General Discussion

TheMastersNemesis

(10,602 posts) Fri Jan 19, 2018, 07:41 AM Jan 2018

NAFTA Was Bill Clintons Biggest Historic Blunder. Festering Resentment Sunk Hillary In The End. [View all]

When Bill Clinton supported NAFTA and made a deal with Gingrich (who later helped impeach him) it was a blunder of historic proportions. I knew at the time what it would do and that it would end up damaging the Democrats for years. Bill Clinton divided the Democrats over the issue and pretty much force them to vote for something that they were fundamentally against.

He also supported favored nation status for China. NAFTA was a very bad deal for workers in the US and it was negotiated by Bush I and the GOP. Besides NAFTA also hurt Mexico in the end. We lost a large part of our manufacturing jobs as a result.

Flyover country was hurt the worst. And it set up a scenario that forced American workers to compete in a global market place with substandard wages. We lost jobs in industries like steele, shoe making, clothing et al.

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NAFTA Was Bill Clintons Biggest Historic Blunder. Festering Resentment Sunk Hillary In The End. [View all] TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 OP

That probably rings true to some degree Lee-Lee Jan 2018 #1

Flyover country includes farmers, and they did great NickB79 Jan 2018 #2

+1 nycbos Jan 2018 #34

At least big ag did well. SharonClark Jan 2018 #131

Not for American small farmers Farmer-Rick Jan 2018 #155

NAFTA was started and steered toward enactment by George H.W. Bush for the most part. no_hypocrisy Jan 2018 #3

Thank you. I was just about to post this. nt a la izquierda Jan 2018 #8

That doesnt matter to people who lost their jobs when the factories closed YessirAtsaFact Jan 2018 #26

GHWB couldn't get it done; Clinton could shanny Jan 2018 #9

agreed gopiscrap Jan 2018 #106

oh OK he only signed it so it's all good shanny Jan 2018 #24

And what's the point of the OP? It's old news, very old. We've got an orange maniac to deal with. brush Jan 2018 #56

not a fan of truth and reconciliation in general? ok shanny Jan 2018 #74

Not a fan of rewriting history- the only economic issue Trump won on was fear of immigrants- bettyellen Jan 2018 #81

Trump lost on economic issues, including among union voters. He won because the FBI deliberately StevieM Jan 2018 #92

He did not lose on economic issues and the OP is correct. former9thward Jan 2018 #116

That poll was taken before the election and before HRC destroyed Trump in 3 debates. StevieM Jan 2018 #118

Fine, if you have better information than just your opinion then post it. former9thward Jan 2018 #123

2016 exit polling tammywammy Jan 2018 #124

Thanks for the link. former9thward Jan 2018 #138

I see you too. shanny Jan 2018 #141

False narratives arent helpful when determining where the party goes from here. Were not going to bettyellen Jan 2018 #143

Not all anti-trade voters are bigots shanny Jan 2018 #144

Why are we still discussing your false narrative about trade being the huge issue? You think if you bettyellen Jan 2018 #146

Please do point out where I said "trade (is) the huge issue"? I'll wait. shanny Jan 2018 #148

You referred to the OP as truth and reconciliation and now you walk it back? Lotta integrity bettyellen Jan 2018 #149

Nice try. shanny Jan 2018 #150

You were defending the warped and innacurate POV of this OP. bettyellen Jan 2018 #151

just side-stepping your out-of-context "quote" shanny Jan 2018 #158

Why does your post 137 show concern about moving forward, R B Garr Jan 2018 #157

Slippery reasoning- youd have to believe they meant nothing at all... bettyellen Jan 2018 #160

Exactly, and exactly right about the false narratives. R B Garr Jan 2018 #161

Great, just what we need, Dem navel gazing in despair from 5 elections ago. brush Jan 2018 #89

That seems to be about it Hekate Jan 2018 #121

yes, let's keep on looking forward and not back shanny Jan 2018 #137

It explains why Clinton lost in key states. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #76

Voters who cited economics as #1 went for HRC. Immigration and the wall put him over w voters. bettyellen Jan 2018 #82

I wonder how many of those who voted for Trump are immigrants or the children Sophia4 Jan 2018 #84

Disgruntled far lefties pushed the NAFTA meme more than the GOP did- they still are trying to claim bettyellen Jan 2018 #88

Clinton "loss" because of vote suppression, Putin, Assange, Comey, broken voting machines... brush Jan 2018 #90

We need election protection action. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #94

Oh please. This is a common repug trick. Don't give us that "Why wasn't this done in 2016?" brush Jan 2018 #96

Was election protection done in vulnerable areas at least in 2016? Sophia4 Jan 2018 #97

No mention of Putin, Assange, Comey? brush Jan 2018 #98

Putin and Assange may have swayed a number of voters, but the post I Sophia4 Jan 2018 #100

In open primaries I suppose, where others can influence Dem elections? brush Jan 2018 #102

No. In a primary in which you have to be well versed on the rules if you are Sophia4 Jan 2018 #105

Open primaries are a horrible idea, as are caucuses. brush Jan 2018 #110

Tell that to young people and others who register for strange parties. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #115

Registering as a Democrat is not hard. If they really are Dems they will. brush Jan 2018 #117

Technical details don't matter in matters of politics. jl_theprofessor Jan 2018 #126

ditto. nt LSFL Jan 2018 #135

No. Russian interference in our election sunk Hillary. GoCubsGo Jan 2018 #4

Lol Fullduplexxx Jan 2018 #5

No, it was russia and racism. They had no problem voting for free trade GOP over Feingold JI7 Jan 2018 #6

+1, Fiengold loss has a couple of tells in it that stuff went REALLY wrong in 16 1. the flip in ... uponit7771 Jan 2018 #21

Another "Hey, let's pretend the world is not globalizing" post. Adrahil Jan 2018 #7

Transform them into what? shanny Jan 2018 #10

Maybe we can all become bankers? Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2018 #12

there ya go shanny Jan 2018 #23

Hey, by all means, tell me how you do it!? Adrahil Jan 2018 #46

Tell me what we all adapt to and I'll do it. lapfog_1 Jan 2018 #108

Lots of possibilities. Adrahil Jan 2018 #44

Green alone would create millions of new jobs if we had a non traitor, non criminal in the WH Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #52

if you think people would forgo their toys shanny Jan 2018 #73

Amen.... vi5 Jan 2018 #77

You're on the right track. Green energy, infrastructure and tech with job training for all brush Jan 2018 #107

Yeah, that's what we were told as people with great paying jobs/skills were being let go. We would RKP5637 Jan 2018 #104

It isn't about if, but how zipplewrath Jan 2018 #17

Exactly... and they are not protectionist. Adrahil Jan 2018 #45

Good Policy zipplewrath Jan 2018 #67

Very intelligent post. Employers' taxes should pay for training and educating our Sophia4 Jan 2018 #79

Yup zipplewrath Jan 2018 #85

No. Let's stand athwart history and yell "Stop". DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2018 #18

I don't think it was the main issue, but it didn't help Hillary. Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2018 #11

I made that mistake 16 years earlier genxlib Jan 2018 #14

I figured that Du(m)bya had a shot. Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2018 #16

So was I mvd Jan 2018 #69

Comey and the FBI were the main factors in that election, hands down. StevieM Jan 2018 #93

I don't know about destroyed, but I already said they were factors mvd Jan 2018 #132

She already won the popular vote handily mvd Jan 2018 #133

She would have won--decisively--had it not been for James Comey. (eom) StevieM Jan 2018 #95

I think there is some truth to what you say genxlib Jan 2018 #13

Deplorables are motivated by racial anxiety. not economic anxiety. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2018 #15

This Is A Fact Post in This Thread ProfessorGAC Jan 2018 #25

+1 EffieBlack Jan 2018 #27

You are leaving out the most important element of their toxic brew - slavish devotion to patriarchy. Moostache Jan 2018 #30

Also true. Men feeling superfluous and striking back. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #83

+1 Blue_Tires Jan 2018 #66

Hard to say. The racial anxiety grows out of the economic anxiety. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #80

no, they are just a bunch of racist fucking bigots. Native Americans have it worse and they aren't JI7 Jan 2018 #139

Those are related mythology Jan 2018 #113

Those jobs were going to cheaper labor markets no matter what. yardwork Jan 2018 #19

THIS DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2018 #33

I agree. MGKrebs Jan 2018 #49

I recall that being the reasoning behind NAFTA at the time. yardwork Jan 2018 #129

Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #20

NAFTA began as a Conservative ideal, laissez-Faire approach to economics. Saboburns Jan 2018 #22

Are we living in parallel universes GulfCoast66 Jan 2018 #91

Clinton Derangement Syndrome is real. NCTraveler Jan 2018 #28

I remember when Clinton was elected. Before he took office... haele Jan 2018 #37

+1000, this looks like the Dem bashing from the Hartmann R B Garr Jan 2018 #42

Well, let's get rid of the European Common Market, or the EU, while we're at it... Rollo Jan 2018 #29

All false Johnny2X2X Jan 2018 #31

Trump has a GOP Congress. If he wanted to end NAFTA he could. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2018 #35

Trade is good Johnny2X2X Jan 2018 #38

You Simply Do Not Get It. There WAS NO Net Gain. Worked At DOL For 24 Years. Saw The Carnage Daily. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #70

Thanks for the anecdotal evidence Johnny2X2X Jan 2018 #72

Absolutely incorrect mythology Jan 2018 #130

The same NAFTA complainers go to Walmart HopeAgain Jan 2018 #32

I was working and an active union member mountain grammy Jan 2018 #36

i think the crime bill's effect was probably bigger questionseverything Jan 2018 #153

Yes, many of us saw first hand the factory closures and heard people telling how they had to OhioBlue Jan 2018 #163

No. It was Russia and sexism. Aristus Jan 2018 #39

These comments project authority and knowledge. Makes one curious. appalachiablue Jan 2018 #165

What do I care? Aristus Jan 2018 #166

Evident and South Parkesque. Generalizing and characterizing appalachiablue Jan 2018 #167

That's a very thorough and complete political history of West Virginia. Aristus Jan 2018 #168

I disagreed with NAFTA. But you do understand that many Democrats are/were for freetrade Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #40

Democrats At The Time Were Against NAFTA As It Was Negotiated. Bush Admin Had Negotiated It. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #48

They were not all against it. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #68

Agree. I knew Trump was resonating with rust-belt voters just like Michael More did Quixote1818 Jan 2018 #41

Unfortunately, that's my understanding too... Upthevibe Jan 2018 #43

Flint Michigan was an economic disaster before NAFTA-Moore's delisen Jan 2018 #156

Economics had nothing obnoxiousdrunk Jan 2018 #47

Yeah, its not about pushing there agenda Codeine Jan 2018 #58

"Economics had nothing to do with Hillary's loss. Sorry not buying it ..." LenaBaby61 Jan 2018 #75

since no one ever checked the machines...we really don't know questionseverything Jan 2018 #152

Bill Clinton:such a powerful president he got union workers and delisen Jan 2018 #50

Like this I do. IADEMO2004 Jan 2018 #112

Yes Hekate Jan 2018 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author brush Jan 2018 #51

Oh please. It was misogyny. Codeine Jan 2018 #53

yes it was, but it was pushed over by Comey and the media still_one Jan 2018 #59

They certainly didnt help, did they? Codeine Jan 2018 #61

same here still_one Jan 2018 #63

True. And the OP proves that by treestar Jan 2018 #147

This sounds like it was copied from JPR. Automation/technology are responsible for most lost jobs. LonePirate Jan 2018 #54

Exactly. It sounds like JPR. The facts about Russian R B Garr Jan 2018 #64

Add the fact it is Clinton bashing on the day Trumpy and his co-conspirators in the GOP FSogol Jan 2018 #78

Exactly. Hoyt Jan 2018 #101

no, what sunk Hillary was Comey releasing the letter to the republicans in Congress 11 days before still_one Jan 2018 #55

Certainly The Russians & Comey Were Big Factors. It All Added Up. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #60

His mistake was to be for NAFTA. He should have said he was against it. BSdetect Jan 2018 #57

Anytime Labor Issues Come Up Regarding Trade I Hear Well Clinton Passed NAFTA. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #62

I recall it as a big disappointment when Clinton said "I support this NAFTA" The_Casual_Observer Jan 2018 #65

Our Trade Policy Has Been A Disaster & Kept Wages From Rising Like They Should. Here's Why. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #71

I think the Telecommunications Act of 1996 that he signed played a bigger role. Snotcicles Jan 2018 #86

One of many factors each of which could be held responsible for the situation we are in randr Jan 2018 #87

Oh bullshit. ismnotwasm Jan 2018 #99

Does that mean we are supposed to support trump for reneging on NAFTA and TPP? Hoyt Jan 2018 #103

Plus One DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2018 #111

Recommended, but I disagree. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #109

I agree with you on both comments Jarqui Jan 2018 #114

Except Hillary WON by 3 million more votes than Trump. It took the combined efforts of treason.... Hekate Jan 2018 #119

Well She Probably Actually Won Those Stolen States. The Vote Was Close Enough To Steal It. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #120

In the face of all the evidence to teh contrary, you believe that Hekate Jan 2018 #122

Hillary won the popular vote. Putin and Comey sank her. nt Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #127

Clinton/Gore were pro-business/tech Dems radius777 Jan 2018 #128

Trump needed simple talking points and NAFTA was perfect for that Awsi Dooger Jan 2018 #134

I despise a populist Democratic Party as much as a republican one. GulfCoast66 Jan 2018 #136

I agree with a lot of that. Trading among ourselves will get us nowhere. Hoyt Jan 2018 #142

People need to stop making excuses for White Bigots JI7 Jan 2018 #140

Congressional Republicans supported NAFTA oberliner Jan 2018 #145

25+ Years of Propaganda Bettie Jan 2018 #154

Certainly Correct On That One. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #159

but it wasn't the younger voters she had a problem with , it was mostly older white men JI7 Jan 2018 #162

I can not even begin to tell you how many Bettie Jan 2018 #164