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NYC Liberal

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Gender: Male
Hometown: New York
Home country: United States
Member since: Sun Aug 1, 2004, 01:28 PM
Number of posts: 19,783

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Anti-gay moral crusader gets SHUT DOWN

From the comments section on this article. Probably one of the best responses I've seen to the "government has to indulge my bigotry because RELIGION!" nonsense.

Anthony McLin Emilianne Hackett 2 hours ago
As a Catholic, the intolerance portrayed in this video is embarrassing and is exactly why we are deservedly called names and mocked. Even if you consider someone else's lifestyle to be sinful, it is *absolutely not* your right or moral responsibility to denigrate them or judge their life. Their fight for recognition does not come at the expense of your morals, and their successes at getting recognition is not oppression of your views. This is not a zero-sum game and that takes some very twisted logic to defend. Acknowledging and taking some responsibility for the current state of things is not oppression against your moral values. Pretending at victimhood just negates any of the good work done towards setting moral examples.

Joe P Anthony McLin 2 hours ago
As a Catholic, you're called to use your conscience, which includes making judgments about the morality of actions people are taking. This is not only a suggestion for Catholics - but a requirement. You are right that this is all about recognition for them - recognition for their sinful actions as being not sinful. As a Catholic, you should refuse to recognize them as such. It is oppression of my views, because the government that governs over me now supports non-reality, which will always have bad consequences for those who are still holding onto reality.

Anthony McLin Joe P an hour ago
No, as a Catholic you're called to use your conscience, which includes making judgments about the morality OF YOUR OWN ACTIONS. We have absolutely no basis to make judgements on others (pretty sure there's a some very clear verses on that, something about a log and a splinter in your eye, or judge not lest ye be judged, or casting stones...). We are called to self-evaluate and to set an example by our actions.

The government does not define sin. The government defines what is and isn't legal under the areas where the government operates. The government is not forcing you to recognize sin as non-sin. Just because something is legal does not suddenly make it not a sin, and that's OK. Sin is explicitly the things not permitted by your religion. As a Catholic you hold yourself to a narrower set of moral guidelines than the wider array of things that are considered legal. That does not give you the right to impose your morals or restrict legality to match your narrow set of permissible behaviors.

Eating meat on a Friday during Lent is a sin. The government doesn't care what you eat on Friday. What possible logic explains that the government should prohibit the consumption of meat on Fridays. It is a sin for a Jew to work on the Sabbath. Should the government shut down all businesses on Saturday? Because that's the same logic. Just because I equate some action as a sin, does not give me the right (religiously as a Catholic nor politically as an American) to restrict others from that action.

Gambling is a sin, drinking to excess is a sin (some believe any alcohol is a sin), taking drugs is a sin, etc. Even within Catholicism it is the individual's decision to sin out of free will. You do not have the mandate to prevent them from ever being able to make that choice for themselves.

You do not live a country governed by Catholic law, just like we're glad that this country is not governed by Sharia law. Instead we live in a country where people of all religions, races, and genders are equal in the eyes of the law. This means that the country's laws must be *more* open and encompassing than any particular group's internal moral guidelines.

Lashing out and denigrating others because they are sinners and their communal values do not reflect your own is exactly opposite to the teachings of Christ and the Church. Yes, you should stand up. Yes, you should speak your faith. But *how* you do that is more important than the act itself. Reaching out to someone and having an adult discussion where you respect the other person for their humanity will go much farther than condemning them as a sinner ever will. Starting from a position of self-righteousness will never make for successful dialogue.

Next time you're in a soup kitchen, ask yourself this: "Will I help them more by serving food, or by telling at them that they are sinners?" Because that's exactly the same thing you are doing when you fight to impose your moral views in law.

As a Catholic I recognize that not everyone shares my morals. Not everyone adheres to the same religious principles as I. My morals are not synonymous with societies. That may be hard for me when things differ, but that's part of my cross to bear, not society's. Externalizing it and blaming society is a cop-out and an avoidance to make the difficult changes necessary in your own life.

If you feel indignant because of the action of others, then what does that say about your faith in yourself?

Take corrective action in *yourself* and set an example by your own life and actions. Stop worrying about whether others might be sinning or not.
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