Mad_Machine76
Mad_Machine76's JournalExactly
They were out of power at the time and couldn't necessarily have done anything to stop it and I think that, while many of them did believe that he still had some biological/chemical weapons left over, I don't know that, had they been in charge at the time, if they would've passed the IWR and/or advocated for invasion. Notice too that when Clinton was in office, he didn't launch an invasion of Iraq nor did he advocate it (endorsing regime change is not the same as sending in our own troops to make it happen). I highly doubt that President Al Gore would've ordered it either, even if 9/11 still happened as there were no logical connections between 9/11 and Iraq. Bush wanted to invade Iraq BEFORE 9/11 even happened. 9/11 gave him the pretext he needed to convince people that it was a necessary response. Maybe Democrats should've made a bigger fuss about the endeavor but few them were strong advocates for invasion. Many were supportive of measures against SH but more sanguine about the idea of invasion and were more or less dragged along like the rest of us.
Bush, Cheney and the rest of the (mis-)administration OWN full responsibility for the invasion/occupation and everything that happened as a result. Let us never forget that!
More importantly
why does the media keep going back to these clowns when they were WRONG on EVERYTHING and those of us opposed to the war were right? Why not some more interviews with people like President Obama, Michael Moore, Phil Donahue, Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, et. al who all opposed the war before, as they say, opposing the war was "cool"?
Prosecution of these guys (and gals) is obviously not on the table (at least not by anybody here), unfortunately, but the more they keep popping up and demonstrating their utter lack of accountability and remorse for their advocacy of invading/occupying Iraq, somebody- in the future- might be more tempted to go after them.
I had a notion that SH might have some old decrepit chemical weapons buried somewhere in the desert
but it wasn't enough for me to accept that he was such a threat to us and that invasion was the first and only recourse. I mean, shouldn't the fact that we bombed their suspected WMD facilities relentlessly during the 1990's (particularly in 1998) and that they were still under crippling economic sanctions and (mostly) covered by a no-fly zone since 1991 have clued anybody in to the lack of genuine threat from them? They didn't even kick out the UN inspectors this time. We did! Despite the fact that I didn't have Cheney intelligence, I could simply not accept the fear mongering that they were pushing. It's sad that far too many people, including several otherwise bright and intelligent lawmakers, got suckered into the whole endeavor.
Talking about invading Iraq
was a huge WTF moment for me. I held out some hope that Powell, if anybody, would talk his boss out of this madness/folly of invading Iraq but then he fell in line too and not only came out in favor of it but helped get it off the ground with his little "performance" at the UN. I didn't think it was a bad idea to work to get inspectors back in Iraq but, for all of the talk about standing up for UN resolutions that SH had violated, they were extremely rude and dismissive of the UN in general and treated the UN weapons inspectors like they were a bunch of bumbling and incompetent boobs whom couldn't find the WMDs that Bush, Cheney, et al insisted were there all the time (if they knew where they were, why didn't they share that intel with the inspectors and why did nobody call them on this?). Their decision to throw out the inspectors before they finished their work and refusal to go back to the UN and get a second resolution approving military action should have been a HUGE tip-off to everybody that they wanted to get their war on regardless of what was found/not found and that they had decided on launching the war no matter what. The only "silver lining" that came out of the whole mess is that we know longer have the money, resources, or will to get involved in a similar folly, at least not anytime in the near future. Had it been viewed as a "success" or at least not such a huge disaster, we'd almost certainly have gone right into bombing and possibly invading Iran next. I know that the usual suspects are still jonesing for it but very few people are and most people recognize that we don't have the resources to do anything about Iran, esp. since we are still in Afghanistan for at least the next year or so.
I'm not terribly worried
They can talk all they want and make it seem like they *care* but it will be harder than ever to paper over the fact that they, in all probabilities, will promote the exact same policies- In the states, they'll keep trying to rig the Electoral College in the states to make the Presidency more attainable (for them), implement new barriers to voting for college kids and minorities (anybody currently more likely to vote "D"
, keep pushing the transvaginal/fetal personhood bills to keep the womenfolk in line, keep LGBTs from having full equality, keep on busting unions and public employees, keep on pushing for the drug testing of the poor and unemployed, hunting down illegal immigrants, etc. At the federal level, they'll keep on obstructing President Obama's nominees for........everything and keep filibustering anything that might help the average person and, while I doubt that they will succeed in repealing Obamacare root and branch, they and their Republican brethren in the states will keep throwing roadblock after roadblock in front of its eventual full implementation. I mean, why spend all the time and efforts to come up with an (allegedly) superior replacement for Obamacare and/or get the public to support repealing Obamacare when you can just nullify it? Why work to get the public on your side to repeal/change Dodd-Frank when it's easier to nullify it by refusing to allow President Obama to choose an eminently qualified and unobjectionable person to head the agency that oversees consumer financial protection, which, apparently, they have some huge problem with- their desire to reach middle class voters notwithstanding? 
I know, I know
it's just horribly depressing. It's not that I expect the media to fawn over President Obama (or any President for that matter) but it just bugs the hell out of me how they hound and hamstring Democratic Presidents and always beat them over the head the instant their popularity starts to decline but give Republican Presidents a wide berth to do what they want to do and prop them up almost no matter what. The Bush "tingle" didn't fade until at least 2005-2006 and that was pretty much because his (mis-)administration's overreach and gross incompetence was waaaaay beyond what they were capable of spinning and/or cover-up (had we known some of the stories they were deliberately sitting on in 2004, Kerry might well have been sitting in the WH). They didn't hound George W. Bush about being "bipartisan" with the Democrats during the six years that Republicans controlled the WH, Senate, and House. Of the last two Democratic Presidents in modern history, both of them have had Democratic control of WH, Senate, and House for 4 years at two separate points, 2 each to get things done only to suffer a midterm backlash that has them having to deal with the Republicans in at least part of Congress (Clinton had to deal with an entirely Republican Congress for the remaining 6 years of his Presidency). It just.......makes me sick.
"Mainstream" (corporate) Media on a new tear against President Obama (declining poll numbers)
and back to shilling for the Republicans: http://thehill.com/homenews/house/288905-house-gop-rebounds-after-disastrous-start
Is anybody seeing any real-life *momentum* back towards the Republicans? It kills me whenever I start hearing stories about bad poll numbers for President Obama yet nobody ever seems to bring up the fact that he and the Democratic Party are light-years more popular than Republicans are at any given moment not to mention the fact that the Republicans are still in disarray with no evidence that things are noticeably improving for them. Why can't there be more of a focus on the party that has its stuff together and is trying to do stuff instead of endlessly handwringing over "what Republicans need to do to win more votes and stay relevant"?
Yeah
Seriously????? He seriously believes that a Republican Congress and President would've approved civil unions at the Federal level? Really? WTF is this guy smoking? I want me some...............
What does Fox News "report" on other than RNC-approved memes?
I don't watch tons of MSNBC so maybe I'm not qualified to say anything but MSNBC has NEVER struck me as a "left/progressive" version of Fox News. To be a "left/progressive" version of Fox News, I would need to see wall-to-wall interviews with left-wing and progressive activists and Democratic politicians, as well as hosts reporting only news favorable to President Obama and promoting only DNC-approved memes. It is about the only network anymore to find left-leaning pundits like Rachel Maddow and, formerly, Keith Olbermann, Ed Schultz, et. al but there is seriously no way that anybody can look at Fox News and say that MSNBC (or any other cable news station out there) that is exactly the same ball of wax- but from the left.
I would LOVE it to have a good, solid Democratic/progressive leaning news network that reported the truth and facts but it has just not happened but MSNBC isn't now anything like that.......
Sounds like she has somehow gotten sucked into Fox News' alternate reality
Hope she is able to unplug herself and come back to the real world or, barring that, at least keep politics from interfering THAT MUCH with family relationships. I wouldn't say that there is a lot of arguing over politics in my family but my mother is a Republican and still votes Republican every election. The weird thing is that she doesn't seem that devoted to the Republican Party and, at least on some level, she seems to get that she's being screwed over by Republican policies and that Democratic policies are probably better for her than Republican ones but she just can't seem to stop voting for the Republican candidate. It's pathological.
Profile Information
Name: Mara Alis ButlerGender: Female
Hometown: Indianapolis, Indiana
Home country: USA
Current location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member since: Sat Feb 28, 2004, 01:13 AM
Number of posts: 24,402
