the worse it will look for Trump/GOP in the end. I mean, it already seems like most Republicans have made up their minds and/or plan to basically ignore any evidence presented of Trump's guilt, but if they're going to try to ram through their rules on a partisan basis and shut out the Democrats, it's going to make things look like even more of a sham than they already are- and make their cries of process unfairness sound even more hollow. Can I just say how much I hate the current timeline? Ousting McConnell next year has to be considered a secondary priority just under getting rid of Trump IMHO.

Joe Manchin

Whether it's him being from West Virginia, where there is generally strong support for Trump (although I don't know why) or whether he sort of genuinely supports Trump and wants to work with him for some reason, he has been pretty wobbly when it comes to major votes against Trump and/or his nominees. I could very well see him possibly casting a vote acquitting Trump in the Senate. I don't think that there will be any others in the Senate but him, but Trump would definitely welcome his vote of support and be sure to mention it a thousand times a day to attack the Impeachment/Removal effort *if* and when he is acquitted.

but *what* exactly is our "messaging problem"? We deal with facts and substance and literal real-world evidence. I get that that might not be "fun" or "sexy" or anywhere near as "entertaining" as one of Trump's tantrums or Rudy's antics or Doug Collins ranting like an auctioneer in committee, but at least we deal with reality and real-world facts and not delusions and theatrics. While there are certainly instances where we maybe need to communicate better, reality appears to be an incredibly difficult thing for a lot of people to understand/grasp, esp. when they are constantly bombarded by Trump, Fox News, and a succession of AM Radio Hosts whom eschew all nuance and parrot simple and easy, black-or-white views of the world and entertaining conspiracy theories about the "Deep State" that may sound riveting to people in their mundane lives but bears no resemblance to reality. The problem is that that sort of thing is what is being marketed to people and that's what sells. Not reality. Not facts. Not Democratic "messaging".

Since it seems pretty well wrapped up that Trump tried to interfere with and cheat in the 2020 Elections by trying to get Ukraine to create the appearance of a scandal with Joe Biden, how do we know that he won't try to do something else with Biden and/or another potential Democratic rival in order to win in 2020? Yes, the House will likely impeach him and there will be a trial in the Senate, which ultimately "acquits" him, but what will our guarantee be that Election 2020 is fair? Republicans have consistently demonstrated that they will NOT hold Trump accountable for ANYTHING and will, in fact, lie, smear, and cover for him and there is no reason to believe that Trump will be chastened by belonging to a small club of Presidents in our nation's history whom have been impeached for misconduct while in office, so what's going to stop him from trying his hand at a similar Ukraine-style gambit again?

He is *already* engaged in massive obstructionism in this Impeachment Inquiry, which suggests that even MORE skullduggery is awaiting discovery. Who knows if that includes more efforts to (literally) rig Election 2020? Who knows if he is STILL even colluding with Russia, since that investigation got largely shortchanged and then unceremoniously shut down once Barr was installed at DOJ?

If I am thankful for anything this year, it's that, thanks to some brave public servants, we're not finding all of this out AFTER Trump's second inauguration and that the plot was discovered BEFORE the next Election, but if Republicans aren't going to allow Trump to be removed from office and disqualified from holding office again, I worry about the fairness of Election 2020. It is true that we could have a great election and it works out in our favor, but there is always going to be that nagging fear at the back of our heads that Trump may try again to rig the 2020 Election in his favor, somehow.

Pretty rich IMHO going after Democrats for this when they spent literally every day going after Bill Clinton even though he was a competent President, and he cooperated with their investigations and they were left pretty much empty-handed every time, at least until they found THE ONE THING they could *reasonably* impeach him over, which they pursued with all of the gusto they could muster, brushing aside any talk of censure or anything else and not worrying a microsecond over the "trauma" of an Impeachment.

They spent just about as much time and energy going after Obama but as much as they probably wanted to, they couldn't find ANYTHING to impeach him over.

So, when they complain about Democrats having some kind of extraordinary vendetta against Trump, please *kindly* redirect their attention to the 16 years they spent (wasted) going after Democratic Presidents whom didn't have anywhere the gross incompetence and corruption and malfeasance as Trump does. Also, be sure to point how uncooperative and obstructionist Trump has been towards investigations and how hostile Trump has been towards.....well.....everybody in this country compared to the previous two Democratic Presidents.

Republicans weren't quite as concerned about the "trauma" of an impeachment trial in the Senate for Clinton and him lying about a consensual affair.

What he really means IMHO is that he's scared shirtless that *something* is going to come out the hearings in the House or trial in the Senate about him or other GOPers, so they want to start talking about ways to end this altogether- before anything horrifically damaging comes out on anybody.

The thing is that I don't think that Republicans don't believe there is a problem. It's just that they know that actually DOING SOMETHING about the problem will cause them to lose votes, corporate donations, etc., so they tend to skirt around the issue, put the focus on all of the supposed "economic harm" Democratic proposals to address the problem may cause, fudge with numbers, basically try to create uncertainty where there really is none- not too unlike what they are trying to do with Trump/Russia/Ukraine. Anything at all to avoid seriously addressing the problem.

This seems like it has become almost a running joke with the NYT

Why are Trump voters so damned important? Why isn't anybody paying attention to Hillary voters from 2016 or would-be Democratic voters in 2020? Or perhaps some of those Republican voters whom might vote Democratic in 2020?

I swear that they are working hard to dampen our enthusiasm in 2020.

Unfortunately, the media just wants to make everything look bad- for Democrats- because there apparently isn't any money in making things look worse for Republicans because it will just get them accused of having a *gasp* "liberal bias" or of somehow being "in the tank" for Democrats.

When a Republican is President, the media covers mainly Republicans because that's who's usually making all of the news and commanding all of the attention.

When a Democrat is President, however, the media covers mainly Republicans because they act like sore losers and a**holes and their antics to try to tear down the Democratic President is usually making all of the news and commanding of their attention. Plus, again, they don't want to be accused of having a "liberal bias" or of somehow being "in the tank" for Democrats.

When it comes to the media, it's pretty much always a lose/lose for Democrats and and a win/win for Republicans because even when the Republicans are down, the media minimizes it or spins it in a different direction and when the Democrats are down, the media maximizes it.

The media is something that Democrats can't currently win at, so we have to win IN SPITE OF.

committing illegal acts! *ugh*

Especially when the reason an Impeachment Inquiry even exists is because of Trump's attempts to gain an advantage on the 2020 Presidential Election!!!!