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Name: Schmengie
Gender: Male
Hometown: Podunk, FL
Home country: USA
Current location: Various.
Member since: Mon Aug 4, 2003, 03:56 PM
Number of posts: 23,740

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Some photos of the Apollo 11 Spacecraft you might not have seen.(Orig. posted 2009) *VERY Pic heavy*

I posted the following 5 years ago in honor of the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 mission. I thought the 45th anniversary might be a good time to repost. The original thread can be seen here.

What follows is that same OP with no changes;

In light of all the Apollo 11 threads and the 40th anniversary of the first lunar landing coming up, I thought some on DU might enjoy this.

I've always been fascinated by our spaceflight programs and came across these images today. They offer a behind-the-scenes glimpse of the assembly process of "the stack". Bear in mind while you look at these photos that all of this was built before the age of complex computers and CAD/CAM by engineers whose most capable calculating device was the slide rule. (Link added for those younger DU'rs who have never seen one)

Apollo 11 S-IC first stage in the Vehicle Assembly Building transfer aisle.

A crane lifts the Saturn first stage.

Workers prepare the S-IVB for mating of the Instrument Unit (pictured left), which houses guidance, control and other Saturn V systems. The ring is the same diameter as the stage the workers are standing on, but it is closer to the camera, thus distorting the perspective.

The S-II second stage is moved into position for mating with the S-IC first stage

This photo shows the S-IVB third stage being hoisted into position for mating with the second stage.

The S-IVB third stage is moved into position for mating

Apollo 11 CSM (Command Service Module) being moved from its work stand for mating

The Apollo 11 Command/Service Module (CSM-107) being readied for transfer to the Vehicle Assembly Building.

This photo shows the Apollo 11 Command-and-Service Module being mated to the spacecraft adapter.

Apollo 11 Saturn V rollout from the Vehicle Assembly Building. 20 May 1969.

Aerial view of the Apollo 11 Saturn V rollout from the Vehicle Assembly Building. 20 May 1969

This photo is a ground-level view of the Apollo 11 Saturn V during transport. The vehicle is 363 feet (111 meters) tall.

Apollo 11 Saturn V on the Crawler as it begins to go up the ramp to Pad 39-A. This photo clearly shows the hydraulic jacking capabilities of the Crawler, keeping the vehicle perfectly straight up as it climbs the grade. Note the diesel smoke as the crawler moves it's multi-million pound load up the hill.

This photo is an aerial view of the Apollo 11 Saturn V moving to the firing position on the pad at the Kennedy Space Center.

Many MANY more photos of this series and the Apollo 11 mission as well as technical data, video, audio and transcripts can be found here

Similar image libraries and data for all the Apollo missions can be found here
Posted by A HERETIC I AM | Sun Jul 20, 2014, 03:23 PM (77 replies)

The Town of Democratic Underground. We've had over 215,000 citizens. What a great place to live.

7 years ago last April I posted the original of this.....essay? That can be read here I made a few minor changes and added a much needed acknowledgement. I have often thought of DU as a little town. Surely it doesn't have 215,000 residents, more like 10 or 15,000 regulars with the rest having either left or just come into town on occasion. But still...this is how I saw it 7 years ago.

Perhaps this can serve many of the newer members to understand how many of us old timers thought of DU before the '08 election. I've been a member of DU since August of 2003. Not as long as some, longer than many. I hope you will find what I wrote enjoyable and interesting.


Welcome to our town. Care to take a little walk with me?

I've lived here for just shy of 11 years now and I like it just fine. It's very diverse, vibrant, active and fairly peaceful. Oh, we have our differences but for the most part, everyone gets along pretty well.

We have several Churches; A Catholic Church, a small Episcopal Church, A Baptist Church, a rather large non-denominational Church as well as a Synagogue and a Mosque. Oh, and a fairly good sized Unitarian Universalist congregation too as well as a vocal and passionate non-religious group. There are clubs and civic organizations to meet all tastes and a very active GLBT community. Here on main street is where many of our inhabitants work, whether it is in the small businesses they own or for some of the national chains that have decided to adhere to our strict zoning laws and scaled down from the large, big-box stores they set up elsewhere. We have a Mall on the edge of town where others work. Very few folks from outside town come here to work but quite a few commute to the city. We have a thriving Industrial park on the other side of town where many more of our inhabitants are employed. Seems to me our unemployment rate is about the same as the national average.

We have a few folks on the outskirts that have rather large properties, a cattle ranch and a few hobby farms, some orchards and several large vegetable producers. The folks that live here come from all walks of life and do almost anything you can think of. We have several Banks, Restaurants, a couple Brokerage Firms, Real Estate offices and Insurance companies. At the end of the block is a gun shop that has a shooting range inside and there is an active group of hunters. There is a Golf Course, a Bowling Alley, Hair Salon and a Barber Shop. Oh....and the Bars. We have several of them. There is quite a lively night life here. In fact, one street is referred to as "The Lounge" because it is lined with Cocktail Lounges and Bars of all types. If you stray over there, make sure you take a serious sense of humor with you. You'll find most are very accommodating and you rarely have to buy your first drink if you are new in town.

The age range is from teenagers to the elderly. I know there are small children here because I can hear them but I never see them. There are a few celebrities, a number of published authors, several filmmakers and quite a few cranky old farts thrown in for good measure! It is rumored that several of our quietest residents are famous in politics and the arts, but they don't say much, they seem to just watch the town through the windows of their homes. All of these tend to add style and color that we quite frankly would miss if they were for some reason to leave our fair city. We have Truck Drivers, Pilots, Sanitation Workers, Waiters and Waitresses, Carpenters, Bricklayers, Craftsmen, Clerks, CPA's, Attorneys, Stockbrokers, a Veterinarian or two, Doctors and Nurses, Cooks and Chefs, Seamstresses, and maybe a Tailor. I haven't met him yet but there is his shop, right over there.

Often the national media, be it a Newspaper or a TV Network reports on what goes on here. We think thats fine. It's good to know we get noticed.

One thing you'll find out right away is that there are conversations that spring up on almost every street corner and in every business about any number of subjects at all times of the day and night. Our residents LOVE to talk. Sometimes, the conversations are just between 3 or 4 people about something as silly as what shampoo to use on a cat. Other times, huge crowds will gather with dozens shouting their opinions. There can be two or three very loud, raucous conversations about the same subject going on at once. It can get rather lively. Usually when it gets to be really big, it draws several of the cops to circle around and stroll through the crowd, looking to stop anyone who might be ready to throw a punch. Once in a while there is a push or a shove and on occasion a punch is thrown. Rarely is the injury any more severe than a bloody nose or damaged pride. More often than not, when tempers flare, the antagonist or protagonist will just walk away. In the most severe cases the same participants of a conversation will call upon the residents of the town to participate in a jury. That jury will decide whether or not to break up the conversation completely and make everyone leave. They do, but sometimes it is just down the street a little where another conversation will start again. It is usually the case that the jury will take a specific participant out of the crowd entirely, and that person is not allowed to speak in that conversation any longer. It serves to keep things a little more civil, though the system has it's flaws. Often these conversations last for days and days. There's several big ones going on right now. You can tell the ones that get heated as they tend to drift up to the top of the street, near the Courthouse, while everyone is sweating and there are several cops in the crowd.

We have a small Police Force, maybe less than 100 Deputies, a Mayor, a Sheriff and a Marshall. The Deputies volunteer to be assigned to a specific street and they rotate out every few months so there are no career cops. They carry no guns but they have a weapon no other Police Force in the country has; the magical ability to make someone shut up! It seems to work pretty well. It is rumored that the Mayor, the Sheriff and the Marshall are the town fathers, but I think they just hung a phone on a post in the woods, stuck a flag in the ground, named the town and within days, this town started to grow, but that's just my opinion. I wasn't here then, but I passed through this area before it existed and it was just wilderness. The Mayor is a decent sort, very opinionated but firm in his convictions. The Sheriff writes an occasional column in the paper that is widely read and the Marshall...well....he stays out of sight. I think he sits in his study, playing with electrical devices all day, trying to create a time machine maybe. Who knows? Sometimes an outsider will come into town and start conversations or enter into them and cause nothing but trouble. Then, all of the sudden, he or she disappears. There is a special team charged with catching those trouble makers before they get a foothold in town. They seem to do a pretty good job. I know. I was on the team for a while. (Tip - Watch what you say)

Our history has had it's share of serious problems. Soon after the towns founding, hundreds and hundreds of people came rushing in to the area, trying to tell the Mayor that he had no business setting up a town here, that he was a maniac, that the water was poisoned (or that it WOULD be if he didn't leave) that the grass would die, that no one would come to live here, etc. As you look around, I think you can tell those predictions were all wrong.

Is it a perfect place to live? Surely not. But what place is perfect? We have clean air (we see to it) clean water (that too) good schools and good food. We have births and we miss those that pass away. New folks come to town all the time. Some stay for years, others leave soon after they arrive. Some, for some strange reason, insist on telling everyone they are leaving. This often gathers a crowd of either well-wishers or smart Alec's or both. I could never understand that, but there you go. But all in all, it is a wonderful place to live. Just walk down the street and listen in to the conversations. There is so much to learn and so many incredibly intelligent people that live here. I learn something just about every minute of every day!

Just remember, when you come across one of those large conversations that seems to have drawn a large crowd, try and listen in for a bit. You don't want to say the wrong thing and get the cops pissed at you. Trust me, I know. I was escorted almost to the edge of town at least once!

Well, I hope you enjoyed my 5 cent tour. I'm heading home. Have a good time and I'll see ya around!
Posted by A HERETIC I AM | Sat Jun 28, 2014, 05:22 PM (33 replies)

The term "Tax equivalent yield" (TEY) comes to mind. (Edited)

This is the idea that given a certain adjusted gross income, it specifies the difference between what is actually realized via interest paid on taxable bonds versus non-taxable bond interest, specifically municipals.

In other words, you realize the same amount of 'take home pay' so to speak on a 2.5% coupon tax free as you would on a taxable 3.5% (purely an example) bond.

Investopedia defines it thus;

For example, if a tax-free bond has a yield of 20% and the tax rate is 10%, a taxable bond would need a pretax yield of 22.2% (20% / 90%) in order to be considered an equivalent investment. Therefore, all bonds with the same risk but with a pretax yield of less than 22.2% should be considered inferior investments compared to the 20% municipal bond.

A lot of it will depend on your income from interest bearing investments.

Bloomberg.com posts bond yields daily, and though they don't break down to the 3rd or 4th decimal point on their public website (you need a subscription to get more detail), glancing occasionally at their bond page can give you an idea of what is happening;


Steve, you may be completely familiar with these securities, but for the sake of those not so familiar, I want to make a point or two.

It is important to bear in mind the difference between yield and the coupon rate of a bond.

Looking at the Bloomberg page I linked above, in the first section is listed US Treasuries. As of this writing, the 30 year had a coupon of 3.375%. That means that for every single $1000 par value bond you own you would receive $33.75 per year in interest payments, regardless of what you paid for it. Not that I have a million or anything, but I find it easier to think in those terms, so a million in face value of those would generate $33,750 per year.

The yield on that same bond is showing 3.46%. Why? Because those bonds were selling (quoted) at a discount to that $1000 par value. The "Price" column shows "98-11 1/2". That translates to ninety eight and eleven and a half thirty seconds percent of par. (!) 11 1/2 32's = 0.359375. 98 % of $1000 = $980 therefore those bonds would cost you $983.59 give or take a penny or two. Hold them for 30 years and the US Treasury will give you $1000 back. That difference of $16.41 per bond is only realized at the time the bonds are redeemed, but for the sake of the calculation of total income, that is considered income distributed annually, even though it technically isn't.


Now...that coupon rate - the $33.75 per year is TAXABLE interest, even though it is coming from the US Treasury. Scroll down that Bloomberg page and you'll see rates for Munis. They are showing the 30 Muni at a yield of 3.46%, exactly what the 30 Treas is. But why yield and not coupon also? Because they are using an average for all the AAA rated Muni paper out there. There are thousands of different 30 year Muni issues, so they have no choice but to give that average yield. There is only one 30 year Treas.


The easiest way to figure out the head and tail of all this is to use a TEY calculator. Google offered several, and here's one from Bankrate.com;
That tool is asking you to enter the tax free yield and will calculate the taxable rate needed for TEY

Sticking with the 30 year Muni, if I plug in those numbers, a 3.46% yield on a non-taxable bond would require a yield of 4.613 on a fully taxable. Going by what your advisor suggests, if you plug in 2.5% tax free you get 3.33%, so he is real close. As you can see, we aren't anywhere near a 4.6% yield on long Treasury bonds.

I should be clear here that your regular, run of the mill corporate bond would also generate taxable interest.

Now..here's another item or two.

1) There is ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT AT ALL to own Municipal bonds inside a tax-deferred account, be it an IRA, a Roth IRA, a 401(k) or a 403(b). Why? Because interest on bonds is paid regularly and you can't access the money in those accounts until retirement without penalty. This is why you just won't see a Municipal bond mutual fund offered in a 401(k) plan. It's pointless. Any advisor that tells you otherwise doesn't know what he is talking about.

2) Even though interest paid on Munis tends* to be tax free, you can still be subject to capital gains taxes on them. Why? Because it is possible to purchase them at a discount to par, just as with the Treasury I cited above, and it doesn't matter to the IRS where it comes from, if you have a capital gain, you have to pay taxes on it. If you buy a bond for $980 and sell it for more, you have realized a capital gain. If I won the lottery for instance, and I wanted to set up a large portfolio of Munis and never pay taxes again, I would have my bond buyer try as best he could to keep the purchase price at or near par. That way there is little or no capital gains when I either redeem or sell one of my bonds.

*Tends = Not all Municipal bonds pay tax-free interest. It depends on the state where you live and the type of bond. If you live in one of the 7 states with no state income tax, it doesn't matter, but if you live in all the rest, the only bonds that typically pay tax free interest are those issued in your home state. If you live in say...Michigan and own a California Muni, Michigan doesn't care and they want their cut of your income. (I noticed the OP is a FL resident, so this point is moot) So called "Private use" munis - things like bonds for a stadium or a commercial development are often not tax exempt because the end purpose is private use, even though the city or county may have initiated the bond offering.

This website has a pretty good tool for looking up bonds from various issuers, both corporate and municipal;

Just for giggles, open that link, high lite the "Corporate" radio button under "Advanced Search", don't fill anything else in and hit "Show Results". You'll get well over 1500 pages! If you aren't clear on how to read the results of a search, just let me know and I'll break it down for you.

I hope all of the above was of some help. If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask, and once again, I apologize for the delay in responding.

Edit here;

I want to be sure to emphasize that the comparison I have made between Munis and US Treasuries is not the only applicable one. The TEY calculator applies to basically any taxable vs. non-taxable bond comparison.
Posted by A HERETIC I AM | Sun May 11, 2014, 12:42 PM (1 replies)
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