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Name: Jim
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Member since: Thu Apr 5, 2012, 08:33 PM
Number of posts: 2,570

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Moore and Krugman piss on the ACA decision

I know that our side is not used to victories and so we're not quite sure how to respond when we get one out of the blue. For some of us, the first inclination is to point out just how weak the Obama law actually is, that it doesn't provide true universal health care (26 million will STILL be uninsured), and that it leaves control of the system in the hands of the vultures, otherwise known as the health insurance companies. The individual mandate was a huge gift to the private insurance companies, guaranteeing them billions more from millions of new customers. And many of the key provisions of this law don't even take effect until 2014 – and if the Republicans win in November, you can kiss all of that goodbye.

So, yes, the bill is highly flawed and somewhat wrong-headed...

So the law that the Supreme Court upheld is an act of human decency that is also fiscally responsible. It’s not perfect, by a long shot — it is, after all, originally a Republican plan, devised long ago as a way to forestall the obvious alternative of extending Medicare to cover everyone. As a result, it’s an awkward hybrid of public and private insurance that isn’t the way anyone would have designed a system from scratch. And there will be a long struggle to make it better, just as there was for Social Security. (Bring back the public option!) But it’s still a big step toward a better — and by that I mean morally better — society.

Should they be admonished or maybe boycotted for having introduced critiques of the ACA, as opposed to focusing exclusively on the "win"?

Quite frankly, other than the needed benefits it represents to millions, I think the biggest win will be the inevitable softening of the scary visage -- kind of a process like then Portrait of Dorian Gray in reverse -- of the "socialist" bogeyman many hold in their tiny and corrupted brains as painted by their rightwing masters. Much as the rightwingnuts have successfully managed to to create Bizarro World-like thinking in their minions -- particularly in the last decade -- where failure is success, etc, as has been noted by some of us since at least the stimulus days, they don't fear the failure of the ACA, they fear its real and potential successes, and the baby step it represents towards single payer because of the stopgap effort it is widely seen as.

We'll have to wait and see given the medicaid thing, how many will inevitably be left out in the insurance cold, which makes it at best a partial success in terms of the completion of the goal for all to be covered. That goal will be easier to achieve politically once more of the rightwingers discover that the ACA doesn't spell socialism doom, reversing their dread and the word "doom" into a "mood" more conducive for acceptance to further travel down the socialism road.

As already argued, the ground already appears to be quite fertile http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/12/09/two-thirds-support-3/ leaving only a need for more cultivation which the ACA could represent the figurative plow for.

Acknowledgement of and complaints about the flaws of the ACA are as important as its human misery-relieving benefits, because that's the path to providing more.

Keep pissing Mike and Paul.

I'll drop a turd in it

Not over the win, but rather the predictable reaction from the "purists" here that regardless of the issue, continually insist that the dem emperor so to speak, is fully clothed, no matter how visible the turd is seen hanging from their anus.

I never supported the mandate and always thought it would be upheld, and as far as the lack of support is concernd, for likely the same reasons others here and elsewhere don't.

What I don't get, is why those who disagree about this and that on principled grounds, and who are otherwise largely your ideological and political allies, are told "politely" (well, that characterization may be a stretch) to sit down and shut up (in the form of an insult to them and their principled stand like "some people love misery -- to paraphrase) because they can't and/or won't share your level of pleasure or enthusiasm stemming from a victory. I'd guess you've never had a coach tell you immediately after a win, that despite it, your performance sucked and needed improvement, no, like in how the win was achieved? http://www.google.com/search?q=%22while+I%27m+pleased+with+the+ein%22&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGHP_en#hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGHP_en&sclient=psy-ab&q=coach+%22while+I%27m+pleased+with+the+win%22&oq=coach+%22while+I%27m+pleased+with+the+win%22&gs_l=serp.12...17235.31297.1.33579.,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=8aabf25a9b44994b&biw=1680&bih=828 Maybe once eh, because you couldn't take what you so freely dish out, criticism in this case directed at an issue, and not you? I'm surprised that coaches that do/say that don't lose their jobs like you'd deny others their voice.

Not only is that kinda BS insulting and grossly dishonest, it's totally indicative of the fact that you can't dispute much less rebut the the various reasons why they don't like the mandate -- like the perpetuation and feeding of the leeches known as insurance companies for example, which also means they'll be wielding the political power they had before, which they'll no doubt use in the event more moves towards single-payer are made. And no, giving the insurance companies millions of new customers is not like paying heating bills (and filling energy producer coffers as a result) or food stamp recipients doing the same for food producers and retailers, because in all those and similar cases, they satisfy immediate survival needs, not the mere potential of one. The similarity begins and ends on the bottom lines of the respective corps that benefit from the benefit. ANd if that analogy was to hold, based on those who will become insured as a result, then what you're cheerleading is satisfaction with it despite the 26M that will still have to do without http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/odonnell-no-matter-how-scotus-rules-afford which what, one can't complain about without fear of reprisal from the "totally elated"? Will those 26M be considered "masochists" too for talking about the inadequacies, methods and means behind the reasons for their continuing plight? This isn't a case in the minds of many of a desire for perfection being the enemy of the good, but rather the complete abandonment of the simplest and best solution that exemplifies "half-assed" in form and measure given that 26M figure.

But then I've never been one to argue that rightwingnuts have a monopoly on shortsightedness or intolerance, or the methods and means to make the existence of both undeniable.

well done

If I were to take a page outta your book, I could easily claim and sustain that most if not all of your elation (and that of others here)is all about the political victory, not the solution to plight for the half or so it represents. After all, you're cheering the failure for the 26M, aren't you? Do you share the apathy so rampant in the rank ranks of rightwingnuts? To say no then undermines your BS here, given that you'd be doing exactly what you've weakly taken others to task for in this top post, no? It's kinda like you being elated in the win, despite losing a teammate to a concussion during the game, no? Winning is everything, isn't it?

I'd be curious to know after this next election, how many lefties stay home, not JUST because of the many and varied disagreements with and disappointments over this and that they have with BHO and the dem leadership, but rather over the treatment they get for daring vocalize them to "tolerant" libs. All this kinda stuff provides is another cross for them to bear, or the feeling that they are an "untouchable". Wow, somebody put a pisser on ignore --- big, as some say, "fugging" deal. That is certainly a wise choice, given the likelihood of a loss upon confrontation. Why should they vote with those who would insult and exclude them? If anyone is the masochist, it's those who push others away over the lack of complete agreement.

And besides, it's not like the less enthused are some tiny minority you can freely piss on

The poll found that a large number of Americans - including about one-third of Republicans and independents who disagree with the law - oppose it because it does not go far enough to fix healthcare.
Seventy-one percent of Republican opponents reject it overall, while 29 percent feel it does not go far enough, while independent opponents are divided 67 percent to 33 percent. Among Democratic opponents, 49 percent reject it overall, and 51 percent wish the measure went further.

now are they, since "further" suggests dissatisfaction that by your standards, should it be expressed in any form or measure, is treason to the cause and therefore justification for things like "some people are only happy being miserable!".

Or how about their distaste for the mandate, the reason/s notwithstanding

Still, the most controversial component of the law - the requirement that nearly all Americans obtain health insurance -- does not sit well with the American public. In that same March poll, 45 percent approve of that provision, but 51 percent do not. According to an April Kaiser Family Foundation survey, seven in ten find that element of the law unfavorable

Also, among those who oppose the law overall in the March CBS News/New York Times Poll, seven in 10 disapprove of the mandate that people buy health insurance.

SO by all means, tell all those who aren't that happy (to fulfill your mandated expectations and definitions as to what constitutes what, a "real" dem, or even as a reasonable and rationale human being it appears) with the survival (but likely immensely so over the misery this has caused rightwingnuts at least, as well as some of the bennies in the bill that deny rightwingnuts a continuation of human misery those sadists relish, etc) of the mandate they're masochists. That should get them running to the voting booth for more abuse from your "It'll be COMPLETELY my way or the highway" kind in the future.

And the next time, if ever, the coach tells you that you need improvement after a win, tell him to piss off, and that we won and that's all that matters, because ALL victories are beyond reproach, and only masochists think otherwise. That's what any "thinking" adult would do, no?

If a relationship can't survive a little legitimate rain on a parade without insulting from "sweet" crybabies afraid of what, melting from the moisture, it ain't a relationship worth preserving anyway. If I was a rightwingnut, I'd take some solace and find some joy in the way some eat their own around here, and unwittingly erode that "enthusiasm" factor as a result, and all in the name of the needed cohesion you destroy with it, eh Mr. Masochist?

just a reminder


I've thought from the beginning that the ACA would be upheld, and have never understood the rightwingnut assault on it given the inevitability of fight over the well supported replacement for it, which is a fight they should lose given that support.

I suppose however, that their masochism dovetails quite nicely with the way they are the best witnesses for their own prosecution, like for example with Romney, the wouldbe Liar in Chief. Sometimes it isn't their lying in fact that makes them that, but something similar to this fight, like using something like his career at Bain that then turns into the bane of his political existence.

Let's hope their pain becomes our collective gain eh?

The Wild Conspiracy Theory Driving The Fast And Furious Investigation

personally I don't think any one thing can provide an explanation for the insanity the modern rightwingnuts are mired in, although I think the umbrella that shields them from the torrential downpour of reality they are constantly in a need of a shielding from, is their idea that any dem in office shouldn't be allowed to be there, if they are there legitimately at all. You can blame ACORN for that.

The only thing remarkable about this issue, is how unremarkable it will eventually be, much like all the other efforts they've tried and failed at. It'll be just another example like countless others of a relatively if not entirely fact-free kind, where it will retain a vestige or more of some element of truth to it (like the 2/3 of rightwingnut idiots still believing in Iraq WMD, despite the liar in chief Bush saying otherwise) that will keep the hate, disgust, and loathing of their rightwingnut minions alive. That's why our forefathers founded this xtian nation and populated it with them ain't it, to assure the more base and darker emotions prevailed in our politics governing those "truths" they held as plainly self-evident? Obviously the rightwingnuts have the consent of their minions to lie without fear of financial or political reprisal in the course of governing, and for the average rightwingnut xtian, sacrificing the 9th Commandment is a very small price to pay. They seek independence from the tyranny of truth, which I suppose would be their right if not for the rest of us. It just so happens most of us took the forefathers seriosly on that matter.

To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

That's the point behind all of their turd tossing and polishing -- keeping the stench on and of their political opposition omni-present in the minds of their mindless "morans", and the truth about themselves hidden and outta the collective conversation. Just like every other examle we can all think of, they'll move on from this embarrassingly stupid episode and convince themselves that once again they got things "right", in an effort to avoid the self-disgust that should accompany being so grossly wrong about so much, not to mention that they are quite evil in their pursuits. This is why things like lying, denial, projection, deflection, etc are the dull tools of choice for the dullards -- hiding from themselves.

This is why I've never been able to figure out which is more/most stupid of them given their record -- their thinking that they have the moral high ground, or that they are the sharpest tools in the shed.

The power of denial in this case can't be denied, can it?

Of course it can, if you're a rightwingnut.

The Wild Conspiracy Theory Driving The Fast And Furious Investigation
By Annie-Rose Strasser posted from ThinkProgress Politics on Jun 22, 2012 at 4:45 pm

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA)
Here is theory that some Congressional Republicans believe: The Obama Administration intentionally handed over automatic weapons to Mexican drug cartels, who they knew would commit violent acts, because they wanted to scare Americans into supporting stricter gun laws.

That supposed series of events has now led Congress to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt.


nothing new there

the sad part is, in my recollection most of the things you listed as being "good for the environment" have been couched in "energy" terms, and sold as such in conjunction with the "energy" pursuits you disapprove of, not with a focus on their impact on global warming. That's why I say, he hasn't really spoken for the planet much, and what little he has is way outta proportion with the speaking for and action on the interests of selected demographics.

Perhaps maybe you missed the overarching point of my post. I too was a Dean supporter in 2004, and would have preferred Dennis even the last time around. The main point I was trying to make is that there seems to be some major intra-party divisions arising between the "purists" and those who choose to criticize BHO in conjunction with expressions of disenchantment, a loss of enthusiasm, etc, here on DU, and just about everywhere else I sporadically read and post. As noted in my previous response, the only thing that seems to differentiate you and them, is your enthusiasm.

I'm not and didn't intend to be criticizing your enthusiasm despite the many reasons you've shared that could have resulted in a diminshment of it as it has in so many others, I was commenting to whatever readers that might stumble upon in both camps -- the enthused and those who have lost it wholly or in part -- in an effort to end the BS, which is largely coming from the "purist" camp. As noted as well, in the final analysis, the only thing that matters is the number of bodies in the voting booth in Nov, and I see all the condemnation of those who criticize BHO (absent your enthusiasm qualification) as threat to the body count. To see what I mean, try posting a post purely and solely critical of BHO on this or that issue, and see what happens around here.

I say this because I'm a realist too. People with complaints need to air them without fear of reprisal from those who are otherwise their ideological and political allies, and acceptance within that fold can't be conditional upon their sharing the level of enthusiasm those like you and others have maintained despite the many disappointments they may or may not have, like the ones you shared.

I was not very enthused at all when I voted for BHO the first time for many reasons I won't bore you with here. Like you however, for at least as many reasons I don't regret my vote, and despite the fact that all the reasons I was unenthused about have achieved fruition. What I know I would regret, is sitting idly/silently by as efforts were/are made to paint those like me that have criticisms and reservations while lacking the enthusiasm you have maintained, are treated like an enemy. Not only is it counter-productive to our shared goal -- getting him reelected -- it's just plain wrong no matter how you slice it, and particularly when BHO himself has said he wants us to hold his feet to the fire. If not for that -- as about any politically astute gay person could tell you for example, would their civil rights problems have been rectified as or to the extent they have been?

I've thought about doing a top post on this matter, because it is of great concern to me, but as a relative newbie, it's doubtful that I can compete with the many expert C&Pers here and their entourages. I have therefore decided to raise this point where ever and whenever the opportunity presents itself, to maximize the reading of it. So far that has been directly to the "purists" around here that would like to see no doubt, any criticism of BHO disallowed and perhaps even, a banning offense. I doubt seriously anyone like me is trying to dampen the enthusiasm of those like you as they charge, but rather following their own drum beat or music produced by their conscience strings in an effort to promote change, much as you'd like to on the subject of the climate. I see the divisions being created creating a climate conducive for less participation in Nov, not more, by the insistance that everyone be part of nothing but the cheerleading squad, or else.

I'll apologize if you think this off point and a muddying of your post, despite my holding the opposite pov. I see it as being more than tangential to your top post, since the "enthusiasm" you focused on seesm to be the difference between second class BHO supporterhood and not, if not outright treason to the cause.

When is an admission not an admission?

when it's already common knowledge.

The Liberal" media http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6 http://mediamatters.org/blog/201206140005 myth was one of the first shiny objects the rightwingnut monied interests hypnotised their gullible minions with decades ago. I've never been able to figure out how Bush survived it.

It's "liberal" like the Mutt is a centrist, or BHO a socialist.

Politico Reporter Admits The Press Is Covering For Republican Obstructionism
videoby Tommy Christopher | 11:18 am, June 14th, 2012
» 133 comments Against overwhelming evidence that Republicans have plotted to obstruct everything President Obama does, even the things they agree with, the mainstream media has stubbornly insisted that “both sides” are the problem, that there’s just a “polarization” problem in DC. In an interview on Current TV’s The War Room with Jennifer Granholm, Politico‘s Joe Williams says that the press has been cowed into this perversion of “objectivity” by a right-wing that specializes in working the ref (I’m paraphrasing, of course).

more here http://www.mediaite.com/tv/politico-reporter-admits-the-press-is-covering-for-republican-obstructionism/

Join the growing crowd


I've been battling the proponents and supporters of it since the Clinton days.

What the "man in the street" variety of this can't or wont' understand, is that it is the proximate cause of disillusionment and disenchantment BHO is suffering from on the left. The reaon why this is particularly acute now, as opposed to when the DLC-types launched their mission to allow the tendrils of corporate control to infiltrate the dem party during the Clinton years, was because of the bubble-induced economic joy lacking now, and because after the Bush disaster, they were abnormally high on the remedy BHO represented. (One of the reasons I was encouraged to vote for him, was because he told the DLC to take his name off their member list.) Collectively and individually emotionally, BHO supporters had much farther to fall given the heights hope and change reached, and it is the extra hard landing in reality the many stories like this one resulted in, that makes them "hurt" all the more -- the being "duped" element notwithstanding.

THe truly sad part is, following this "happy v content" model, is that even for those of us that avoided the starry-eyed love affair with him (happy, happy, happy) there's been such a long list of things like this that have accumulated, that even "contentment" is completely outta reach, leaving him little at this point for his reelection prospects but far more voting against the kook Romney, and not for him.

THis is why I've long thought and argued in the wake of the too little stimulus, ACA, and his support for the catfood commission, that fear of rightwingnuttery is the only trump card he has left, and he the only choice we have.

What the "purist" don't realize, is the intregal role all of this plays in the moving of DC and the ideological center line further rightward, and the policy goals of those on the left therefore further outta reach. At this point we'll be lucky but certainly not
"content", to keep things like SS and Medicare intact.

It kinda parallels the "First they came for the ... and I said nothing" line, and was maintained by the same evil apathy they display today when they get on board with things like "kill lists" they'd surely have condemned during the Bush years, given the innocent lives lost as a result of it.

The worst part about it is, they have the audacity to condemn those that condemn or even "mildly criticise" legitimately things that have an incontrovertibly factually and easily defensible moral foundation.

This is why I've been telling lefties and righties alike for the last ten years, that fascism is encroaching, and Bush merely put a militaristic face on it lacked in magnitude prior to his administration.

To those like you I've said said http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/14/michael-tomasky-gives-the-president-some-advice-grow-a-pair-obama.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=cheatsheet_morning&cid=newsletter%3Bemail%3Bcheatsheet_morning&utm_term=Cheat%20Sheet, and don't let despair get in the way of hope that are efforts will eventually pay off. Tenacity has a way of keeping it alive.

"When we have the courage to speak out -- to break our silence -- we inspire the rest of the "moderates" in our communities to speak up and voice their views."
-- Sharon Schuster

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could
do only a little."
-- Edmund Burke, statesman and writer (1729-1797)

I'm not that familiar with her

or her various efforts, but if indeed she's guilty of the sin of hypocrisy born of such efforts, that in no way invalidates the truth in her words.

I've been battling lefties and righties alike much like GG for the last ten years and more. The only thing I can say, is that I've only maintained friends/allies on the left despite the disagreements, not any on the right in recent years.

That's the problem I have with the lefty "purists" as another DUer described them in another post -- our disagreements can and should result in the betterment of our choices and the party we'd like to purge the rightwing attributes, policy preferences, etc, out of, not divisions that threaten unity. One can talk about and pursue pragamtism all they want, but the bottom line is principles, and there comes a point where pragmatism threatens them. If someone like GG. or you or I for that matter, can't even criticize based on principles we hold dear and apply without regard for anything else without fear of such reprisals, then there is no alliance, just an adversarial relationship that can, and likely will be, as intractable as any one can enjoy with a rightwinger, because BS like that personalizes it.

The worst part about it is imo, is like with say, the "kill list". This gives the righties ammo, since it's impossible to defend against the "if Bush had done that" charge, given it's an escalation in pres power that most of the left woulda screamed about had he grabbed it instead. Condemning those creeps is easiest and the most fun, when we're not Pharisees in large numbers...

As they should have

key to it is this

But most of the insults I get related to politics come because I don’t support individual candidates with either my reporting or my opinion writing, and because I feel really quite free to criticize even the ones who come the closest to my own personal politics as our democratic process allows. In that, Glenn Greenwald and I have something in common.

Goodness — and Greenwald — knows I’m hardly in agreement with every position he’s taken, but I will absolutely defend his right to take those positions without being subject to the kind of stupid, reductionist criticism we on the left all decried during the Bush years.

in other words, many lefties act like the Bushbots they use to criticise if not condemn for that kinda behavior. ANd it's not just the dehumanizing, etc rhetoric across the political/ideological divide that's at issue here, it's the intra-ideological stuff, because GG is a lefty as far as I can tell. They wanna give him the same treatment the rightwingnuts have their dissenters like Frum, Bartlett, and now, likely Jeb Bush as well. "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" for me, but not for thee, is the manure they are spreading.

It's what underlies all the "be quiet, you're endangering BHO"s reelection chances!" BS, like the many criticisms of him of this kind aren't common knowledge, and to criticize him is gonna unduly influence the ignorant or something.

It isn't the criticisms or the criticizers that that are responsible for the divisions of the election-threatening kind they whine about, but rather the things criticized and the treatment the criticizers get from the Obamabots for choosing to air the grievances as opposed to pretending he isn't occasionally naked. They make it "either support everything he does or else" thing, or expect the treatment the likes of GG and other vociferous critics have recieved.

So protest votes (meaning not voting, as opposed to going with the MUtt) can and likely will arise not just due to the lack of support for everything BHO has done or because some of them are unacceptable, but also because the "enemy-like" status on a personal level, the Obamabots attempt to make one feel like.

They are imo, short-sighted knuckleheads, just like the Bushbots that came before them. That's why I have no use for them, not because we have disagreements about BHO's policy pursuits, etc. They'd better hope that the anger they inject into others with this kinda garbage isn't taken out on BHO in Nov, because that would be their participating in realizing a "self-fulfilling prophecy".

what balderdash

the unsupported nature of it notwithstanding, it's nothing more than a worthless criticism of the criticisms you obviously can't undermine in any meaningfull way, leaving them legitimate and intact. Speaking only for myself, I've thought since he was elected that his reelection was assured, unless the repubs nominated someone who could restore some sanity to the party. That however, has played no role in my criticisms of him, only the legitimacy of the criticisms and the principled stand they represent. You appear to be asking those with principles to abandon them, which is not just unreasonable and unrealistic,

It's also nothing more than an example perhaps, of why this rule, http://www.americablog.com/2011/09/why-is-it-that-so-many-critics-of-obama.html also applies to the lefty political warriors found on places like this.

And responsibility for the criticisms and their outcome is his

Obama supporters would answer that question by arguing that now is not the time to criticize the president because the alternative--electing a Republican--would be worse. Now is the time to mute criticism, because criticism can be embarrassing and dispiriting. Buck up, Dems, forget issues and actual performance, now is the time for cheerleaders, not critics. We can reconvene on the issues after Obama gets re-elected.


which is eactly what this kinda stuff is all about http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/06/08/liberals-threaten-not-to-vote-in-november-over-disappointment-with-obama/

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/obamas-2008-donors-dont-give-in-2012 all of which is something he should be criticized for, including the result in the latter link, should it jeapordize his reelection chances.

and what's most insulting about it, is that should a loss occur and be reasonably attributable to a "lack of enthusiasm", that it will be predominantly because of those who noticed the "emperor had no clothes on", not the condition he's had a big hand in creating. Second to that, is the idea that one can't criticize BHO with the intent of continued support, like they are mutually exclusive concepts, because anyone that criticizes BHO over this and that haven't a big enough brain to hold both of those things in their undersized or deluded brain.

I've long thought and argued elsewhere since the stimulus, that while the lack of enthusiasm is real and justified over it, and compounded over this and that since -- which is revealed and justified by the way the criticisms survive scrutiny -- the fear of rightwingnutttery will more than compensate for it this Nov.

If some choose to not vote for BHO because of their disappointments, it's highly doubtful it will be because of the work of those criticizing him, but rather to be attributed to knowledge and opinions they've acquired on their own.

This kinda talk reminds me of the path Bushbots took, that indeed resulted in his reelection (the potential theft of it in Ohio notwithstanding) but left them collectively in the current shameless condition of dishonesty and denial they are currently in.

Of course we need to "unite", but that doesn't mean an end to the demands of a better second term and policies those criticisms represent. The idea that dems voters are just mindless and impressionable nincompoops who'll be unduly influenced by others rather than the incontrovertible facts they are fully aware of, is preposturous. I'd like to see BHO reelected too, but not at the price of condemning those who voted their conscience and because of the undeniable disappointments. This isn't a case of "perfection being the enemy of the good" but rather for many, between repub-lite, (the Greenwald/Jones/etc pov) and the real thing. That's why I say, most will go with the former, not the latter, and in part because many are awakening to the fact that that's what they've done before.

and it's his presidency that has raised that awareness, because of the diff between what many thought they were voting for, and what they got to this point.

and besides, as I recall, and will confirm if needed, that BHO himself has made it clear http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=obama%20said%20he%20%22welcomes%20criticism%22&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CFIQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2Fdiscuss%2Fduboard.php%3Faz%3Dshow_mesg%26forum%3D102%26topic_id%3D4946549%26mesg_id%3D4947268&ei=G1bWT62cFcTo6gGVrbyRAw&usg=AFQjCNG7EtbbGwRCgmzV57Y4UGlkpE2Ipg that your pov is all wet.

which is exactly what most of his critics of the non-rightwingnut kind are doing
As for his previous complaints about Obama, “It’s my job, whoever the president is, to hold his feet to the fire,” he said. “And I will continue to do that. There are lots of issues I have with the president—mostly on national security. I would rather he have Ron Paul’s foreign policy and brought troops home and cut the defense budget and all that stuff, but part of it is I do think he has gotten better… I really think he’s getting his mojo back.”

just because we don't have the million clams doesn't change a damn thing, but by all means, send Bill a letter and tell him to shut up, no?

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