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Member since: 2001
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Progressive ideas/reforms can be abused and needing reform, too: Talking the Recall

As that history says, the Progressive Era initiatives/reforms were intended for "direct Democracy," ways to correct/sidestep legislatures and elections, to fix things done wrong via the institutional channels. Fine.

But what pops up in California (do the other states do it the same way?) is an abuse of the Recall - not just for incompetence, criminality, corruption - but for partisan overturning elections and/or personal ambition (am looking at you/AHhhnuld).

So can our governing systems be reformed, fixed, improved - keeping the good parts - without doing things by collapse and revolution, please?

*** And my personal peeve: Caucuses. They violate the Secret Ballot, suppress those introverts who don't want to blab in public, expose personal views to neighbors/possible co-workers/possible bosses/strangers. Where do those fit in the Progressive reforms?


https://lao.ca.gov BallotAnalysis Initiative
In 1911, California voters approved the constitutional processes of initiative, referendum, and recall. Through these processes, voters can adopt a change in law (an initiative), disapprove a law passed by the Legislature (a referendum), or remove an elected official from office (a recall).Oct 8, 2019

Progressive Era

.... Many Progressives sought to enable the citizenry to rule more directly and circumvent machines, bosses and professional politicians. The institution of the initiative and referendums made it possible to pass laws without the involvement of the legislature, while the recall allowed for the removal of corrupt or under-performing officials, and the direct primary let people democratically nominate candidates, avoiding the professionally dominated conventions. Thanks to the efforts of Oregon State Representative William S. U'Ren and his Direct Legislation League, voters in Oregon overwhelmingly approved a ballot measure in 1902 that created the initiative and referendum processes for citizens to directly introduce or approve proposed laws or amendments to the state constitution, making Oregon the first state to adopt such a system. U'Ren also helped in the passage of an amendment in 1908 that gave voters power to recall elected officials, and would go on to establish, at the state level, popular election of U.S. Senators and the first presidential primary in the United States. In 1911, California governor Hiram Johnson established the Oregon System of "Initiative, Referendum, and Recall" in his state, viewing them as good influences for citizen participation against the historic influence of large corporations on state lawmakers.[105] These Progressive reforms were soon replicated in other states, including Idaho, Washington, and Wisconsin, and today roughly half of U.S. states have initiative, referendum and recall provisions in their state constitutions.[106] ....


Am Self-deleting. The whole O.P. is here:

O.K., not fishing for pity or "hero" worship. Just another like all of us, bad situation

The closest cousins in my growing up were a dude my age and the two sisters. Their family group moved to Florida in the '60s and when my uncle had 30 days' vacation every year they would stay with us.

Long story but the closest cousin to me was (call her "Jane" ). So she and I kept in touch by phone for decades, until her various personal problems led to our break-up. She said something to me that was maliciously offensive, untrue, and ugly. So no contact for about the past six years.

Jane and her family are non-political, but her tendencies are of the wingnut variety. Jane had a headstrong and fraught life history.

So a week or so ago the word got to me that Jane was in the hospital with covid. I knew/suspected that she had not been vaxxed, and she wasn't. Later word was that she was refusing hospitalization, predictably. She did go home and a visiting nurse told her family she should be in the hospital.

My only discussion about all this was with my elderly sister who is Passive Aggressive and prays her Catholic head off over everything, but won't *do* anything. Today I suggested my calling Jane, saying I knew she would take my call, that I would not press hard, would just feel things out. She said that we should just let Jane's family, who are not adept, handle things their own way.

Tonight, fwiw, things "clarified" for me to go ahead and call Jane. I first thought I should call the sister for "permission." Then I decided I don't need permission and just called.

Jane sounded weak and tired. I told her I was just calling to know how she is and she told me. I said that I love her, my sister loves her, another girl cousin she's close to loves her, and another old cousin loves her. She said she knows, that "They've all been driving me crazy." I said I wouldn't keep her on the line and she thanked me.

I then called her sister to tell her and that I had not told Jane what do do. She thanked me.

The legal remedies are out there but our whole family is full of Passive Resisters. So that's that.

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