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In reply to the discussion: The Things Wrong With Dems [View all]JHan
(10,173 posts)68. I agreed with her critiques of his plans..
saying how pragmatic and statesman like you are and how your opponent is impractical and can't get any of this done
because they were correct.
Then, right before the California primary-the most populous state, they declared Clinton the winner making it completely stupid to go out and cast a vote for the other guy and "being part of history" is you cast a vote for Clinton.
California is a semi-open primary and perhaps the most diverse state in the Union. Clinton consistently polled ahead of Sanders, yet the establishment felt some need to put in a fix......, in a state she was comfortably ahead. Yes, voting for Clinton was meaningful for many women. Yes it was historical. Obama's election was historical too???
Then, right before the California primary-the most populous state, they declared Clinton the winner making it completely stupid to go out and cast a vote for the other guy and "being part of history" is you cast a vote for Clinton.
"they declared" - Listen, California's election results aren't certified until 30 days after the election, to factor in provisional ballots and mail-ins but you know, mail-ins are establishment so this was rigged too apparently.
Once more, why would the "establishment" want to "fix" the vote in California through an early announcement of a win when Sanders was still way behind Clinton, where even a win in California would not have been enough to give him the edge? This criticism is surreal. He was still way behind her in pledged delegates.
But let's go down History lane. In 2008 Clinton won California too, earning 38 delegates more than Obama, and the final number of pledged delegates at the end of it all was 1766 for Obama and 1639 for Clinton. At no point was Sanders that competitive. And btw, Obama was not the "establishment" choice in 08 at first. In any case, as soon as Clinton realized she didn't have enough, she released her pledged delegates and introduced Obama at the convention, and they both put forth a united front. 2016 was a complete contrast to this with contested convention nonsense and Busters booing John Lewis of all people.
So yes, I have zero time for "establishment rigged the primaries" surrealism. That this remains a thing after a decisive trouncing is mind boggling.
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.. and somehow, some way , someone can justify making this horror the fault of Dems.
JHan
Sep 2018
#4
It's not fair. Democrats get all the criticism and even when you prove the accusation false,
betsuni
Sep 2018
#7
Susan Sarandon is an entitled airhead, not "white feminism in human form." Screw that for a critique
Hekate
Sep 2018
#97
If Sarandon was "white feminism in human form" that would be ironic since she refuses to
betsuni
Sep 2018
#106
Taking some random Tweet about a twit and using it to slur all white women goes way too far
Hekate
Sep 2018
#107
Dems don't take the media and their owners to task in a meaninful consolidated way. We have ceded
JCanete
Sep 2018
#16
My point about Lieberman is that mainstream democrats helped to saddle us with him. The democratic
JCanete
Sep 2018
#18
How many different ways do I have to recognize that Republicans are a problem. But Republicans
JCanete
Sep 2018
#50
Oddly enough I see that sabotage from the other side...constantly going after liberals and their
JCanete
Sep 2018
#53
The problem is what the Democrats have done is to continue to pretend that the republicans are
JCanete
Sep 2018
#122
Yeah....part of the argument is how do you make sure we get the vote. I have a feeling telling
JCanete
Sep 2018
#124
Yes, all corporate donors are bad, because they aren't contributing out of any kind of altruistic
JCanete
Sep 2018
#55
I'll just say its not a purity argument I'm making. Its one of strategy, and I think mainsteam
JCanete
Sep 2018
#59
um...you know that other organizations that support democrats do this right? The only reason
JCanete
Sep 2018
#54
I think that really depends on what kind of impact such a candidate could have...whether
JCanete
Sep 2018
#52
oh, so your version of good media is at least covering the facts on Trump? That's the lowest
JCanete
Sep 2018
#119
Goth you're a broken record and you need new material. No, I don't propose that Sanders use magic
JCanete
Sep 2018
#131
So democrats are supposed to stamp their feet and wait for a magical voter revolution?
Gothmog
Sep 2018
#134
That explanation falls flat. You were talking about electing 'real democrats', not about
JCanete
Sep 2018
#132
Any yet you complain that the press is not paying attention to sanders and his silly proposals
Gothmog
Sep 2018
#133
Most people are not ignoring his proposals. and the news walks a fine line. If it ignores for too
JCanete
Sep 2018
#136
Change has happened to superdelegates, and I remember a certain poster posting a few threads
JCanete
Sep 2018
#141
The quid pro quo for the superdelegate rule is that sanders cannot run without joining party
Gothmog
Sep 2018
#143
I disagree with you that it is bad to question reporting or motives. It is bad to do this in a
JCanete
Sep 2018
#140
Fair enough. And true, Fox and BBC are absolutely not the same. Fox isn't interested in maintaining
JCanete
Sep 2018
#144
You're invested in blaming "the establishment" for the results of 2016 primaries..
JHan
Sep 2018
#66
When the words "rigged" and "primary" are anywhere near each other in a conversation:
betsuni
Sep 2018
#117
"I'm going to declare victory. ... There is no point talking to you any further."
betsuni
Sep 2018
#114
Like the FACT that HIllary is or was one of the most liberal Senators of all time
Eliot Rosewater
Sep 2018
#113