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pinebox

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Member since: Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:31 AM
Number of posts: 5,761

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What Hillary supporters don't understand

Ok, I am going to do my best here to explain some things and this is a response to the post here;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1101227
Bernie JOINED the Dem party to try to become president because he knew he couldn't win otherwise. And yet so many Bernie fans trash the party that he voluntarily JOINED. Such hypocrisy. So pathetic.

And the thing is, BERNIE would be disappointed. I love Bernie, but some of his supporters are saying things that are just plain off the beam. "Hillary is a war monger." "Hillary is a Republican." And on and on and on. Wild eyed and off the beam.

If the Dem party is so terrible, why did Bernie so recently JOIN it?????????


Let me put this into perspective.
I think one of the biggest things that Hillary supporters fail to understand is that people followed Bernie. Look, I'll be honest. I myself am an indy with green leaning who SWITCHED to Democrat in order to caucus for Bernie. Some of you may dislike that but the fact is, Bernie is growing the Democratic party. Period. Hillary is not.

A lot of people are fed up right now, I mean really fed up. People are busting their asses working 40/hrs a week and aren't able to make it. Hillary is seen as a peace-meal approach but you know, we've tried that and it's failed. Wall Street has gotten richer and there are more people on food stamps now than ever before. People are literally suffering in America and Hillary is seen as more of the same old-same old. An enabler of a system that has left millions of people ion the shadows.

One perfect example right now is both the fight for single payer and minimum wage. It's basic math. Despite people saving more with single payer, Hillary supporters spin it about taxes when the truth is the savings in single payer > the tax increase. It's money in your pocket and minimum wage? We are really having this fight? You're Dems FFS! Why should anybody work 40/hrs a week and rely on Gov't assistance? They sure as hell shouldn't be! Fuck that noise!

This is the defining difference, right here---

Many Bernie supporters are voting for HIM and NOT the Democratic party. That is the huge difference BUT if you want then to stay around and still be Dems after the election, well you know what you have to do--start supporting principles which are Dem foundations and not more wars, big money in DC and by God start fighting for a living wage!

People have lost hope, a lot of hope. Bernie gives millions that again.
This what it's about



It's truly sad "Democrats" are throwing universal health care under the bus

It is and honestly this should be an issue we ALL agree on.
It's time to have a liberal litmus test.

"The angry white people have been there from the start, and now he's added magic unicorn policies to the mix" says it all right there. Yes, people are pissed and is it any wonder? They've been screwed over by politicians on BOTH sides. Period. People are sick and tired of politics and politicking by representatives who claim to be for them but in the end act like they belong to the other party over all. Casein point; the 89 Democrats (including DWS) who voted to gut SNAP http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/1/29/1273428/-These-89-Democrats-Voted-to-Cut-8-7-Billion-from-Food-Stamps

That's one example of many. If we want to go on, we can talk about Hillary and how she voted for building a border fence which O'Malley hit her on http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/1/29/1273428/-These-89-Democrats-Voted-to-Cut-8-7-Billion-from-Food-Stamps

Yeah, people are pissed.

This whole entire "how much will it cost" coming from Dems about Bernie's health care plan sounds identical to Paul Ryan when Obama first proposed the ACA. The talking points coming from Hillary supporters are IDENTICAL and you've just shown that. Are we going to start hearing about the "Bernie single payer death panel" or "Bernie death panels" next?

Health care is a HUMAN RIGHT and we are the only country among all first world countries who doesn't have it. You sight cost but yet in the end, you actually save money because the cost of your deductible is greatly reduced under a single payer system. Your talking points here with what you say with "admitting that Single Payer would mean a significant number of people would either pay more, have worse coverage than they do now, or both" is exactly the kind of fear mongering that Republicans did with the ACA. It's a conservative talking point yet you've nothing to back that up. However I do.

Under a single payer system, people get better care. From Physicians for a National Health Program....
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/quality.pdf (more at link)

* Single-payer creates a single-tiered system that covers all people equally regardless of age,
income, employment, or diagnosis. Under single-payer, every American would be covered by the
insurance plan in their state or region, which would pay hospitals and doctors – who would remain
private – directly. This unified system would foster universal high quality, because quality of care
would have to be kept high enough to be acceptable to all citizens. Other proposals perpetuate a
multi-tiered health systeŠm.

Š*Single-payer would allow patients to choose their physicians and to continue to see them if they
changed jobs or financial status. No other proposal can assure this. This continuity of doctors
and nurses, who can get to know and care about patients, is critical to quality, but is rapidly
disappearing from the medical landscape, as HMOs/insurers hire and fire physicians, and
employers’ shift plans to take advantage of the lowest price each year. These disruptions in care are
built into other reform proposals.

Š*Single-payer reform makes health care affordable and accessible to all. Health care that is
denied or delayed because of costs – or, increasingly, because an insurer is refusing coverage – can
no longer be characterized as the “highest quality in the world.” Single-payer uses savings on
administrative waste (over $350 billion annually) to fund coverage of uninsured and to improve
benefits to insured Americans


You say
"Now she is better not just on guns, but also on healthcare, and a few other issues including financial reform. But Bernie consolidates his advantage with the passionate left-wing base."
yet in the end, more people agree with Bernie's policies than Hillary's and identify with them. This is what you Hillary supporters don't understand it is a reason why she is beginning to tank.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/more-and-more-americans-agree-bernie-sanders-and-not-just-those-who-identify-left
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/06/03/polls-americans-socialists-bernie-sanders.html
You say "left wing" like that's a bad thing. Sorry but "left wing" is a beautiful thing. You have a problem with getting the money out of politics, free college, universal health care, a living wage, less wars, more concentration on the American people than on regime change? These are Dem ideals. The problem is the party in many respects has moved right. FDR is rolling in his grave and Ike is saying a gigantic "WTF, I'd be labeled a socialist today".

Sorry but when you throw single payer under the bus, you better check yourself before you wreck yourself.

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