HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » The Presidency should be ... » Reply #81

Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #80)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 02:14 PM

81. Straw man?

So those who live further away from others tend to get more of a say about who the president is.

No. People from different states often have different needs and different priorities (and they are hardly limited to geography and population density). The existing system balances competing needs with what would otherwise be pure majoritarian rule. It is no less "of the people" for doing so.

Yes, it takes more into account than vote totals. But, since demos means 'people', taking things other than votes into account is a departure from proper democracy.

Sorry. That doesn't follow. I know it makes sense to you... but it isn't true. "Proper democracy" is not the same thing as "majority rules in all cases". Such a claim flies in the face of the simple fact that the people who wrote "we the people" followed it with the structure that you now claim violates the standard "the people" supposedly implies.

The requirement for a 2/3 vote to overcome a presidential veto is in no sense un-democratic. The very fact that the President has a veto (which he doesn't lose in the off-year election when the people change the congress) is not undemocratic. The 3/4 requirement for a constitutional amendment is not in any way undemocratic. Neither the 2/3 requirement for treaty ratification (nor the fact that only the Senate has a say), is undemocratic.

If someone proposed electing the governor by dividing the state up into zones with wildly differing populations, and weighting them so that some zones had 3 times as many electors per electoral college vote than others, would you think it an advance in democracy in the state?

Nope... and that's where you go off the rails. The counties/cities/towns etc were not ever sovereign governments that voluntarily ceded some of their sovereignty to the state as a whole. Note that this is precisely the basis of the ruling that created the "one man one vote" standard. Subdivisions within states are fundamentally differentnt than states within the nation as a whole.

An inadequate civics education may have left you with the misunderstanding that towns/counties/states were all just different subdivisions of the nation... but that isn't the case.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 87 replies Author Time Post
CreekDog Aug 2012 OP
customerserviceguy Aug 2012 #1
CreekDog Aug 2012 #3
RZM Aug 2012 #7
Warpy Aug 2012 #30
customerserviceguy Aug 2012 #32
Warpy Aug 2012 #57
Yeah Its Spin Aug 2012 #2
TheCowsCameHome Aug 2012 #4
The Magistrate Aug 2012 #5
CreekDog Aug 2012 #9
Johonny Aug 2012 #10
Lone_Star_Dem Aug 2012 #6
ManiacJoe Aug 2012 #8
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #11
RKP5637 Aug 2012 #20
white_wolf Aug 2012 #23
Tom Ripley Aug 2012 #68
VOX Aug 2012 #12
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #26
FBaggins Aug 2012 #13
RZM Aug 2012 #15
CreekDog Aug 2012 #16
RZM Aug 2012 #18
CreekDog Aug 2012 #21
X_Digger Aug 2012 #22
CreekDog Aug 2012 #24
X_Digger Aug 2012 #35
white_wolf Aug 2012 #25
X_Digger Aug 2012 #36
white_wolf Aug 2012 #44
X_Digger Aug 2012 #47
white_wolf Aug 2012 #52
X_Digger Aug 2012 #54
white_wolf Aug 2012 #62
X_Digger Aug 2012 #63
white_wolf Aug 2012 #64
X_Digger Aug 2012 #67
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #86
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #72
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #27
taught_me_patience Aug 2012 #38
CreekDog Aug 2012 #17
FBaggins Aug 2012 #31
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #43
FBaggins Aug 2012 #48
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #59
FBaggins Aug 2012 #65
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #70
muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #69
FBaggins Aug 2012 #77
muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #80
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Straw man?
FBaggins Aug 2012 #81
muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #82
FBaggins Aug 2012 #83
boxman15 Aug 2012 #14
Puregonzo1188 Aug 2012 #19
jberryhill Aug 2012 #28
NYC Liberal Aug 2012 #29
OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #33
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #45
Motown_Johnny Aug 2012 #34
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #46
Motown_Johnny Aug 2012 #76
davidpdx Aug 2012 #37
Nye Bevan Aug 2012 #39
Kaleva Aug 2012 #40
Bettie Aug 2012 #50
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #51
Zorra Aug 2012 #41
Nye Bevan Aug 2012 #42
white_wolf Aug 2012 #53
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #55
LanternWaste Aug 2012 #74
Bettie Aug 2012 #49
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #73
Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #56
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #60
MineralMan Aug 2012 #58
Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #61
backscatter712 Aug 2012 #66
LanternWaste Aug 2012 #71
Grave Grumbler Aug 2012 #75
FreeJoe Aug 2012 #78
Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2012 #79
haele Aug 2012 #84
JackRiddler Aug 2012 #87
Throd Aug 2012 #85
Please login to view edit histories.