. A status quo career politician's sidestep, as it were.(nt)

[BannonsLiver]

81. Hmm I though it was great.

Enjoyed it thoroughly.

[Cha]

109. The WOC Booed BS at#SheThePeople

because he tried to use "I marched with MLK" to avoid answering a question about what he'd do to fight white supremacists.

Link to tweet

Instead of addressing the problem, Nina Turner escalates it and blames the audience.

The boos started when he couldn't explain how he'll appeal to black women. I'm with the WOC @ #SheThePeople.

The BS team should have put their energy into figuring out how to win a room full of black women before he came to #SheThePeople.

[MustLoveBeagles]

122. He should've been more prepared

He was dodging their questions and reciting the same old talking points. The audience rightly wasn't having any of it. I honestly wonder what he was expecting when he agreed to appear there. If he couldn't or wouldn't prepare for this in advance, why did he even bother? I think he would've been better off not going at all. Instead of blaming the hosts and the audience for what happened, his campaign needs to take responsibility and reflect on what went wrong and make an effort to improve. Even Tulsi Gabbard did a much better job than he did.

[Cha]

126. "Instead of blaming the hosts and the audience for what happened, his campaign needs to take

responsibility.."

Yes, Exactly, MustLoveBeagles!

[PatSeg]

124. I understand that

I've heard numerous people explain the "why" and I can understand that, but I just don't like booing and jeering in a large crowd, unless it is an extreme situation. A better response would have been silence, a nice uncomfortable prolonged period of silence, especially when the speaker is expecting or hoping for applause.

The jeering reminds me too much of a Trump crowd. I've heard enough of those kinds of crowds to last me lifetime, I hate to see Democrats behave in the same manner.

[Cha]

127. I'm glad they did it.. it was too

important for them to sit passively by while he droned on about what he did 56 years ago.. when the question was a vital one for the here and now.

Then he sends Nina Turner to go out there and escalate it instead of addressing the problem.

John Lewis and other Democratic leaders were Booed by BS fans at the convention.. what did he have to say about that?

[PatSeg]

138. I guess I just disagree

with the tactics even though I understand the sentiment involved. Of course, I am offended by the Bernie supporters booing other Democratic leaders and the lack of apology from Bernie. I hate to see a replay of the divisiveness of 2016. I think we can make a conscious effort to be civil with one another.

Meanwhile, republicans just love this sort of thing and trolls/bots will feed the fire.

[George II]

9. This is the same woman who addressed a rally/town hall a few weeks ago, referring to....

...."yellow people" and "red people"!

[dalton99a]

12. +1. Evidently that's how revolutionairies talk

Cornel West on Bernie, Trump, and Racism

MH: Appreciate it. Great to have you on the show finally. I’ve been waiting to have you on. Bernie Sanders formally announced his candidacy for president of the United States near his birthplace in Brooklyn this past weekend. You, Dr. West, famously endorsed brother Bernie over Hillary Clinton back in 2016. Will you be backing him again this time around?

CW: Well, as you know, I was blessed to do over a hundred events for my dear brother. And this is the first time I’ve had a chance to publicly endorse him again, but yes, indeed. I’ll be in his corner that we’re going to win this time. And it has to do with the Martin Luther King like criteria of assessing a candidate namely the issues of militarism, poverty, materialism, and racism, xenophobia in all of its forms that includes any kind of racism as you know against black people, brown people, yellow people, anybody, Arabs, Muslims, Jews, Palestinians, Kashmirians, Tibetans and so forth. So that there’s no doubt that the my dear brother Bernie stands shoulders above any of the other candidates running in the Democratic primary when it comes to that Martin Luther King-like standards or criteria.

MH: You think you can get him to move on reparations? Because he was asked on ABC’s The View about whether he backed it and he said well, you know, we’ve got crises in our communities and there’s other better ways to address that than by “just writing out a check.” A lot of people criticized him for that as you say, do you think he can move on that like he’s moved on other issues? That people like you persuade him to a different position?

CW: No doubt about that, but the core is ensuring that there’s fundamental transformation in the racist system under which we live so that the lives of black and brown and yellow peoples are much better. And so, that’s the real issue. And so, it seems to me I don’t want reparations to be an issue that gets us away from him taking a stand on those issues so much better than any other of the other candidates.

https://theintercept.com/2019/03/07/cornel-west-on-bernie-trump-and-racism/

[George II]

17. Last night Cornell West was on Anderson Cooper's show, and he immediately launched....

....into a tirade about Joe Biden, and when he referred to Biden as a "milquetoast neoliberal" I couldn't take another second of it.

Who today, in the 21st century, refers to Asians as "yellow people" or Native Americans as "red people"?

[Iliyah]

88. Gosh, 2016 all over again?

[comradebillyboy]

89. When I see BS supporters like Cornell West calling perfectly good Democrats

'neoliberals', I begin to think noeliberals are the good guys after all. And I'm not even a Joe Biden fan.

[Cha]

116. Cornel West is a "milqtoast neo-liberal"- Jill Stein voter..

does he know about anything.

[StarfishSaver]

117. Cornel West isn't a revolutionary

He's just loud.

[NYMinute]

10. Nina should have told Bernie about being truthful

Last edited Sat Apr 27, 2019, 11:07 AM - Edit history (1)

Bernie NEVER marched with MLK Jr. in SELMA. That claim is FALSE.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sanders-mlk-selma-march/

If he marched somewhere else, there is no photographic evidence that I know of .. perhaps someone here can post it to enlighten me.

[Uncle Joe]

11. Take you own advice and be truthful,

Bernie never claimed to be in Selma.

[ehrnst]

14. Just his supporters....

Supporters right here on DU - where that rumor started before going viral - as per the snopes article.

Bernie did eventually go to Selma though.

[Uncle Joe]

21. Some supporters thought it was Bernie because of a strong resemblance in the pics.

That's not the same as Bernie claiming he was there and you should know that.

You should also know that Bernie was booed and heckled no sooner than the words left his mouth that he marched with Martin Luther King in D.C. so it had nothing to do with him not addressing the questions.

Some in the audience as Nina Turner most eloquently phrased it were just trying to "take Bernie's history away."

No other candidate was treated with that kind of disrespect.

I encourage everyone to view both videos including Nina's Speech at the rally in Fort Worth.

[ehrnst]

30. When did I say that Sanders claimed to be?

Nice Strawman...

Bernie was heckled because the answer to a question about why he wasn't answering the question was name-dropping MLK as a defense... Much like "Some of my best friends..."

So, no, they were not trying to "take Bernie's history away" they were expressing frustration that his throws that back at them INSTEAD of being interested or informed about the subjects they were asking him about.

No other candidate was treated with that kind of disrespect.

Precisely the point - because no other candidate phoned it in, let alone got defensive when called out on phoning it in. Bernie wanted to start his memorized loop on his usual comfortable topics, and the audience wasn't going to accept that as a substitute for giving them the basic respect of listening to their questions and answer them.

I encourage you to watch the video, and remember it's a poor speaker that blames the audience when his message falls flat, and they inform him of it, and thus give him a chance to improve his communication.

Especially if the other speakers, as you pointed out, did not experience that "disrespectful" response from that same audience.

He just didn't have the preparation, or the interest in the audience's questions. He showed no empathy, just a defensive "I marched with MLK, isn't that enough for you people?" evasion. That was on Bernie to have prepared, not the audience to put up with it.

Bernie couldn't control the questions, and tried to steer the discussion away from the issues back to his favorite talking points - in the worst tradition of a status quo stump speech.

[Uncle Joe]

34. Bernie was trying to set the stage by citing his history in order to let

She the People and any television viewers know his commitment to civil rights and fighting against institutional racism of all types.

You nor anyone else knows what Bernie was going to say next because he was heckled by some in the audience the moment he started building the foundation of his life to communicate where his passions lay.

[NYMinute]

41. He has been setting the stage since 2015

Isn't it set yet?

[ehrnst]

44. He didn't 'set the stage' he was on the defensive, and gave it instead of an answer...

I saw him getting defensive about his answers and threw out "I marched with MLK on Washington" as a bone to people who were pointing out that he was blowing off their question about what he would do about violent white supremacists. His history of activism is irrelevant to the answer to that question, and certainly not a substitute for an answer. His evasion in answering is very relevant.

You nor anyone else knows what Bernie was going to say next because he was heckled by some in the audience the moment he started building the foundation of his life to communicate where his passions lay.

He was going into his usual stump speech,instead of answering the question, just like any politician who is trying to avoid a tough answer. Go into the tried and true script... get in the talking points... So it wasn't hard to predict what he was going to say. Someone who freezes and get testy when challenged or asks a follow up question does not display the mental agility to be POTUS. It's more than giving speeches and having your aides cut in when a journalist asks a follow up question that irritates you.

But lets talk about what he could have said:

I would restore the Homeland Security Domestic Terrorism Unit that Trump disbanded. That unit is the first line to investigating, infiltrating and thwarting white power groups.

Simple. But maybe he didn't know about the disbanding of that group, or maybe it just wasn't of enough interest to him since it didn't involve his usual economics issues. Either way, it was a glaring ommission. You would think he would be briefed on issues that WOC are interested in, but perhaps he wasn't interested in consulting the WOC who he has so publicly listed in his staff hires.

So again - why do you think that this same audience didn't react the same way to the other candidates when they responded to the audience questions?

[MaryMagdaline]

90. Well said.

[Demsrule86]

50. Why couldn't he answer the question about white supremacy?

[JHan]

55. Serious question...

Do you ever have a single criticism of Sanders?

I have my criticisms of Politicians I like because every politician has "flaws" to varying degrees.

But it intrigues me that when Sanders makes obvious errors of judgement, there is an incapability of acknowledging it by his staunchest defenders. I get it, loyalty and all that, and people often lionize individuals instead of ideas.

In this case, as ehrnst noted, his approach was tantamount to a "well you know I have black friends" comment. As if him supposedly marching with MLK is an adequate response to what is happening in America TODAY. And there's context to this. I think the women in the audience were hoping they would get better clarification from Sanders, they hoped his message had evolved on this and then he put his foot in it immediately because he became defensive...

You can't expect POC to forget his statements about racist voters who may not be racist because they feel uncomfortable voting for someone who is black. I saw rationalizations of that on DU which shocked me, rationalizations from people calling themselves liberal.

This was his opportunity to clarify himself better and he did not. For those who worship the idea that message is all that matters, and that Bernie is a great messenger, the refusal to see the obvious failure here is intriguing.

[ehrnst]

57. I understand that he "annoints Democratic ideas, then presents them to the public."

Not what happened here. He tried to present his usual status quo talking points, when he was supposed to listen first to what he needed to present.

He refused to listen to a group of WOC who were asking him what he would do about White Supremacists.

[JHan]

59. I mean the communication failure here is so damn obvious.

"He tried to present his usual status quo talking points, when he was supposed to listen first to what he needed to present.

Exactly this.

[ehrnst]

66. He should have been grateful to She the People for the opportunity,

especially concerning the discussion about his 'getting' issues that POC are concerned about, but seemed miffed that they didn't consider it an honor that someone who marched 50 years ago and heard MLK speak would take the time to explain to them what they should be interested in.

[Cha]

113. The WOC Booed BS at#SheThePeople

because he tried to use "I marched with MLK" to avoid answering a question about what he'd do to fight white supremacists.

Link to tweet

Instead of addressing the problem, Nina Turner escalates it and blames the audience.

The boos started when he couldn't explain how he'll appeal to black women. I'm with the WOC @ #SheThePeople.

The BS team should have put their energy into figuring out how to win a room full of black women before he came to #SheThePeople.

[George II]

20. Then why were his surrogates etc. irate when John Lewis TRUTHFULLY said, in reference to...

...the Selma march, that he never saw Sanders?

Sanders does, however, repeatedly say that he was in the March on Washington "with" MLK, implying he was part of the MLK group. In fact, he was AT the March on Washington, at which MLK spoke. There also were 249,999 others at that event. It's interesting that he never mentions any other demonstrations, marches, activism that he participated in after that afternoon in August, 1963.

[Uncle Joe]

24. You might try using John Lewis' words TRUTHFULLY, he wasn't referring to just Selma

(snip)

“I never saw him,” Lewis said. “I never met him.”

On Saturday, he said he had not meant to express doubt “that Senator Sanders participated in the civil rights movement, neither was I attempting to disparage his activism”.

(snip)

“I was responding to a reporter’s question who asked me to assess Senator Sanders’ civil rights record. I said that when I was leading and was at the center of pivotal actions within the civil rights movement, I did not meet Senator Bernie Sanders at any time.

“The fact that I did not meet him in the movement does not mean I doubted that Senator Sanders participated in the civil rights movement, neither was I attempting to disparage his activism. Thousands sacrificed in the 1960s whose names we will never know, and I have always given honor to their contribution.”

(snip)


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/13/john-lewis-congressional-black-caucus-bernie-sanders-civil-rights-movement

[George II]

26. Yes, he said "I never saw him, I never met him." in the 1960s. That's what he said, and....

....he got slammed for saying that.

[Uncle Joe]

31. The inference taken was that Bernie didn't participate in the 1960s civil right movements.

That's why John came out with the clarification that I just posted.

John never saw Bernie but anyone with Internet access could find Bernie's civil rights history in Chicago 1962 four years before Martin Luther King came to Chicago where he was struck by a stone thrown by a racist.

[George II]

35. And BS likes to "infer" that he was "with" MLK at the 1963 march when, in fact he wasn't....

I don't go around telling people or implying that I was "with" Bill Clinton on the campaign trail in 1992 simply because I attended a rally in my town back then where he spoke.

I've asked this dozens of times, not of you however, without ever getting an answer. After the 1963 March on Washington what has Sanders done in the civil rights movement? Anything in the 1970s? Anything in the 1980s?

By the way, when MLK went to Chicago four years after 1962, Sanders was already living in Vermont.

[ehrnst]

38. Not to mention touring Europe during the height of the Vietnam war protests...

[Uncle Joe]

42. Bernie doesn't "infer," he states unequivocally that he was there, and who are you to say he wasn't?

When Martin came to Chicago in 1966 Bernie had already graduated from college.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/02/20/bernie-sanders-1963-arrest-video-pkg.wgn

[ehrnst]

45. "But he endorsed Jessie Jackson!" attempt to derail

Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2019, 09:52 AM - Edit history (1)

Like that's supposed to be an answer to "What would you do about violent white supremacists?"

And the strawman that someone inferred he wasn't at the march is spectacular! Your outrage is noted!



What part of "his history is irrelevant to the question of what he would do as POTUS about the current situation with White supremacist violence" is escaping you?

250,000 people would say they marched on Washington, but marching "with MLK" infers much more.




BTW - Charlton Heston and Mitch McConnell were also "with MLK" that day in DC...

[Uncle Joe]

56. Your post would make sense if Jesse Jackson didn't believe in civil rights

and wasn't against violent white supremacists.

Bernie Sanders has been a vocal opponent against violent white supremacists his whole life and anyone that knows his history, words and actions knows this to true.

To deny this is to deny reality and history.

[ehrnst]

64. And you still continue to try to derail...

Jesse Jackson's campaign has nothing to do with the answer to the question of what Bernie would do about violent white supremacists if he was POTUS.

Bernie didn't answer the question, even when asked a second time. You are attempting the same sort of evasion...

To deny this is to deny reality and what's in that video.

My post hit it on the head both where the question was concerned and your frustration at not being able to derail the discussion of how Bernie didn't answer and how the audience was rightly frustrated with evasions.

The other candidates didn't get the same frustration directed at them from the same audience because the other candidates didn't evade the questions.

[George II]

65. I never said he wasn't there (in DC), but he certainly among the dignitaries, or....

....among MLK's delegation. He was simply one of 250,000 who surrounded the reflecting pool that day. Yes, he says unequivocally that he was there, but he also always throws in "with MLK".

[ehrnst]

67. I was at Capitol Arena with Fleetwood Mac last month.

True story!

[Uncle Joe]

71. "Simply?" In 1963 segregationist America!

Every person there threw in with Martin Luther King and were part of the Civil Rights movement against the overwhelming majority of their elder white Americans, north, south, east and west that weren't and still believed in keeping the races apart.

[George II]

76. This all goes back to the OP and Nina Turner bashing the people at the She the People....

...event, where Sanders claimed that he was at the March on Washington "with" MLK, and I think the crowd more groaned than booed.

[ehrnst]

99. He acted like he was doing them a favor, so he could tell them what they should be asking about

instead of being grateful to be given an opportunity to quell fears that he has issues communicating with and listening to WOC, who are the most reliable Democratic voter base.

Then he insults them further by sending a WOC out to misrepresent what they said to give him cover for being clueless and tone deaf at the She the People event.

[ehrnst]

98. Charleton Heston and Mitch McConnell were there on the Mall that day "with MLK," too.

Would that be a good enough answer if asked what they would do about White Supremacists? Would that be enough cred to make those irritated women sit down and shut up if Mitch or Charleton was speaking?

I'll ask yet again, and maybe you'll have an answer:

Why didn't those same women react in the same way to the other Democratic candidates there?

[ehrnst]

36. The inference that Sanders was a civil rights icon is not accurate.

Especially when he was silent while his supporters booed someone who was a real civil rights icon that committed for the long haul, and endured far more than being hit by a rock and arrested once.

What the She the People audience could have said and did not when he threw "I marched with MLK in 1963" at them as a defense for not showing any real understanding of their questions:


"You then moved far far away from the where civil rights movement was active to reside in lily white Vermont, while other people carried on doing the hard, often bloody work of civil rights activism, in the belly of the beast, risking their lives, getting their heads cracked open and attacked by police dogs, arrested many times, and sometimes shot and buried in shallow graves. Being in that march with thousands of other people does not excuse you from dismissing the our questions on the issue of Violent White Supremacy because it's not one of your brand issues. It is not a substitute for caring about issues that are not included in the status quo stump speech you're used to."

So, in my book, they showed great restraint.

Why do you think that none of the other candidates got the response from them that Sanders did? What was the variable there?

[StarfishSaver]

119. I know scores if not hundreds of people who were at the March on Washington

But I have never heard even one of them - not a single one - claim to have "marched with Dr. King."

People who went to the March say, "I was at the March." Saying "I marched with Dr. King" means something different, something much more personal and engaged. Ralph Abernathy marched with Dr. King. Andy Young marched with Dr. King. John Lewis marched with Dr. King. Harry Belafonte marched with Dr. King. Dorothy Height marched with Dr. King. Even Charlton Heston marched with Dr. King.

Bernie Sanders did NOT march with Dr. King. He got on a bus and went to a march with a quarter million other people and then got back on the bus and went back to college.

[Uncle Joe]

123. No person can project their feelings on an event to another person,

that's entirely subjective.

"I was at the march," "I marched with" (it was called a march) is in he eye of the beholder.

To Bernie this was very personal and he felt by his own words that he was marching with Martin Luther King.

It was only the year before in 1962 segregated Chicago when Bernie was arrested chained to two black women, (photos are on the link) I have no doubt Bernie felt he was "marching with Martin" even though King wasn't physically there.

You make a distinction without a difference.

NATIONAL VFB (March 5, 2019) — Yesterday, Chicago Tribune officials emailed this little ol’ blog, which we call Veterans for Bernie, with a veiled threat of taking legal action if we didn’t remove pictures of Bernie Sanders’ 1963 Civil Rights arrest from three separate blog posts. “Our legal team has been notified,” it warned.

VFB is a personal WordPress blog used by veterans to educate and organize around Bernie Sanders’ Presidential election. Nothing more.

You can’t donate to us. We don’t accept donations.

You can’t buy anything from us, because we don’t sell anything.

(snip)

https://vetsforbernie.org/2019/03/chicago-tribune-threatened-us-with-legal-action-for-bernie-sanders-arrest-photo-blog-posts/

It seems there are more than a few hecklers that want to hide Bernie's history.

[EffieBlack]

125. Unfortunately, this bears repeating ... Again

Why "Bernie was arrested in '63" is an inappropriate answer to criticism of his civil rights record

Let me preface this by saying this is in no way an attack on - or even a criticism of - Bernie Sanders or a diminishment of his civil rights activism in the 1960s or an effort to "refight the primaries."

But all too frequently, any attempt to question or, God forbid, criticize, Sanders' record, attitudes or comments on civil rights today is met with a reminder that he was arrested while protesting for civil rights in 1963, often with an accompanying photograph and sarcastic comments such as "Here's a picture of Bernie hating black people," or similarly snide remarks.

So, let me explain why such responses to questions about Sanders' current record are not only completely beside the point, but show an ignorance about the civil rights movement, not to mention an arrogance and paternalism that is very galling to me and many other African Americans. Maybe, once folks understand this in a little more depth, they will be less likely to dismiss us in such a way.

First, I think it's great that Bernie Sanders and tens of thousands of other young white college students participated in civil rights protests across the country during the 1960s. They truly made a difference, whatever their contribution.

Some, like Bernie, participated in protests at or near their schools. Some traveled to other parts of the country to protest. Some went into the deep South to help organize and work on an ongoing basis. Some joined protests that put them in serious danger - such as the Freedom Riders who had no idea whether they would come back alive and, sadly, some did not. But whatever the degree and depth of their participation, every one made a difference.

Bernie Sanders' participation was admirable and laudable and appreciated. But he did not get involved or make the kinds of sacrifices that many other students made. Again - that's not a knock on him, just the reality. He participated in protests in which he knew that he would not face great harm or risk to his body, life or future. He joined a protest in which the students planned to be arrested, practiced for it (the movement trained protesters in non-violence and how to be arrested so as not to be injured or accused of resisting arrest). He also likely knew, going in, that, like most white students in these protests, he would not be physically abused, his rights would be protected, he would be released shortly thereafter and his penalty would be a small fine - in this case $25 - and the arrest would not have any negative impact on his education or future career.

The benefit of this type of protest did not come in the suffering or brutality that many black and white protesters endured elsewhere, but in showing the country the power and numbers behind the movement. And they were very important and very effective.

So, I have nothing but praise for what Bernie did in 1963. He was a small part of something very important. He did the right thing. He could have stayed in his comfy dorm room, but he went out, inconvenienced himself, and lent himself to the fight. He was on the right side of history.

But people should recognize that participating in a righteous fight in the past does not, in and of itself, completely define a person for all time. Charlton Heston marched with Dr. King. As a college student, Mitch McConnell participated in the March on Washington and worked for a senator who helped to break the filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. I'm certainly not comparing Bernie to these two men, but just noting that support for civil rights in 1964 does not, by itself, mean that someone's positions can't be and shouldn't be questioned. And it surely doesn't make those who participated in it civil rights experts or icons who must be revered by virtue of what they did 55 years ago.

But more important is this simple fact: The civil rights movement was not a gift to black people. It wasn't a movement in which white people GAVE something to or did something for us. It was a movement, led by black people, in which Americans of all races joined together, prayed together, fought together and died together not to save us but to save AMERICA.

So, in my view, the notion that participation in the movement confers on a white person some special grace because they did something for black people and, as a result, black people must be forever grateful and cannot ever raise any question about their positions is not just insulting, it shows an incredible lack of understanding of what the civil rights movement really was. And it reveals a shallow and paternalistic view of civil rights and social justice as a movement based on an erroneous assumption that YOU did something for US and we should be forever grateful - and if we aren't, we are somehow betraying YOU.

For me, the bottom line is that Bernie Sanders did the right thing in 1963. I give him a lot of credit for that. But that credit is not unlimited and it definitely isn't a bottomless store of goodwill that shields him from any responsibility for or scrutiny of his subsequent actions, positions, views, or comments today. I appreciate what he did, but I don't OWE him anything, including reverent acceptance of whatever he says or does, for it.

So, again, I say, Thank you, Senator Sanders for doing the right thing 55 years ago and joining with us to help bring America closer to the more perfect union that we ALL want it to be. Now, let's talk about how you can continue to walk on that path with us now.

There's another point I want to make today. Just as Dr. King predicted, the rise of black southerners to full citizenship also lifted their white neighbors. "It is history's wry paradox," he said, "that when Negroes win their struggle to be free, those who have held them down will themselves be free for the first time."

After Selma, free white and black southerners crossed the bridge to the new South, leaving hatred and isolation on the far side—building vibrant cities, thriving economies, and great universities, a new South still enriched by the oldtime religion and rhythms and rituals we all love, now open to all things modern and people of all races and faiths from all over the world, a new South in which whites have gained at least as much as blacks from the march to freedom. Without Selma, Atlanta would never have had the Super Bowl or the Olympics. And without Selma, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton would never have been elected President of the United States.
...
My fellow Americans, this day has a special meaning for me, for I, too, am a son of the South, the old, segregated South. And those of you who marched 35 years ago set me free, too, on Bloody Sunday, free to know you, to work with you, to love you, to raise my child to celebrate our differences and hallow our common humanity.

I thank you all for what you did here. Thank you, Andy and Jesse and Joe, for the lives you have lived since. Thank you, Coretta, for giving up your beloved husband and the blessings of a normal life. Thank you, Ethel Kennedy, for giving up your beloved husband and the blessings of a normal life.

And thank you, John Lewis, for the beatings you took and the heart you kept wide open. Thank you for walking with the wind, hand in hand with your brothers and sisters, to hold America's trembling house down. Thank you for your vision of the beloved community, an America at peace with itself.

I tell you all, as long as Americans are willing to hold hands, we can walk with any wind; we can cross any bridge. Deep in my heart, I do believe, we shall overcome."

President Bill Clinton, Remarks on the 35th Anniversary of the 1965 Voting Rights March in Selma, Alabama
March 5, 2000

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=58210

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210468176

[Uncle Joe]

130. Bernie no sooner got the words out of his mouth before some started heckling him, he was

trying to make a larger point about his history and not just during the 1960s but that's when he was cut off.

Whether everyone in that town hall knew Bernie's history is irrelevant, when one person yelled out ("we know!" ) he was speaking to a televised audience as well, many of which may not have known.

Bernie's history in regards to Civil Rights in segregated Chicago of the early 1960s whether as dangerous or not to body and life as others helped shape his character, empathy and courage in taking on institutional powers in protecting the most vulnerable.

Bernie has followed this North Star throughout his life and political career.

Bernie nor I are claiming his history is the be all, nor as "a gift" but history does forge one's passions and Bernie was trying let the people know where he stood to reassure them that if President he would look out for and listen to them, it's too bad some hecklers couldn't give him the same courtesy.

[EffieBlack]

134. That's probably because they'd heard it before ...

many times ...

They were likely groaning at the thought I'd having to sit through that sane story again and sick and tired of being expected to give Bernie extra credit and a lifetime of thanks for doing what many decent people did at the time (including, probably, a whole lot of people they know personally and possibly they themselves) but don't brag about ad nauseum.

[Uncle Joe]

137. Yes that would have taken at least an entire minute or two, short time in

trying to gauge a candidate for President on an issue that one cares about and as I mentioned Bernie was speaking to a televised audience.

The individual yelling out "we know" has no idea what every American viewing that town hall knows or knew.

Bernie was telling his history, something of which he rarely did 2016, it took prodding from his campaign staff to get him to open up in 2020.

I believe that's what the true concern is.

[EffieBlack]

141. He never answered the question

He was unprepared and condescending.

If this had been any other candidate performing this poorly in front of any other audience (i.e., not black), I have no doubt that those attacking the audience and twisting themselves into knots defending Bernie would have been just fine with the response.

But, for some reason, black women aren't given the same respect or "permission" to express ourselves as other folks.

We're not stupid and not to be taken for granted. And any candidate who treats us as such will be in for a rude awakening.

[Uncle Joe]

142. He was never given the chance, they cut him off as he was speaking to a televised town hall,

not even giving the good graces of a minute or two's patience for Bernie to make his point.

I don't care what race or gender anyone is, doing that lowers any moral authority to preach about respect.

[EffieBlack]

143. Did you actually watch it

It sounds like you didn't because had you seen it you would know that your description isn't accurate.

The truth is that he was given plenty of time and opportunity to answer the question. The audible groans came ONLY after he had to be asked the question a second time because he completely failed to answer it the first time around. And and on his second swing, launched into his condescending and non-responsive "I was at the March on Washington with Dr. King and was one if the few white politicians to support Jesse Jackson" lecture.

[Uncle Joe]

146. Bernie wasn't finished speaking and the only person to determine that is the speaker unless

there is a stated time limit on answers.

Bernie was making his case by his history as to why he would be on the side of African American Women but was never able to finish because of a few hecklers that just couldn't handle that inconvenient truth.

[EffieBlack]

148. African American women were asking him what he would do

He didn't answer the question. They asked him again. He launched into his "history" (attending a march 56 years ago and supporting a black candidate 35 years ago). At that point, any sane person would be groaning out loud.

If Sanders can't answer a simple question about what he would do on a specific matter without prefacing it with a case history of having done something good on civil rights in his 20s - something every informed woman in the audience likely already knew - he is not ready for prime time.

The bottom line is that Sanders doesn't know how to connect with minorities and when called to do so, falls back on his "Did you know I marched with Dr. King?"

And then, when black folks react with less than slavish "Bernie is so dreamy" devotion, as sure as day follows night, his followers swarm us to whitesplain (that applies to Nina, too) why WE are wrong and rude and cluekess because we just don't understand how awesome Bernie truly is.

Bernie blew it. HE'S the problem, not us. If he wants to be president, he'd better learn how to do better. And your lectures about how Bernie was mistreated by the audience only dig him in deeper.

[Uncle Joe]

149. Now you're just using hyperbole, giving a speaker respect

has nothing to do with whether one has to believe "how awesome" he or she is.

It has everything to do with just listening and that's pretty much it, if you don't agree with the message then you don't agree with it but that's no excuse to cut off and heckle a candidate that has stood up for every American including the town hall's predominant race and gender throughout his entire life.

[ehrnst]

156. So tell us, why didn't any other candidate have this reaction to this audience?

Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2019, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)

No one can seem to answer that. Inconvenient truth?

Bernie was making his case by his history as to why he would be on the side of African American Women but was never able to finish because of a few hecklers that just couldn't handle that inconvenient truth.

You said that no one could know what Bernie was going to say, but now you know what he was thinking?

"A member of the audience asked Sanders “What do you believe is the federal government’s role to fight against the rise of white nationalism and white terrorist acts, and how do you plan to lead on that in your first year as president?”

Sanders delivered a lengthy response that wandered from a critique of Trump’s “demagoguery” to policies like immigration reform and Medicare for All, but did not address white supremacist terrorism. It was during this reply that the audience began to jeer.

Moderator Amy Allison had to refocus Sanders, telling him “The core of the question is about, as president what would you do with the rise of white supremacist violence, to protect our communities?”

“You know, as somebody who, I know I date myself a little bit here, but I actually was at the March on Washington with Dr King back in 1963,” Sanders replied, to audible groans from the audience, “and as somebody who actively supported Jesse Jackson’s campaign, as one of the few white elected officials to do so in 88, I have dedicated my life to the fight against racism and sexism and discrimination of all forms.”

So switching his non-answer to talking about his past was "setting the stage?" Why not a simple, no-brainer response like, "I will restore the Homeland Security Domestic Violence Unit that Trump disbanded. That is the first line in stinging plans by these groups before they can carry them out."

Why would he need "setting the stage" that "he would be on the side of African American Women" with a reciation of his history after a long rambling non-answer? Wouldn't listening to them and respectfully answering their questions do that? Do you think that they were incapable of thinking that he "he would be on the side of African American Women?"

It was obvious he hadn't prepared for their most predictable questions - trying to tapdance back to his bullet list stump speech, and clearly wasn't appreciative of what an opportunity that they were giving him. In fact the opposite - he acted like he was granting them the opportunity to listen to his stump speech in person.

He blew off their question with the status quo politician sidestep, got defensive when they vocally expressed frustration,
and you want to portray him a "victim" of a bunch of rude WOC, who clearly just "couldn't handle" someone who is talking about his civil rights history?

Then this he sends out a WOC to say with a straight face to a cheering, overwelmingly white crowd, that the group of WOC were "booing his civil rights record," and his white supporters defend that as not being a very bad look, at least?

Think about it, Joe. Just think about the inconvenient truths that you are desperately trying to avoid.

Kandice Webber, Houston Rising, explained what they needed to hear from him clearly enough.

“If economics is Bernie Sanders’ sweet spot then you need to talk about economics as it pertains to black women and he didn’t do that. One of the things that were fighting for right now is to stop feeding off the scraps of the white man’s table. Bernie Sanders gave us scraps today; we came for a feast.”

He's stepped in it, and instead of acknowledging that he did and wipe it off his shoe, he's tracking it all over the rug.

Barack Obama was invited to a candidates' forum on health care reform in 2008. He declined because he didn't feel he had his policies developed enough to talk about. Sanders does not seem to have that sort of self-awareness or wise campaign counsel - at least that he listens to. But he's not known for his listening skills, which is somehow is considered a virtue by many of his supporters.

[Cha]

178. Thank You, ehrnst!

[betsuni]

132. Thank you, Effie.

This should be an OP.

[mcar]

133. This is so well said

Thank you for posting. I fear it won't make much difference, but I appreciate it.

And it's nice to see you here.

[EffieBlack]

135. It was an OP

But every now and then I've had to repost it ...

[mcar]

139. Can't say I'm surprised

[ehrnst]

32. What they REALLY slammed Lewis for was saying that he did see Bill and Hillary...

“I chaired the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee for three years, from 1963-1966. I was involved in sit-ins, Freedom Rides, the March on Washington, the March from Selma to Montgomery ... but I met Hillary Clinton, I met President Clinton.”

[NYMinute]

46. It was a passion for Hillary and Bill

whilst just a photo-op for bragging rights for Bernie.

People can spot the insincerity easily.

[ehrnst]

51. When Bernie was writing 'essays' in VT, Hillary was in Mississippi going door to door

gathering data on what children of color had no public shool available to them.

She gave up an offer of a high paying corporate legal job to work with Marian Wright Edelman.

That conveniently gets left out of civil rights discussions, but the Mothers of the Movement (more women of color) didn't ignore it.

They got some choice dismissive insults on social media for that.

[betsuni]

101. +1

[betsuni]

102. Exactly.

[mcar]

18. Scolding AA women for "disrespecting" BS?

[writes3000]

19. I absolutely detest Nina Turner. She's a big reason why, for me, BS is last on the list.

Don’t like her. Don’t trust her. And she’s a horrible advocate.

Clearly, that’s who Bernie wants representing him. That’s a huge flag for me.

[Gothmog]

22. Washington PostAnalysis: Why women of color booed Bernie Sanders at a recent speech

Link to tweet

Later, former Ohio state lawmaker Nina Turner, the most high-profile woman of color on the Sanders campaign, referred to the audience’s reaction, asking “in what world” was it appropriate for the conference attendees to boo Sanders for sharing his story of protesting with King.

Link to tweet

Sanders’s finger wag — and Turner’s talk — suggest the Sanders campaign may continue to struggle to draw in voters of color.

By focusing on a 50-year-old anecdote, Sanders missed a key opportunity to explain what he’s done for women of color in the past 10 years and how he’d tackle today’s challenges. And when listeners expressed their frustration, Sanders seemed dismissive and unwilling to engage. The optics of a predominantly white crowd applauding Turner for chastising women of color only fueled this message more....

In this campaign, Sanders has an opportunity to do better with minority voters. Pushing back on voters who express concern is not likely to win Sanders more support from constituencies he needs to capture the Democratic nomination.

[George II]

27. What neither of them ever say is that there were 249,999 others "with" MLK at that march...

...in 1963. They're trying to give people the impression that he was arm in arm with MLK at the front of the march, while in fact he was only one somewhere in this crowd:

[lapucelle]

94. What's Nina Turner the senator of? N/T

[Cha]

118. BS just doesn't get it..

By focusing on a 50-year-old anecdote, Sanders missed a key opportunity to explain what he’s done for women of color in the past 10 years and how he’d tackle today’s challenges. And when listeners expressed their frustration, Sanders seemed dismissive and unwilling to engage. The optics of a predominantly white crowd applauding Turner for chastising women of color only fueled this message more....

Instead of addressing the problem.. Nina Turner Escalates it by blaming the WOC Audience! You can't make this up!

Thanks for the snips from WaPo, Goth

[calguy]

25. Nina Turner is not a top tier political mind

But given the competition for top tier staff people this time around, she's probably the best Bernie could convince to join him.

[NYMinute]

48. Her mouth moves way faster than her brain cells. nt

[Kahuna7]

73. I wonder if she would still agree with..

"Any blue just won't do."

[Blue_true]

144. I have long viewed her as having the political savvy or a mushroom. nt

[dalton99a]

74. +1. Diamond and Silk are taken

[brush]

84. Simone Sanders, once his press sec. is now with the Biden campaign.

[ehrnst]

100. But having a WOC as his campaign manager seems to be handy for giving him cover

after he falls flat on his face while talking to WOC.

"Look, there is no way Bernie could have been insensitive to WOC! He has a WOC campaign manager! BE QUIET!"

[NYMinute]

49. Handwriting has been on the wall

to end the primary hopes since 2015.

[NYMinute]

58. His message is tired and for the 1970's

It only resonates with angry people who want to tear everything down

[ehrnst]

53. Yep. (nt)

[Thekaspervote]

60. Oh Nina.. we know you are worried as the polls show your guy losing points in the polls!

[ehrnst]

82. He sure didn't think she was useful as a source for what WOC might ask him about

but we see now what he does believe her to be useful for - Scolding and falsely accusing other WOC in a way that would end his campaign if he himself said those words.

[sheshe2]

85. Wow.

Nina Turner trots out and castigates the audience of #SheThePeople for booing when their question was not answered? Brilliant move, Nina. Brilliant.

[betsuni]

91. The world where you're asked about 2020 and you talk about what you did in college in the '60s.

[Buzz cook]

93. Charlton Heston marched with MLK

And by the time he died thought we needed guns to protect ourselves from black people.

But that is besides the point. If you are asked about something now, today, and your answer is about 50 years ago...well you've failed to answer the question.

[ehrnst]

96. Mitch McConnell was there too. (nt)

[Blue_true]

145. Heston was a very prominent marcher also.

The issue is WHAT has Bernie done about problems POC women face today.

[Cha]

104. So Nina Turner thought it was a good idea to admonish a crowd full of Black women in Houston

Link to tweet

[ucrdem]

108. They will never learn.

[Cha]

110. The BS team should have put their energy into figuring out how to win a room full of black women

before he came to #SheThePeople.

Instead of addressing the problem.. Nina Turner escalates it by blaming the audience.

They haven't so far.

[ucrdem]

112. "Senator Bernie Sanders is consistent" says Nina.

Yes. All too.

[Cha]

114. lol. That's their Go To.

she should listen to herself talk.

[ucrdem]

107. "... if they stood up with the Reverend": well, he didn't.

By his own admission Sanders stood with the crowd on the Mall when MLK gave his "I have a dream" speech in Aug 1963, and even that has not to my knowledge been definitively documented. And it seems he never went to Selma in those years. And yet surrogates like Turner continue to propagate a misleading meme that Sanders played a more important role in the Civil Rights movement. And that is probably the reason he was booed.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sanders-mlk-selma-march/

[StarfishSaver]

115. "In what world when you mention the fact you were at the March on Washington do people boo that?"

In MY world.


When you're asked about what you're going to do about the rise in white supremacist violence and you start talking about "marching with Dr. King" at the March on Washington 56 years ago, don't be surprised if you get booed.

In fact, in my world, he'd be lucky he didn't get cussed out.

[Cha]

129. If you paid attention you would

know.

The WOC@#SheThePeople booed BS because he was asked a vital question.. and he tried to use his "I marched with MLK" to avoid answering about what he'd do to "fight white supremacists".

The boos started when he couldn't explain how he'll appeal to black women.

The BS team should have put their energy into figuring out how to win a room full of black women Before he came to #SheThePeople

It was too important for them to sit passively by while he droned on about what he did 56 years ago.. when the question was an important one for the here and now.

Then he sends Nina Turner to go out there and escalate it instead of addressing the problem.

John Lewis and other Democratic leaders were Booed by BS fans at the convention.. what did he have to say about that?

[betsuni]

136. John Lewis/Democratic leaders booed at convention didn't happen/fake news/you're a troll.

Sanders booed because he wouldn't answer a question about 2020, tells us what he did in college instead = YOU PEOPLE WANT TO STIP BERNIE OF HIS HISTORY THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS DON'T YOU KNOW THAT WHAT YOU DO IN COLLEGE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY OTHER TIME OF LIFE YOU PEASANTS WANT THE REVOLUTION YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IT YET.

Geez, what happened to having to earn votes and give a reason to vote for them?

[Cha]

152. LOL.. There's Video!

Maybe BS will come more prepared the next time.. and we all know his "history".. we don't need to keep hearing it over and over again.

Especially when he's asked questions from WOC@#SheThePeople, and inserting that "history" in as a way to deflect from answering the Questions.

He must have thought the "reason" was in the reply about what he did 56 years ago.. and in 1988.

Memo to BS.. don't start a feud with WOC, our Largest Democratic, Most Reliable, Voting Bloc.. it could come back to haunt you.

[StarfishSaver]

140. I think you may have misread my post

Please read it again.

[Cha]

150. OMG! I am so Sorry, StarFishSaver!

MeaCulpa!

I don't know what came over me.. was hurrying to catch a bus.. but there's no excuse for what I wrote to you.

You nailed it!

Forgive me? Valuable lesson learned.

[StarfishSaver]

159. No worries and no apologies necessary!

[Cha]

167. Oh Yes

there was! You were too Kind after I said that awful thing.

[WeekiWater]

121. I feel it was viewed as his...

I have a black friend moment.

This is one of the many problems of having Turner on your team. Instead of campaigning she will spend her time lashing out at the parties base.

[Blue_true]

147. Yeah.

One of those "I didn't beat that guy up because he is Black". "These Nazi tats on my arms? Nothing, some of my friend are Black". "The guy just kept running into my fists" moments.

[ehrnst]

157. Sanders sending a WOC to smear WOC to a cheering very white crowd is very bad optics. (nt)

[Hekate]

164. Nina, "in what world" do Sanders supporters boo John Lewis? Because they did.

[Gothmog]

175. I was there when this happened

I was a Clinton delegate and I was there when John Lewis was booed. The Clinton campaign had a great whipping infrastructure in place my whip warned me about this planned stunt 20 to 30 minutes before it happened. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this stunt and declined

[Hekate]

177. I know, and I am so not going to forget

[ehrnst]

165. Best response to all this...

"and I'm sorry but health care after I've been shot by Dylan Roof isn't what the question was!!!!!!"

Link to tweet

[robbedvoter]

166. So, the audience was also establishment?

From the people who booed John Fucking Lewis!

[Gothmog]

168. This was a bad move by turner

[ehrnst]

169. And her boss. (nt)

[Gothmog]

174. Here is some good polling

Link to tweet