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Member since: Mon Oct 2, 2006, 10:23 PM
Number of posts: 4,504

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How does the "Stand your Ground" law handle this:

1. Guy goes to local park with daughter to check out a small "Occupy" event. Guy as usual is packing as he has his cc permit. They are standing on the sidewalk watching the peaceful protestors do their thing. Cops show up and start taking down the tents and telling everyone to go home. Officer in white shirt heads over towards guy's daughter and her friend and pulls out some pepper spray and let's her have it right in the face. Guy, afraid for her life, knowing that what the cop was doing was not authorized, pulls his gun and shoots the officer.

2. Same story only this time it's with his son who wants to get involved by videoing the event. This time the cop rips the camera from the kid, grabs him and throws him to the ground and pounds on him like you've seen in the various tapes of the Occupy events last fall. Guy, afraid for his son's life, pulls his gun and shoots the officer.

3. Same story only the guy is there by himself. Guy is watching things, is on the sidewalk, not really participating when suddenly a cop comes at him with his club yelling at the guy to get out of there. Guy, afraid that he about to get hit, pulls his gun and shoots the officer.

4. Same story only the guy is standing with a flag, not bothering anyone. Cops start throwing grenades, guy watches friend get hit and afraid for his life, pulls his gun and starts shooting the cops.

Just wondering.

Here's a nice bedtime story.



Sick Americans put in a bad position. An evening in Afghanistan with the US Army.

Hard number to find.

So with all the talk about how we need to reject Obamacare along with the Heritage Foundation that dragged it in, I decided to try and find out just how much a guy like me would have to pay to get Single Payer health insurance. Truth is, I’m an old boomer (about to be able to start in with Medicare, assuming Paul Ryan doesn’t end it) and not the best googler but I was only able to find a wide range of numbers and most were from the Hilary health care fights of the 1990s.

I’m starting this thread with the hope that people will find some meaningful links that will give the average guy like me something to figure on.

Obamacare expects a hard working guy like me to pay about 8.5% (at the most) of my income on Health insurance. Alternatively, I could opt for the “Penalty” which would run me 2.5% but gets me no insurance. The sites I did find show a range of 7% to 9% payroll tax on top of the medicare tax for single payer. That seems like a deal, especially if there are no co-pays, deductibles or bull shit. But is this 7-9% dependent on everyone paying that much? What about those earning less than the 133% of poverty level that will get Obamacare for free (Medicaid)? I totally support single payer and look forward to Medicare but I’m wondering about the numbers.

The 7-9% numbers are nothing to hang a hat on much less suggest to my Republican friends at the water cooler. (Truth is I have no Republican friends, just a tea party sister). So I’m hoping the DU gurus will help me out. Seriously, if the SCOTUS is about to throw Obamacare out because of the “Mandate” and DU is going to shift its support to Single Payer, having good numbers is essential. I thought this was all settled and really sort of forgot about worrying about healthcare, but listening to Scalia, Roberts and Alito has got me going. Please keep the ranting and insults to a minimum and just put up some numbers with a link.

Thanks for your help.

It time to put an end to the GOP talking point repeated here on DU again and again.

Obamacare does not require you to buy health insurance. No one is now or will be required to write a check to Blue Cross or any other insurance company. Nor will you be required to give anybody any money to have them buy insurance for you. You do and will have total freedom to not buy insurance from anyone. The tea party GOP and even some on the Supreme Court would have you believe otherwise because it advances their cause of total repression of the middle class and poor of America.

Obamacare DOES allow the IRS to collect a tax penalty from anyone who can afford insurance but who does not get that coverage and from those who could sign up for free or subsidized insurance but does not do so. The IRS has no way, method or plan to get you insurance if you don’t want it. They are totally powerless to do anything to get any insurance company to insure you unless you buy the insurance as your choice. You are the only one who can make sure you have insurance and you have total freedom to not get health insurance. The tax penalty is 2.5% of your taxable income at the most. The IRS will not and cannot use that money to buy from a private insurance company insurance for you or anyone else. Not only are you not required to send a check to any insurance company, the IRS is not required or even allowed to send a check to an insurance company. There is no commerce being created, mandated, required or otherwise commanded. Yes, Obamacare encourages, stimulates, even provides an incentive for people to get insured but that has nothing to do with your freedom to not buy insurance. You will have total freedom to not participate in the commerce of health insurance. (Incidentally your employer, as now, may have the power to require you to buy insurance if you choose to work for him. But that’s subjecting yourself to the capitalist, not the government. The GOP loves that!)

That the Tea Party has convinced anyone here on DU otherwise shows the power they have to control the dialog. Please correct any comments you hear and remind them that no where in the Affordable Healthcare Act does the government have the power to make you as an individual buy insurance from anyone, any company, public or private.

Note: I would prefer a Single Payer Healthcare system like Medicare for everyone but right now, Obamacare is all we have to defend. Your kids will be grown and out of the house before we see any healthcare reform if Obamacare is thrown out by this Supreme Court. Complain about it all you want, but stop repeating GOP talking points and explain to me where in the act it says to write out a check to anybody for health insurance. If it does, tell me which company, I have my check book ready and I need the coverage.

Very disturbing - Trouble posting a comment on Yahoo!

I just had a very disturbing experience on the internet. I read a short, 2 paragraph story on the Yahoo.com web site about a CBS poll that was headlined “Poll: One in Four Americans Want Supreme Court to Uphold Health Care Law – Report’ National Journal.” I read the poll on the CBS site and decided to comment on the Yahoo site, drawing attention to the fact that actually the Headline was misleading. My comment was as follows:

“ Read the Poll. This is another case of bias in the headline. Actually only 38% want to overturn the law. But of the 47% who disapprove of the law, 76% want to require insurance companies to cover those with pre-existing conditions, 65% want to reduce the “Donut Hole” for prescription drugs and 56% want to allow children under 26 to stay on parents plan. But all of this is mostly nonsense as 48% say they don’t understand how the health care law will affect their family, answering; “No, it’s confusing.”
Meanwhile, if you scroll down you’ll learn that 69% think the US should not be involved in Afghanistan and only 23% think we should.
The supreme court should be ruling on whether we should be required to pay for a war the majority doesn’t want. “

It appeared that the comment was posted, but when I returned to the site to see if there were any replies, I found my post had not actually been posted. So I reposted it. Again, it appeared as posted, but when I refreshed the site, it was gone. I reworded it. Again, not posted. Very odd.

I then posted the following statement to see if it would be posted: “Obama is a fink”!
Well, it made it up, no problem. Then, again I tried a short comment about the misleading headline, and “read the poll”. Again, not posted. So I tried this one “ My grandma died because of Obamacare!” Posted! No problem!

I just wasted an hour trying to get my comment to post, but was only able to get a few scraps of the poll up and a lot of tea bagger hyperbole quotes up, but never was my whole comment allowed to remain posted.

Am I losing it? Could someone please check to see if they can get a post up similar to mine above to stick on this Yahoo page? Does this explain the skewed opinion that shows up on the Yahoo comments for every news article they post? I know newspapers will often not print letters based on the content but somehow I thought the instant online comments were pretty much not censored/edited. Is this what you thought? Am I just an old naive boomer ready for the trashheap?

Here’s the link to the Yahoo webpage and the CBS poll. You’ll see my posts under “Roger”.



Let me know how you make out.

ON EDIT: Just tried again! Must be a different censor...the post went up! YIKES!

Will the supreme court televise the Health Care fight arguments?

I believe they have set aside an unprecedented 5 hours for the hearing but how will the public get the information? Has anyone heard?

Did Rmoney's SPAC hold back on negative ads against Santorum and Newt?

If you are from Mississippi or Alabama tell us what happened down there. In the other states, Romney's machince spent big and smeared his two opponents. Did they realize Mitt didn't have a chance and not spend or were the negative ads ineffective? I can't believe a guy making $500,000 a week opening the mail couldn't do better at beating back his rivals.

Where I come from you don't point your finger at someone...

unless you are asked to by the judge in a court of law!

Time for some training in manners, Jan Brewer.


In 2003, Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney vetoed a bill funding hate crimes prevention


Could this death have been avoided with a little care from Millionaire Romney?


Look at the record if you want to see how Mitt will govern. Read up, get some skills for the fight ahead.

OK folks, it's going to be Romney so start reading up and join the fight.

He says he can work with the Democrats! How'd that go in Massachusetts?

"Romney issued nearly a thousand vetos as governor, the large share of which of which were overturned by one or the other of the state houses.[36][175] Late in Romney's term, his vetos issued began to annoy Republicans in the legislature and he lost support among them too.[36] Nevertheless, Romney defended the practice:

"I know how to veto. I like vetoes. I've vetoed hundreds of spending appropriations as governor."

Read more if you can stand it.


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