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(884 posts)
46. Adrahil and Iggo are both correct
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 05:41 PM
Feb 2018

Congress did pass a law labeling them, and because of how poor a job they did defining assault weapons, it was much easier than it needed to have been for the NRA to get otherwise sensible and responsible gun owners to agree that the law was overreaching. That bad job of defining what they were attempting to regulate is part of why we are where we are.



This pic illustrates what I'm talking about quite well. Those are both the same rifle, both with 10 round magazines. They're also one of the least powerful calibers available, good for target practice and pest control, and not much else. But the one on the bottom, as defined by Congress, is an assault weapon, because of that hole in the stock for your thumb to rest in. And just to be clear, I do mean exactly the same rifle. Remove a couple screws and replace one piece of wood with a different piece of wood, and it becomes an assault rifle. That really is how the language of the AWB works. It's also why they could change the shape of the grip on an actual AR-15 and make it not be classified as an assault rifle, despite still being the same weapon.

Now, I suspect that neither of these rifles are what you mean when you talk about military assault rifles, but that just further illustrates the importance of defining "assault rifles" well, which thus far Congress has failed to do. And that's at least some part of why the attempt to revive the AWB in the wake of Sandy Hook failed.

But one thing it is very important to understand is that banning weapons on the basis of appearance or design, which is what the language of the AWB did, is never going to be as effective as banning specific capabilities. And that is where Adrahil's suggestion comes into play. Ban all magazines holding more than 10 rounds, and it suddenly becomes a great deal less important what the weapon looks like, because you've changed what it can do.

Hell, I could even go for fixed mags for civilian weapons. My paper and steel targets aren't shooting back, and I'm reloading my one magazine every ten shots anyway. I don't particularly care whether it comes out of the gun or not. But trying to ban features like thumb holes that have zero impact on capability only creates unnecessary resistance to getting something actually effective done.

Only certain police officers should have them and never as personal weapons. nt Blue_true Feb 2018 #1
All that would accomplish would be the manufacturers changing the name. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #2
No, that would hurt sales. It would kill the gun nuts' woody. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #7
And sometimes not even that. Pope George Ringo II Feb 2018 #8
Modern sporting rifle has been the industry term for many years jmowreader Feb 2018 #21
Not to worry. Pope George Ringo II Feb 2018 #29
once upon a time Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2018 #34
True story jmowreader Feb 2018 #37
Well, calling it a Sporting Rifle makes the microdick gun nuts think they're athletes. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #25
You've got some weird legislative priorities. Pope George Ringo II Feb 2018 #28
It's weird for you to claim that is my "legislative priority." SunSeeker Feb 2018 #30
Who's defending? Pope George Ringo II Feb 2018 #31
LOL. Your post is so ironic. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #33
That infringes on my god given rights to play army man ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #3
And many gun people fit that description but some dont. The ones who dont need Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #6
I admit, I have shot at diet coke cans ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #9
Too bad Im not the judge in his brandishing trial jmowreader Feb 2018 #27
If you thumb through the off road magazines, you will find companies that make these mounts ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #44
Congress must past laws that label them. shockey80 Feb 2018 #4
Good luck with that.... Adrahil Feb 2018 #12
Adrahil and Iggo are both correct better Feb 2018 #46
You just gave the terminology-sidestepper-gunfuckers a boner. Iggo Feb 2018 #5
That's...not how it works. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #10
,,,,, Kingofalldems Feb 2018 #11
+100. And those, and similar, rifles can be used for intimidation, not just killing sprees. Hoyt Feb 2018 #13
Gun hicks on the march. Kingofalldems Feb 2018 #16
LMAO. That one made me spit my coffee. Hoyt Feb 2018 #19
Looks more like a waddle to me. Pope George Ringo II Feb 2018 #24
+1000 dchill Feb 2018 #76
So, 400+- dead a year from rifles terrible but 9,000 dead from pistols, meh? EX500rider Feb 2018 #14
Hooray! The score-keepers have arrived! Iggo Feb 2018 #15
Trying to ban rifles won't budge the much larger number if anyone actually cares. EX500rider Feb 2018 #17
Those people are dead. They're not coming back. Absolutely nothing will change that number downward. Iggo Feb 2018 #22
Gotta ya, you don't care, somehow 300 is worse then 9,000. EX500rider Feb 2018 #26
Figuring out what does the most damage is more common sense then "keeping score" EX500rider Feb 2018 #51
A larger number of people were murdered with knives or other cutting instruments than with rifles... Marengo Feb 2018 #59
Do you care about the number or the means? Baconator Feb 2018 #67
Are you saying not to ban assault rifles at all edhopper Feb 2018 #18
Sure looks like it from here. Kingofalldems Feb 2018 #20
I am saying if you actually care about how may people die then pistols do all the killing. EX500rider Feb 2018 #23
Nice NRA talking point you got there. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #32
Saying "NRA talking point(s)" is no different than saying "Fake news" friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #40
The whataboutism of the talking point is designed to end discussion re ARs. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #42
Well, *do* you want to band handguns as well? If not, banning rifles is mere security theater if... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #45
Man, you guys are persistant, I'll grant you that. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #47
Persistence works. Gun control activists tend to get distracted after a while... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #48
Yes, we have a life and are not obsessed with any one thing. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #49
"(T)here are a lot more of us than there are of them" *They* vote like clockwork, and... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #72
So it's a NRA talking point that pistols do 97% of the killing or just the truth? EX500rider Feb 2018 #50
You're deflecting from ARs. I won't play that game. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #55
Because the laser focus on a particular model of semi-auto rifles is stupid. EX500rider Feb 2018 #58
Bingo. Straw Man Feb 2018 #62
It's a start. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #65
Yes, getting rid of one model of rifles out of hundreds ought to do wonders... EX500rider Feb 2018 #70
Your concern is duly noted. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #71
accidents equal murder? Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2018 #36
I am saying all deaths are tragic and you are just as dead regardless of means. EX500rider Feb 2018 #53
statistics disagree with you Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2018 #54
Which country outlawed semi-auto rifles of a certain type and not pistols and moved their rate? EX500rider Feb 2018 #63
You forgot a couple paragraphs from the article cited at that link. By accident, I'm sure: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #73
no, didn't forget Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2018 #75
That is straight edhopper Feb 2018 #39
That's why the gun-fucks are so feverishly trying to get us to stop Aristus Feb 2018 #35
If it's not a complete ban, you're going to have to get technical at some point Pope George Ringo II Feb 2018 #38
That is not all. sarah FAILIN Feb 2018 #41
We need to do both. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #43
Gunsplainers come here to South Florida HopeAgain Feb 2018 #52
So that lets out the AR-50? brooklynite Feb 2018 #56
The gun industry wants people to call them "Modern Sporting Rifles" Kaleva Feb 2018 #57
Would that include the United States Magazine Rifle, Caliber .30? Marengo Feb 2018 #60
If it can kill a lot of people quickly, then the answer is yes HopeAgain Feb 2018 #64
Define a lot. The rifle I mentioned in commonly referred to as the Krag, models of 1892-99... Marengo Feb 2018 #68
I get it, it's so complicated HopeAgain Feb 2018 #69
If you want to ban something, details matter friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #74
Children matter HopeAgain Feb 2018 #77
so SICK of the gun humping apologist cowards Skittles Feb 2018 #61
+1 SunSeeker Feb 2018 #66
K&R stonecutter357 Feb 2018 #78
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