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Gender: Male
Hometown: Eastern North Carolina
Home country: United States
Current location: Eastern NC
Member since: Wed Dec 1, 2004, 03:09 PM
Number of posts: 12,148

Journal Archives

Then don't own any.

But mentally competent adults with clean records have the right to choose for themselves, not only here in the USA, but also in Canada, Europe, and even the UK.

Repeating firearms have been mainstream since the 1830s for handguns and 1860s for rifles. There are about a third of a billion of them in U.S. homes, and we'll keep them, thanks.

It's definitely a good sport for a 15yo (I started shooting younger than that)

but as to defending herself, she doesn't have access to the gun safe (and can't, legally). It's about building life skills and confidence so that if someday she chooses to own guns herself, whether for sport or for defensive purposes, she is competent to do so. It will be her choice, but if she chooses not to, it won't be for reasons of ignorance and incompetence.

And if she chooses never to go on to shoot a full-power rifle or pistol and just sticks with the smallbores, that's fine. I took her this weekend because she wanted to go.

Of course market saturation applies.

"The concept of market saturation does not appear to apply to weapons sales regardless of caliber, rate of fire, barrel length, portability, concealment factor, or prominence"

Of course market saturation applies. But you are looking at the wrong criteria. And long guns already have greater market saturation than handguns; the difference in misuse boils down to the fact that you can't stick a 26"+ rifle in your waistband under a T-shirt. Long-gun misuse has actually declined considerably today compared to the 1970s.

It's not mass murders that drive rifle sales, though. It's the fact that every time there is a mass murder, journalists and prohibitionists demand that future rifle sales to the lawful and nonviolent be constrained. So if you have just come of age to own guns or have just never gotten around to buying that rifle you wanted, the politicians/media push people to hedge against the possibility of bans. Josh Sugarmann and Michael Bloomberg have together sold more rifles than any other two people in U.S. history, IMO.

As to the criteria you list, caliber is already constrained by law and practicality; anything .51 caliber or higher is banned unless exempted for "sporting purposes" (that's how .729-caliber 12-gauge shotguns are legal), and anything less than about .20 caliber is small to be practical under Federal rifling rules, so civilian caliber has been stuck between .22 and .50 for a century and will probably stay there.

Civilian rate of fire has been limited to one shot per trigger pull for nearly a century and will likely stay there.

Civilian barrel length for rifles is 16"-24", constrained on the low end by Federal law and on the high end by practicality.

Portability/concealment are inherent to the type of weapon, not to technology. Most handguns are concealable; rifles are not. Rifles and shotguns are still required to be at least 26" long with 16" barrels minimum; you might be able to make a rifle lighter with future materials, but you can't make a rifle disappear into a waistband or pocket.

I'm not sure what you mean by "prominence". The AR platform is the most common civilian rifle in U.S. homes, but does that make it "prominent"? If so, does that mean it should be banned, or that it should become the national standard? Not following you here.

My 15yo daughter shot a gun for the first time yesterday

at our local shooting range; she has prior experience with bows and airguns, but no firearms. I had her double up with good earplugs plus earmuffs, and started her on a .22LR revolver shooting CCI Quiets, then moved up to full power .22LR, then my .223 Rock River AR with a 2-6x scope. She had a good time and shot well, as did her friend and friend's mom who came along. The CCI Quiets wouldn't even knock down the steel plates on the rimfire range, so she switched to the regular .22LR after only a couple cylinders of the Quiet. Rifle targets were paper at 50 yards.

I am saving full-power rifles for later. She really likes the antique Mosin-Nagant in the safe (Finn M39), but that one is rather intimidating for a beginning shooter I think, so we're sticking with .22's only for now.

All civilian repeating firearms have the ability to kill a lot of people if misused.

Almost none of them actually are so used. Most gun deaths are single-shot incidents, and most gun homicides involve small, concealable, lowish-capacity handguns, almost always illegally possessed at the time of use.

In the state of Massachusetts (subject of the OP), there were over 1300 murders 2007-2014; all rifles combined accounted for only 7 of them, per the FBI Uniform Crime Reports.

Weight is a big issue now, but that was less of an criterion before body armor was general-issue.

The main reason the 5.56mm M16 displaced the 7.62x51mm M14 back in the day was the M14's inability to fire effectively in full auto; the M14 could do impressive full-auto mag dumps, but for practical purposes was semiauto-only.

In that particular venue, the Orlando shooter could have shot 103 people with a full-sized pistol,

a multitude of CA- and NY-legal non-"assault-weapon" carbines like the Mini-14, or a comp'd semiauto shotgun and speedloaders (UK legal, BTW), or a pump-action rifle like the Remington 7615. If all the above were banned, he could have used a detachable-magazine lever-action. And as a state-licensed armed security guard, he could have gotten a gun even if guns for "civilians" were completely banned and magically confiscated.

Banning modern-looking rifles does not, in any way, address mass murder. You are talking about outlawing guns in the USA that are considered suitable for civilian use in Canada and most of Europe, for pete's sake. It is about sticking it to people you despise, not saving lives.

I'll reiterate: 1300+ murders in Massachusetts in 8 years, and all rifles put together (including AR-15's) accounted for exactly seven of those. That is fewer than one murder year in the entire state, on average. Nationwide, rifles are involved in less than 300 murders annually out of 12,000+. Bans on civilian rifles are about sticking it to people you despise, not saving lives.

Because they were spec'ing it for use in automatic weapons.

They traded off per-round lethality to get usable select-fire capability, which was and is considered vital in CQB by the military; 3-round burst on the M4 is now acknowledged as a Fulda-Gap aberration that is now being rectified (the M4A1 is back to full auto, based on experience in Iraq and Afghanistan).

To my knowledge, the U.S. military, and all other militaries on this planet, have not procured a single .223/5.56mm semiauto for general issue, ever; all military semiautos ever issued were at least 7mm that I'm aware of (the Garand was originally prototyped as a 7x51mm). I believe some private security contractors have occasionally used a few 5.56mm DMR's as gap-filler precision rifles, and it's possible some of those have occasionally seen use with SOCOM for weight reasons as well, but nothing for general issue and especially CQB.

Would you prefer that all our rifles were rechambered in 6.8mm SPC, which was developed by/for SOCOM to offset the .223's lack of power? Or perhaps that we all switched to AR-10's in .243 Winchester? A 58gr varmint bullet at 3,925 ft/sec would be a pretty effective defensive round, would it not?

No, the MA AG didn't touch function at all.

"The AG in MA has foregone all the minutia about appearance and boiled it down to function. If it acts like an assault weapon it IS an assault weapon."

No, the MA AG didn't touch function at all. A Ruger Mini-14 functions just like an AR-15, but isn't banned.

What she did was redefine the phrase "copy or duplicate" to mean "somewhat similar to" or "sharing a couple of parts with", contrary to 18 years of legal precedent. It had nothing to do with function, and everything to do with stretching the original list of guns that were banned for their looks.

It also didn't have anything to do with misuse. Out of 1,301 murders in Massachusetts 2007-2014, all rifles combined accounted for 7 (yes, seven). This move was about sticking it to Massachusetts residents she---and you---hold in contempt, not about violence reduction.

"An assault weapon is a semi auto or burst fire weapon with a high cyclic rate of fire and removable magazine."

Pray tell, what is the "cyclic rate of fire" of a non-automatic Title I civilian AR-15, and how does it differ from the "cyclic rate of fire" of a Glock 17 or a Beretta 92 or a Ruger Mini-14 or a 10/22?

And nowhere, to my knowledge, has any legal definition of "assault weapon" ever encompassed Title II automatic weapons, just Title I civilian non-automatics. "Assault rifle," on the other hand, referred strictly to Title II select-fire rifles of intermediate caliber.

For short range, how about a Garand scaled down for a less powerful cartridge.

Not an "assault weapon", either, not even in Massachusetts or California.

"All the rest is rabid defense of a piece of equipment that is designed to kill as quickly and efficiently as possible and has very little other function than satisfying a sub primal urge to dominate."

This is exactly how gun control activists shot themselves in the foot in the 1990s. The fact that the guns you're talking about are both the most popular rifles in U.S. homes, and simultaneously among the least misused of *all* weapons (even less than shotguns), belies that argument. You're making lurid statements about guns that are considered suitable for civilian use in Canada and most of Europe.

Some actual numbers, that might mean something if the cognitive dissonance weren't so strong:

Yes, out of 1300 murders, all rifles put together accounted for only seven of them.
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