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Gender: Male
Hometown: Eastern North Carolina
Home country: United States
Current location: Eastern NC
Member since: Wed Dec 1, 2004, 03:09 PM
Number of posts: 12,148

Journal Archives

Are you seriously proposing to ban BB guns, or is that a rhetorical question?

The NRA, the ACLU, and the state Democratic Party had better stand in the way of counterproductive nonsense like a BB gun ban, IMO.

That's pretty much what Carrie Nation said to people who liked to have wine with dinner.

I'm sure she felt as justified in forcing her beliefs on others at gunpoint as you do, since alcohol kills, oh, 200 times as many people annually as rifles do.

But the funny thing is, we can still buy alcohol, can't we? The zealots pushed for a ban, responsible drinkers didn't comply and pushed back, and the party that pushed the ban collapsed into the dustbin of history.

FWIW, I think it's a bit ironic that you have an AR-15 owner and avid target shooter as your avatar.

You'd be happier if rifles with straight stocks had been used instead? Or handguns?

The 2011 mass shooting at Ut°ya, Norway, is the worst on record (77 total killed, of whom 69 were shot); the shooter used a Ruger Mini-14, another small-caliber non-automatic that wouldn't be affected by any ban on rifles with protruding handgrips, aka "assault weapons".


The fact is, rifle stock shape is absolutely irrelevant to lethality, a fact that seems to escape those who are obsessed with outlawing the least misused guns if the stock is too modern-looking.

And no, we'll keep them, thanks. You'd have an easier time outlawing hunting, since considerably fewer voters hunt than own "assault weapons".

A mass murder by a state-licensed security guard authorized to carry contractor-owned weapons

is a tough nut to crack. But requiring him to use a Ruger Mini-14 (or a Glock, for that matter) instead of a Sig Sauer would have changed absolutely nothing in that particular case. The rifle the murderer used fires no faster than any other civilian autoloader, and is on the low end of the lethality spectrum.

I'll also point out that France has had more mass-shooting deaths since 2008 than we have, all with illegally possessed weapons; France allows AR-15 ownership, but the terrorists didn't bother with civilian non-automatics and used smuggled-in military automatic weapons (and grenades) instead, which could be done here just as easily.

There are some things that could be done around the edges, mostly aimed at identifying radicalized individuals before they strike, discouraging radicalization, etc., though I oppose police-state measures like warrantless surveillance and secret blacklists. There may be some attainable common ground on background checks, too, though I think the gun control lobby has thoroughly burned those bridges now. But legislating handgrip shape, receiver/stock aesthetics, or magazine length accomplishes precisely nothing except to harass the lawful and nonviolent, diverts police resources away from more productive ends, and further deepens the police/community divide, IMO.

The military doesn't use civilian non-automatics like those, except in very specialized roles.

Those aren't automatic weapons in those pics, they are non-automatic civilian guns.

I'll also point out that rifles are the least misused of all weapons in the United States. Only 3% of all murders involve any kind of rifle whatsoever; 97% of murders are carried out with handguns, knives, clubs/hammers/bricks, fists/boots, or shotguns, in that order. Rifles rank last, behind all of those.

Most AR-15's are .22's, hence are underpowered for hunting anything but small game.

AR-10's are good hunting rifles (.308 Winchester, .243 Winchester, 7mm-08, etc.) but are pricey compared to a bolt-action. AR-15's are chambered for low-powered rounds based on the .223 Remington case length, and typically deliver only ~2 kJ or so of energy compared to ~4 kJ for a deer rifle. An AR-15 can kill a deer with careful bullet choice and very careful shot placement, but there isn't as much margin for error, so they are more often used for hunting prairie dogs and other smallish animals, up to coyote-sized.

The vast majority of gun owners are nonhunters, though, and AR-15's absolutely dominate centerfire target shooting in the United States, both competitive and recreational, and are the most popular rifles in U.S. homes. Gun ownership is mostly not about hunting.

And some people wonder why Dem and indie gun owners feel alienated from the party?

I have a B.A. and some graduate work in English and literary criticism (had to drop out of grad school when my son was born with 22q11.2 deletion syndrome), and I work as a technical writer in the aviation industry. I am also a casual competitive shooter (USPSA pistol and carbine), e.g. one of the uneducated morons you decry. My sister is an engineer and has a carry license, though she doesn't shoot competitively. Believe what you want, but it takes income to be a gun enthusiast, and a disproportionate number of us work in STEM fields.

I'd be interested in what data you think supports your generalization. Most polls don't show much difference between postgrads and "some college", and both groups are more likely to own guns than people who only have high school diplomas.

Sheer ignorance, or intentional deception. AR-15-type rifles weren't banned 1994-2004.

After the expiration of the non-ban, rifle crime homicide continued its long decrease, eventually reaching its lowest point in many decades a couple years ago. Rifles are consistently the least misused of all weapons in the United States.

This shows Everytown/Bloomberg's true colors, though. For a couple of years, they've been pretending they don't really want to ban popular guns, just make sure bad people are screened before purchase, etc. Now the mask comes back off.

Actually, hollowpoints are legal in NJ. THe rest of your post stands, though.

NJ certainly has a penchant for letting moralistic busybodies run other people's lives for them.

That isn't limited to NJ; when I was in Boston years ago for my son's second and third heart surgeries, I was shocked to find out that by law, most stores were required to close on Sunday.

Hollowpoints aren't banned in NJ (or to my knowledge, anywhere else).

NJ bans many of the most popular civilian guns in the nation and largely restricts carry licenses to the rich and politically connected or their staff, but even NJ doesn't ban hollowpoint or softpoint ammunition. Some jurisdictions may give you extra hassle if you stop for lunch or to go to the bathroom on the way to/from a shooting range if you have hollowpoint ammunition in the trunk of your car, and accidentally leaving some in the trunk after your trip could land you in prison, but it's completely legal to purchase, shoot at a range, hunt with, or load your home-defense gun with.

NJ law is fixated on the term "sportsmen" like it's 1950, but if you can get past that, here's the law:


Provided certain conditions are met, a sportsman may transport and use hollow point ammunition. There are no restrictions preventing a sportsman from keeping such ammunition at his home.

N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

(2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].

Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ."
N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).

Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:

A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
1. A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
2. A person going directly to a target range, and;
3. A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

As with other ammunition and firearms, a sportsman would have to comply with the provisions of N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f and g when transporting hollow nose ammunition to a target range. The ammunition should be stored in a closed and fastened container or locked in the trunk of the motor vehicle in which it is being transported. The course of travel should be as direct as possible when going to and leaving from the target range with "only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances." N.J.S.A 2C:39-6g.

If the sportsman's club member plans to hunt with a rifle and use hollow nose ammunition in a state where this is permitted, he must comply with the provisions of U.S.C.A. 926A and N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(f) and (6)(g), which is consistent with the federal law, in transporting the firearm and ammunition. The firearm should be unloaded and neither the firearm nor the ammunition should be readily accessible from the passenger compartment. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the firearm and the ammunition should be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or the console. 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.

In addition, the sportsman should have a valid hunting license in his possession from the state in which he plans to hunt and should be familiar with that state's gun laws. N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(f)(2) requires a person hunting in this State to have a valid hunting license in his possession while traveling to or from the hunting area. Hunting with hollow nose ammunition is permitted in New Jersey. In the case of a New Jersey resident traveling to another state to hunt, it logically would follow that the hunting license would be from the state where the hunter is going. Although the federal statute does not require possession of a hunting license, it does require that the person transporting the firearm be going to a state where possession of that object is lawful. A valid hunting license from that state effectively supplies the proof.

These conditions for use and transport of hollow nose ammunition are consistent with the legislative intent to restrict the use of such ammunition to a limited number of people. It is well established that in construing a statute exceptions are to be "strictly but reasonably construed, consistent with the manifest reason and purpose of the law." Service Armament Co. v. Hyland, 70 N.J. 550, 558-559 (1976). The State Supreme Court has "characterized the Gun Control Law as 'highly purposed and conscientiously designed toward preventing criminal and other unfit elements from acquiring firearms while enabling the fit elements of society to obtain them with minimal burdens.'" Id. at 559.

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