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(2,572 posts)
124. I'm still proNAFTA
Sun Dec 30, 2018, 12:17 AM
Dec 2018

And did not buy into the argument that TPP was a bigger badder version of NAFTA. My focus was on the argument that low to no tariffs only benefit big business. FDR came into office with that belief initially. The Smoot-Hawley tariffs were in place when he came in, adding considerable strain to the international economic climate of the Great Depression. Europe led mostly by England had high tariffs for anybody not a part of their empire. Smoot-Hawley was supposed to even that out. It tended to stop trade losing jobs in industry and farming. Cordell Hull pushed lower tariffs from his lips to FDR's ear. Thus the RTA or Reciprocal Trade Act of 1934

&gt Wiki)-"President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed the Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act (RTAA) into law in 1934. RTAA gave the president power to negotiate bilateral, reciprocal trade agreements with other countries. This law enabled Roosevelt to liberalize American trade policy around the globe. It is widely credited with ushering in the era of liberal trade policy that persisted through the 20th century."

I've had to argue these points with Trumpers and Bernie fans

Be careful what you wish for. yortsed snacilbuper Dec 2018 #1
So much winning. Squinch Dec 2018 #2
K&R ismnotwasm Dec 2018 #3
Of course they are. President Obama was right.. Cha Dec 2018 #4
Correct Cha. sheshe2 Dec 2018 #7
Yes, Obama warned us. MBS Dec 2018 #8
Not just those farmers, but you and me and everyone else very soon.. pangaia Dec 2018 #18
I'm not. Drahthaardogs Dec 2018 #50
Trump Train... czarjak Dec 2018 #5
republicans have URGENT MESSAGE for America's farmers Achilleaze Dec 2018 #6
Another one of trump's stupid moves. By 2020 trump moves will have defeated himself... brush Dec 2018 #9
yes, there's only two choices: either Dumbo is phenomenally dangerously stupid and should be impeach CharleyDog Dec 2018 #23
I Think Both are Correct. OMGWTF Dec 2018 #32
Well,that last Bean order out of Wellstone ruled Dec 2018 #10
People certainly believed all the anti-TPP crap. betsuni Dec 2018 #11
Honestly, I was one of them. phylny Dec 2018 #38
That's for sure - I remember when just about every DU OP was against the TPP airplaneman Dec 2018 #53
I was among those who thought Cha Dec 2018 #57
Me too. betsuni Dec 2018 #65
If they called you crazy, they let you off. They called others worse. Blue_true Dec 2018 #79
Well it was on DU Cha Dec 2018 #81
Yes correct I too was torn between wanting to believe Obama airplaneman Dec 2018 #142
I remember finally doing some research and deciding the TPP looked like betsuni Dec 2018 #63
Amazing how that works. Blue_true Dec 2018 #80
I think it was a very bad agreement as it was written then, and do not support it now. Celerity Dec 2018 #137
It was one of the ugliest scams Cha Dec 2018 #55
There was virulent TPP hate right here on DU. Blue_true Dec 2018 #77
Never EVER DFW Dec 2018 #119
Russia paid good money for that (nt) Recursion Dec 2018 #131
WINNING! snort Dec 2018 #12
Remember lots of Democrats opposed to TPP, particularly Sanders' supporters. Hoyt Dec 2018 #13
certain provisions where potentially noxious concerning national environmental regs. paleotn Dec 2018 #17
Well, those opposed helped defeat Clinton. So where do those "provisions" put us now with trump? Hoyt Dec 2018 #19
Yup. Skidmore Dec 2018 #22
yes, this will hit us hard, and will never be recovered and could worsen if China wants it to: CharleyDog Dec 2018 #25
Reminds me of the ol' ideology horseshoe: George II Dec 2018 #31
Never recovered is the correct terminology. dhol82 Dec 2018 #43
Also remember that Hillary Clinton opposed it Jim Lane Dec 2018 #125
After saying as SoS it set the gold standard for trade agreements BeyondGeography Dec 2018 #126
There has been a lot of analysis... MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #130
... BeyondGeography Dec 2018 #132
Yeah, you go with that. MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #134
So what was her stand on TPP again? BeyondGeography Dec 2018 #135
Your question was how did we lose to Trump. MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #136
Yes indeed. MrsCoffee Dec 2018 #129
Are you saying that Hillary Clinton was led astray? Jim Lane Dec 2018 #141
and? Who are US farmers again generally? We should make trade deals...we just shouldn't make shitty JCanete Dec 2018 #138
The TPP didn't do that, being the same as every agreement we and other countries signed since 1959 Hoyt Dec 2018 #139
bought it. own it. paleotn Dec 2018 #14
They? Sure. But - What about you, me and every other American pangaia Dec 2018 #20
Yup. dhol82 Dec 2018 #44
Looks like Trump outsmarted himself yet again. PatrickforO Dec 2018 #15
I don't think he is acting stupidly, by mistake. pangaia Dec 2018 #21
Well, with the help of McConnell and the rest of the republican commissariat. dhol82 Dec 2018 #45
I guess you are right there.. pangaia Dec 2018 #90
They seem tired of winning. JDC Dec 2018 #16
The "stable genius" strikes again. SergeStorms Dec 2018 #24
US farmers support Trump. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #26
If you recall the original TPP was a corporate give-away Crazyleftie Dec 2018 #27
This is what I remember. Perhaps I was wrong? Or did it change? phylny Dec 2018 #39
No such thing.. that was Cha Dec 2018 #68
Or at least, that's the line we were handed. Adrahil Dec 2018 #98
I like how it was a diabolical secret and yet they know it's a corporate give-away. betsuni Dec 2018 #102
"American wheat and beef producers have been particularly vocal" AJT Dec 2018 #28
Didn't congress approve bailouts for the farmers? Iliyah Dec 2018 #29
yep, they got YUGE bailouts, They all have big, red tRumpster signs on their elmac Dec 2018 #36
Yeah, that was a twelve billion dollar windfall for them. dhol82 Dec 2018 #46
Follow The Money Me. Dec 2018 #30
I'm sure tRump will bail them out, if their good, party members. nt elmac Dec 2018 #33
TPP was an unfair, unscrupulous and destructive treaty Farmer-Rick Dec 2018 #34
TPP was just another big corporate welfare program, would have just hurt the working class. nt elmac Dec 2018 #37
Yeah, the WTO and UN dispute rules are so corrupt that almost every Hoyt Dec 2018 #52
TPP is not good overall TheFarseer Dec 2018 #35
No, the TPP is needed to counterbalance China's massive influence. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #42
Don't buy that argument TheFarseer Dec 2018 #58
That doesn't change the reality whether Cha Dec 2018 #60
It also doesn't change the fact TheFarseer Dec 2018 #66
Those who tried to Demonize TPP were Wrong. Cha Dec 2018 #69
Very obviously only your opinion TheFarseer Dec 2018 #76
Not "only mine". Cha Dec 2018 #78
+1 SunSeeker Dec 2018 #100
Mahalo, Cha Dec 2018 #114
+2 betsuni Dec 2018 #103
Mahalo, betsuni! Cha Dec 2018 #116
+3 ismnotwasm Dec 2018 #115
Mahalo, ismnotwasm! Cha Dec 2018 #117
Your understanding of the TPP is factually incorrect. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #93
You are dead wrong about the TPP. And since you brought up Vietnam... SunSeeker Dec 2018 #91
If it would have reigned in corporations TheFarseer Dec 2018 #101
The TPP would have helped US companies sell their products in Asia. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #104
No. I dont want the provision Electrical Arc Dec 2018 #82
Fine. Strike any provision that is unfair. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #88
Those provisions also let AFL-CIO sue countries that stop unionization efforts Recursion Dec 2018 #133
Do you prefer to be Shot or Hung Option. MarcA Dec 2018 #49
That's a silly analogy.. President Obama was Cha Dec 2018 #71
Wrong. Electrical Arc Dec 2018 #84
You're Wrong. Cha Dec 2018 #85
Saying something makes it true! betsuni Dec 2018 #86
Why, of course.. trump and others Cha Dec 2018 #120
The TPP would have benefited labor and the environment. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #95
And what about ISDR provision? Electrical Arc Dec 2018 #96
The solution was to negotiate a fairer provision, not abandon the whole process. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #99
The TPP would have been better than the nothing we have now. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #94
And just like with the Affordable Care Act, the Public Option was never offered. MarcA Dec 2018 #105
ACA passed Congress with a public option. betsuni Dec 2018 #109
Lieberman is why we don't have the public option, not Tester. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #110
+1 betsuni Dec 2018 #106
Yeah, can't imagine why any country would agree to WTO and UN dispute mechanisms Hoyt Dec 2018 #54
Not quite TheFarseer Dec 2018 #64
WTO rules require agreements like TPP to have acceptable dispute mechanisms. In any event, do you Hoyt Dec 2018 #70
Yeah, BS and his buzzwords. Cha Dec 2018 #72
The dispute mechanism went above and beyond TheFarseer Dec 2018 #87
Same dispute mechanism we and other countries have used since 1959. You didn't answer my question. Hoyt Dec 2018 #89
No TheFarseer Dec 2018 #97
I remember how much Trump bashed Hillary for supporting the goals of the TPP. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #40
But the farmers are going to win BIGLY in the end, according to Donald. keithbvadu2 Dec 2018 #41
Pity. Lessons learned, maybe. NurseJackie Dec 2018 #47
Those people who were at the DNC with "No TPP" LisaM Dec 2018 #48
The news just keeps getting better and better. ooky Dec 2018 #51
American wheat and beef producers have been particularly vocal. ananda Dec 2018 #56
Half this board was ready to haul out the guillotines Codeine Dec 2018 #59
More than half I'd say. I felt Cha Dec 2018 #61
Yes, I remember your bravery and admire you for it. SunSeeker Dec 2018 #111
Oh good.. a witness! Cha Dec 2018 #118
I was always pro-TPP tammywammy Dec 2018 #67
I get it. The opposition, particularly the Jackpine Radical folks, were brutal even if they had no Hoyt Dec 2018 #74
It really is amazing. We've gone from bashing Obama and perhaps costing Clinton the election, to Hoyt Dec 2018 #73
it was the cool thing to be JI7 Dec 2018 #107
The TPP was negotiated in secret by a coalition lutherj Dec 2018 #62
Big secret, we knew everything in it, not to mention it was like just about every other Hoyt Dec 2018 #75
You forgot the Illuminati, they were there too. betsuni Dec 2018 #83
You would know about that. -- Lori Wallach, the director of Global Trade Watch, made numerous lutherj Jan 2019 #144
True. But many including some on DU prefer personal attack distractions. n/t MarcA Dec 2018 #92
Trump is hurting AMERICAN farmers Gothmog Dec 2018 #108
Yes, and he's helping Putin and China. nt SunSeeker Dec 2018 #112
Absolutely! Cha Dec 2018 #123
Oh the Irony of reading all the pro-TPP posts and blaming trump for it. GulfCoast66 Dec 2018 #113
The TPP was happening with or without us, and Obama tried to seize the opportunity to make sure we.. Cha Dec 2018 #121
Perfect is the enemy of good... WePurrsevere Dec 2018 #128
Exactly, WePurrsevere! Cha Dec 2018 #143
"Sanders joined by Rust Belt Dems, praises trump for nixing TPP" Cha Dec 2018 #122
I'm still proNAFTA tirebiter Dec 2018 #124
Good luck. Both group of supporters seem to think we'll be better off trading among ourselves Hoyt Dec 2018 #140
the tpp redistributes wealth upward. Kurt V. Dec 2018 #127
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