General Discussion

pnwmom

(108,959 posts) Mon Aug 13, 2018, 05:08 PM Aug 2018

I can't understand why the Nazi Party - the Nationalist Socialist party -- [View all]

and the Soviet Union -- the Soviet Socialist Republic -- haven't ruined the word "socialist" as a progressive brand forever.

The word "socialist" has so many meanings it is essentially meaningless -- but it has been connected with some great evils. We need to teach better history in schools. And we have to get smarter about branding.

It's not like "socialist" is the only word that could be used to describe a Nordic-style safety net. We just need to pick some word that isn't associated with Hitler or Stalin.

80 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

I can't understand why the Nazi Party - the Nationalist Socialist party -- [View all] pnwmom Aug 2018 OP

You might as well say that we can't use the word "patriotism" because it's been ruined forever DavidDvorkin Aug 2018 #1

Patriotism still has a meaning -- a loyalty to country. Socialism has no accepted meaning. pnwmom Aug 2018 #3

Robert Jensen's deconstruction of patriotism: Garrett78 Aug 2018 #8

I've seen the word "chair" deconstructed. Igel Aug 2018 #21

Read the piece. The concept falls apart no matter how you define it. Garrett78 Aug 2018 #24

+1 ck4829 Aug 2018 #52

As it is used by the right in this country, socialism is an epithet... Thomas Hurt Aug 2018 #2

Yeah, kinda like "Democratic" and "Republic"! ret5hd Aug 2018 #4

Don't forget Iraq's Republican Army world wide wally Aug 2018 #10

"Democratic" and "Republic" still have accepted meanings -- they are not meaningless terms pnwmom Aug 2018 #12

Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea... Wounded Bear Aug 2018 #13

The difference is simple. Igel Aug 2018 #22

My libertarian friend posed this very argument to me last week... Dennis Donovan Aug 2018 #5

Funny isn't it? melman Aug 2018 #17

"National Socialist German Workers Party" was a clever appropriation. lapucelle Aug 2018 #6

Precisely. Socialism was very popular in the thirties. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #16

I think the idea of socialism is what may have been popular. N/T lapucelle Aug 2018 #19

Yes. That's why Hitler appropriated the term. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #20

How about "doubleplusliberal?" n/t Harker Aug 2018 #7

"not like "socialist" is the only word that could be used to describe a Nordic-style safety net" Garrett78 Aug 2018 #9

I've been preaching this for a long time Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #44

Not to mention what nazi and communist did to the word party. Sneederbunk Aug 2018 #11

Just goes to show that extremism... Wounded Bear Aug 2018 #14

The party was originally a workers' party. displacedtexan Aug 2018 #15

Your "concern" is duly noted. (n/t) vi5 Aug 2018 #18

This right wing argument was crap 30 years ago. Voltaire2 Aug 2018 #23

The rightwing Nazis weren't making this argument. Why are some people pnwmom Aug 2018 #25

Why are you so terrified of the left wing of our party? Voltaire2 Aug 2018 #30

Maybe you're right Tiggeroshii Aug 2018 #26

Only right wing idiots connect the word socialism to Hitler or Stalin or USSR. aidbo Aug 2018 #27

I don't think that many connect socialism with Nazi Germany and communist Soviet Union. Kaleva Aug 2018 #28

Does 'socialism' include Medicare For All? leftstreet Aug 2018 #29

'The word "socialist" has so many meanings it is essentially meaningless' melman Aug 2018 #31

Well...uhhhmmm...uhhhhh... ret5hd Aug 2018 #33

"Nazis Are Not Socialists Nor Democrats Despite What Alt-Right Might Say" Older Than I Look Aug 2018 #32

I don't understand why capitalism SkyDancer Aug 2018 #34

Is there a party of Democratic Capitalists? I wasn't aware of one. pnwmom Aug 2018 #35

Well as a DSA member SkyDancer Aug 2018 #40

Then you are being honest. But I have talked to many who claim they are pnwmom Aug 2018 #69

Here is the problem SkyDancer Aug 2018 #72

DSA, of course, is not a party. David__77 Aug 2018 #71

You are correct SkyDancer Aug 2018 #73

You're right, it bills itself as "the largest socialist organization in the US." pnwmom Aug 2018 #75

I disagree with the premise of your question. David__77 Aug 2018 #79

"Socialism" is surviving a school shooting or just not acting like a sociopath - Today's RW ck4829 Aug 2018 #36

Why do we need to accept the definition held by the worst of America? No, thanks. pnwmom Aug 2018 #39

We need to start labeling republicans fascists scarytomcat Aug 2018 #64

It HAS and IS mostly viewed in a Negative Way JI7 Aug 2018 #37

It's a generational thing SkyDancer Aug 2018 #41

no they don't JI7 Aug 2018 #42

Yes they do SkyDancer Aug 2018 #46

that article claims they don't know what it means JI7 Aug 2018 #50

Again, millennials preder socialism SkyDancer Aug 2018 #56

it uses the same shit which says they don't know what socialism is JI7 Aug 2018 #65

Gallup & PEW says.. SkyDancer Aug 2018 #74

Most millennials cant actually define the socialism they claim to prefer Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #45

Where's you get that figure? SkyDancer Aug 2018 #47

Talking to a lot of them. Lee-Lee Aug 2018 #51

I haven't heard a millennial use the word socialist, ever. pwb Aug 2018 #49

The fact is SkyDancer Aug 2018 #54

I have some guesses about you too. pwb Aug 2018 #55

Why are you so scared of the left SkyDancer Aug 2018 #57

You hit the nail on the head. pwb Aug 2018 #61

Do you honestly realize what you're saying? SkyDancer Aug 2018 #62

I am not saying anything, I'm typing. pwb Aug 2018 #63

When you have no argument SkyDancer Aug 2018 #80

+1, "socialism" is pragmatic ck4829 Aug 2018 #58

I agree with you, but good luck arguing with this bunch Hekate Aug 2018 #38

If you have a particular word that you favor Harker Aug 2018 #43

They have ruined it. Thats why it doesn't help us to use it? pwb Aug 2018 #48

Thom Hartman had a great point recently... disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #53

not sure which way to go with this.... Locrian Aug 2018 #59

It means government owning the means of production treestar Aug 2018 #60

Socialist true believers co-opted "progressive" mathematic Aug 2018 #66

Maybe we should not argue over labels and instead argue facts. Pointing out the wealth of Americans jalan48 Aug 2018 #67

An updated number from this year. jalan48 Aug 2018 #68

I agree that the facts are most important. Unfortunately, DT has shown pnwmom Aug 2018 #78

"But Hitler was a socialist too." redgreenandblue Aug 2018 #70

The Nationalist Socialist Party was the official name of the Nazis. My point is that the word pnwmom Aug 2018 #77

Generally, people understand how/why the Nazis appropriated the label TubbersUK Aug 2018 #76