Victor_c3
Victor_c3's JournalMaybe I'm out of line on this one
but I hate it when the military dead get lumped into the memories of September 11th.
To me this day is all about the civilian dead and the first responders who, without hesitation, ran into a building to save anyone they could. I mentioned this in another thread just a couple of minutes ago, but these are the people that monuments should be built for - not for the Soldiers like me. Memorials and monuments to war, I believe, give the impression that war can be a glorious cause. There is no glory in combat, but the people who died on September 11th, 2001 are people who we should idolize and be building monuments for.
I know it sounds callous toward our war dead and military service members, but as a disabled veteran I feel I can say this. Veterans and the war dead have their own days to be remembered. Leave today for us to remember the civilians and first responders who died with nothing but the purest intentions of selfless service.
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Kurt Vonnegut, in his book "God bless You Mr. Rosewater" made it clear that the two groups of people he most respects are Volunteer Firefighters and Infantrymen. I don't know if I'd place an Infantryman at the top of the heap of most respected, but the Firemen and Policemen have my absolute respect for how they reacted to the events of September 11th. The people who went into the buildings of the WTC complex without any regard for themselves are to be absolutely admired.
We should be building monuments to people like these and not to people like me who fought in wars. Building monuments to wars, in my opinion, builds a false premise that there is glory to be achieved in combat - which there isn't. However we should admire pure selflessness and service of the firefighters and police officers who died that day.
Kind of a chilling article for me
I've posted this on several other threads, but I started life a conservative (although I never agreed with the religious stance of the party). Much like this guy, I had the similar belief of the good of war and that it is needed to enforce a peace. I found myself in Iraq in 2004 and the war changed me hard. I had no idea what to expect when I deployed. Actually, none of us did. 2003 (the first year of the war) was a formative year for the insurgency. By 2004, the Insurgency was in full force and attacks and military deaths peaked. I served as an Infantry Platoon Leader and I was working out of Baqubah, Iraq. In short, they don't put Infantry in nice places - and it didn't take long for the intensity of the war to catch up to me and my unit.
A few years back I was reading an article about PTSD and why the numbers of Soldiers in todays wars are staggering compared to those of wars past. Yes, I do know that PTSD wasn't even recognized as an official mental disorder until the 1980s, but it was known by a variety of other terms in the past. In WWII, because of the way that fronts and units shifted, the average American Soldier saw combat once every 6 months. In Korea is was once every 3 months and in Vietnam, it was once every 3 weeks. When I was in Iraq, My platoon probably had something happen to it once every 2-3 weeks. It wasn't always hardcore combat, but we'd get a struck by an IED, or engaged in a small arms ambush, a couple of random sniper shots when we'd conduct a dismounted patrol, a hand grenade thrown at us, and then, very occasionally, involved in a large-scale attack.
As an aside, many of the "cowboys" in the "wild west" are theorized to have been civil war veterans who were mentally messed up by the war. I believe the Hells Angels and a bunch of biker gangs were started after WWII by a bunch of psychologically broken veterans seeking adventure and who couldn't adjust back to "normal" life.
Anyways, without getting into the gory details, you don't have to stuff too many body bags with bits and pieces of what used to be human beings to make you question your one cherished beliefs. The war started a reaction in me that took a couple of years to fully develope, but it turned me hard to the left in my political leanings.
Yup, I'd definitely think it was a prank
I'd probably cry if I were to actually talk to him. The war has made me an emotional wreck and he has done a lot of things to make me proud of being an American - something I haven't felt since before I deployed to Iraq in 2004.
Your line "other countries appreciate our POTUS more than many Americans! "
I agree with what you say and I absolutely love Obama (Obama winning the 2008 election was, without a doubt, my number 1 most "proud of America" moment).
When I was in Iraq in 2004, some of the locals would tell me how much they loved G.W. Bush. They were totally shocked when I told them that I couldn't stand that guy. However, I guess they were in a country where if they said they didn't like their leader they were executed.
I guess you can't always go with what people in other countries think....
I start shaking even thinking about more war
Romney and his draft dodging is bad enough. Then to say to a group of Vietnman veterans that he somehow felt envious because he didn't have the opportunity to experience the "glory" of combat is unexcusable. I remember very vividly G.W. mentioned that he felt similar envy for Soldiers that were getting ready to deploy with the 82nd Airborne Division.
Statements and misconceptions that there is actually a sense of glory to be had in combat is extremely upsetting to me, not to mention dangerous to our country. I can't speak for all combat veterans, but I know I certainly didn't feel any sense of patriotism or glory recovering the dead and wounded after firefight. And I certainly don't feel any of those proud feelings now as I waddle through life as a broken veteran with a slew of wonderful PTSD issues and as a shadow of the person I was before the war in Iraq. The emotions I feel are more on the order of shame and guilt.
(please, don't feel obligated to respond to this. I'm not looking for sympathy or words of encouragement.)
Nice call. I wouldn't mind seeing him.
I don't know as much about this guy as I should, but the various news bits I hear about my governor make me very happy with him. He is willing to make tough decisions and he embraces the social issues that are important to me.
However, before I really support him for something like president, I'm going to have to educate myself more on this guy. But based on what I know about him, I like him. A lot.
Hillary Clinton would be my "wet dream". Assuming that she serves as secretary of state until 2016, she'd just be able to roll right in to being president. Stepping into the office of president after already having had built relationships with foreign heads of state for 8 years would make her "ready to roll" in the world of international relations. Not to mention how often former first spouses serve as figure-heads. Bill Clinton would be a great first spouse when it came to going abroud. I'd be proud of them, for sure.
I hate to sound so callous
but what do you expect? A war is being fought over there and, unfortunately, the vast majority of the victims are women and children. I hate to keep recycling the same facts over and over again, but the ratio of civilians killed in war compared to soldiers killed in war is 10:1 in 20th century wars. Search "civilian casualty ratio" on wikipedia.
I'm just as angry at this as you guys obviously are and I feel powerless that I don't know how to stop it.
It makes me think of the Blak Sabbath song "War Pigs"
As a combat veteran who dealt with a lot of... well... combat firsthand, I don't understand how anyone who has actually fought in a war could support this guy. This guys talks about the "envy" he has of his peers who actually served in combat operations in Vietnam and his missed opportunities for glory.
Really? There is glory in combat? please explain that one to me. I saw my share of combat in Iraq and I stuffed my share of body bags while I was there too. I had the "honor" of picking up a dead body and having them spill their contents from its stomache and ass all over me. I've looked at the blank eyes and gaping moutgh of a person I shot and a subordinate I lost in the war and I experienced the "privaledge" and "glory" of wathing a young child my platoon shot in combat die before my eyes when I found him in his final moments of life after a firefight in a field. What part of that is glorious? What part of that is supposed to bestoy an unbriddled sense of patriotism over me? I wish he'd explain that one to me and the rest of the military before he sends them in to fight another war in Iraq or Syria like he wishes to do.
Yup, there are a lot of reasons for a combat veteran like me to hold their head up high for :rolleyes: Willard "mitt(ens)" Romney definitely has a lot to be jealous of when he addresses veterans.
Yup. Things like PTSD and the issues broken veterans like me have to deal with becuase of politicians like Romney and W. Bush and their belief that there is glory to be had in war are things that you'd wish you had to deal with. What a piece of shit.
People like Romney are dangerous and unfathomably destructive to the world. He is the problem, not the solution.
I sure hope so
I'm hafway to drunk right now!
It's funny. The psychiatrist at the VA tells me not to mix my medication with alcohol, but i find I get the best results from my meds when I do mix it with alcohol. 
well, in this case, DU
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Member since: Wed Aug 15, 2012, 02:17 PMNumber of posts: 3,557
