General Discussion

athena

(4,187 posts)

112. I'm sorry BB, but I disagree with you on this one.

Wed Apr 3, 2019, 03:18 PM

Apr 2019

I am not talking about Biden but about the general phenomenon where DUers are now saying that it’s OK to hug or kiss women, pat them on the back or shoulder, touch their arm, rest a hand on their thigh, or give them a squeeze on the waist.

Men who are touchy and feely with women but not with men are sending a message that women are playthings and sex objects and don’t deserve the same level of respect as men. (Indeed, the women such men touch are invariably young and beautiful, which leads one to suspect that the behavior is not as non-sexual as is being claimed.)

If a man doing something to a man he’s not sexually involved with would be considered weird or inappropriate, it’s also inappropriate when the recipient is a woman. Women are not pieces of meat to be manhandled. Men should treat women with respect. Period. It should not be necessary for a woman to have to ask to be treated with respect.

Again, this has nothing to do with Biden. Biden is from a different era. I don’t want to live in that era. I want to live in, or at least work toward, a world in which women are equal to men and are treated with respect.

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#me too is not the #i uncomfortable movement [View all] boston bean Apr 2019 OP

The "uncomfortable movement" smells like a political hit job. Vinca Apr 2019 #1

+1 uponit7771 Apr 2019 #7

I agree... Zoonart Apr 2019 #8

Totally agree DownriverDem Apr 2019 #16

This whole thing is about to push me over to Biden from undecided. efhmc Apr 2019 #19

I'm there with you Funtatlaguy Apr 2019 #54

Look up the definition of Hyperbole. See: Used for effect. bitterross Apr 2019 #22

Check your spelling in a dictionary while there. LakeArenal Apr 2019 #43

Thanks. I did. bitterross Apr 2019 #45

There is an easy fix for that. sdfernando Apr 2019 #114

Thanks. That's a great idea. bitterross Apr 2019 #129

Childish Mollyann Apr 2019 #106

So notable that "uncomfortable" is the big charge. Hortensis Apr 2019 #110

+1, also demigoddess Apr 2019 #117

Exactly this. 100% ... nt BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #126

Indeed it does. The fellow to whom it is happening now (nameless cause this is GD) PatrickforO Apr 2019 #127

K&R stonecutter357 Apr 2019 #2

i agree...even my hubby who is the gentlest guy in the world is scared that he may... samnsara Apr 2019 #3

Members of #me too must speak up about what it means and what it does not mean. boston bean Apr 2019 #4

That has been tried by many people on DU. GemDigger Apr 2019 #83

All he has to do is ask. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #6

Yup. When in doubt ask, or use body language (like open arms inviting to a hug & person can move in) Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2019 #49

You would be wrong about how long ago uninvited hugs were acceptable. Ms. Toad Apr 2019 #118

I agree with your general theme, but we ... Whiskeytide Apr 2019 #128

It really doesn't change the vibe much. Ms. Toad Apr 2019 #134

That's true. And most can read those non- verbal... Whiskeytide Apr 2019 #141

Occasional misinterpretation, or inattention, isn't a problem Ms. Toad Apr 2019 #144

So it's a bad thing that men (of which I am one) actually think Cuthbert Allgood Apr 2019 #121

So a spontaneous hug to a heartbroken friend is out of the question? Vinca Apr 2019 #139

I think it's important that we talk about how women's experiences are routinely dismissed in favor WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #5

However, we also need to recognize that there are about 10% who don't want to talk about it - haele Apr 2019 #10

Your last paragraph! is spot on to this situation. nt Hekate Apr 2019 #100

Damn Well Said! Collimator Apr 2019 #115

Wrong distinction, imho. boston bean Apr 2019 #11

Agree. I still think anyone who is coming out now Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #46

If someone makes you uncomfortable.... MicaelS Apr 2019 #15

And therein lies the poitn, doesn't it. JayhawkSD Apr 2019 #20

Yes. MicaelS Apr 2019 #42

The problem is, women who do speak up in the moment are seen as party poopers, WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #23

But so what? Just pick someone else. Don't help Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #47

Pick someone else, as in pick another candidate? WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #57

Well, then you are helping trump win, imho. I get it, Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #60

At the risk of getting into specific primary discussions, I don't believe Biden is the only WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #88

You don't think he should be President Mossfern Apr 2019 #77

As I said in the post you're responding to, I didn't believe he should be president before WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #89

There's moderation to addressing someone who's too touchy and will get the message. I don't see uponit7771 Apr 2019 #63

An apology would certainly show he's gotten the message. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #90

... then someone will say that's not enough. "I get it..." sends the message uponit7771 Apr 2019 #107

There are more ways to responding to being uncomfortable than public shaming unless the person ... uponit7771 Apr 2019 #62

How easy would you find that... brooklynite Apr 2019 #65

I am sorry, I do not understand. MicaelS Apr 2019 #72

You are a local official running for State office... brooklynite Apr 2019 #79

That is a good question, and I do not a have a good answer. n/t MicaelS Apr 2019 #108

Thank you. Sparkly Apr 2019 #131

trump's in the White House, kavanaugh is on the SC DirtEdonE Apr 2019 #9

Recommended. H2O Man Apr 2019 #12

it's should be about a pattern of behavior. the reason these "little things" mopinko Apr 2019 #13

Some things deserve a swift and public rejection. boston bean Apr 2019 #14

Amen. (and I'm not even religious) Silver Gaia Apr 2019 #18

"I am sure Biden may look back and say, well I get what people are saying about their space and it WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #24

he is in a unique place to help sort this stuff out. mopinko Apr 2019 #32

If in doubt, don't IronLionZion Apr 2019 #17

No. "should be" and reality are not the same here. Silver Gaia Apr 2019 #21

"No one can 'be aware' of another person's feelings without being told what those feelings are." WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #27

Did Flores ask VP Biden? Cha Apr 2019 #136

If anything, the general conversation on DU has made me realize that I'm not imagining things when WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #25

It is unrealistic to think you will never experience the touch of another. boston bean Apr 2019 #28

Thanks for telling me my experiences, I guess? WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #30

Well, I certainly do make a distinction as to Trumps behavior vs Biden's behavior. boston bean Apr 2019 #35

"No one asks can I hug you in a moment of jubilation..." WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #39

In this specific case, there was NO claim of sexual harassment or assault. We cannot discuss as it boston bean Apr 2019 #50

Fair enough. Can we talk about it as an example of how women's feelings are discounted in favor WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #55

Broadly it would be an interesting discussion and one where we probably would have little boston bean Apr 2019 #61

. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #93

I think I have been clear. The latest is not me too. It is not sexual harassment or assault. boston bean Apr 2019 #96

Consent is the key issue here IronLionZion Apr 2019 #31

If anyone feels uncertain whether it would be OK to touch someone, IronLionZion Apr 2019 #33

Because the intention in this case makes all the difference. No woman is claiming Biden sexually boston bean Apr 2019 #37

We can agree to disagree IronLionZion Apr 2019 #38

Me too is about believing women and giving voice to women who have been sexually harassed assaulted boston bean Apr 2019 #80

It is not my job to figure out someone's comfort zone, doctorzuma Apr 2019 #41

That's not to say I don't look for "cues" from others to help guide what I do and say but... doctorzuma Apr 2019 #44

Why not ask before touching them. Ms. Toad Apr 2019 #119

I agree. Personal space should be respected. LibDemAlways Apr 2019 #48

Biden is a person who most likely NEVER feels uncertain (until now). I know people like that and ... uponit7771 Apr 2019 #66

It's up to the person being touched. IronLionZion Apr 2019 #75

Always fascinating when some people tell other people what they should find acceptable... brooklynite Apr 2019 #26

And what are you doing? Just being fascinated or you have an underlying demand as to how one boston bean Apr 2019 #29

+1 Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #51

Explanation of differentiation is not authoritarianism. BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2019 #36

👍🏾👏🏾 BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2019 #34

I can find two people ... rainin Apr 2019 #40

Just for the record.... Bayard Apr 2019 #52

Well said. n/t ms liberty Apr 2019 #123

Thank you for this post and I completely agree. This latest issue is about being uncomfortable c-rational Apr 2019 #53

Well, I guess I have to let my daughter know. doompatrol39 Apr 2019 #56

You can teach your daughter what you please and I think you give rather good advice. boston bean Apr 2019 #58

... to speak up if someone goes too far. It could've stopped there no? tia uponit7771 Apr 2019 #69

I am not willing to commit political suicide. MicaelS Apr 2019 #70

You realize that Biden is not our only candidate, right? doompatrol39 Apr 2019 #82

Sure, I understand that. MicaelS Apr 2019 #109

Thank you for this. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #59

Women are not taught to indicate when they are uncomfortable csziggy Apr 2019 #64

I do agree with this. boston bean Apr 2019 #71

Correct - not every touch is a bad touch csziggy Apr 2019 #81

Oh shit. Beto just conflated the two. Disappointing Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #67

I Agree With You Completely, RobinA Apr 2019 #68

Thank you for this, BB peggysue2 Apr 2019 #73

Got that right. The distinction must be made. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #74

I don't think you get to define shanny Apr 2019 #76

I am sure I have a pretty firm grasp on it. Thank you. boston bean Apr 2019 #78

You speak for moi aussi! Mme. Defarge Apr 2019 #84

I'm not sure any of us get to define the #metoo movement. MadDAsHell Apr 2019 #85

The movement is about sexual harassment and assault. Full stop. boston bean Apr 2019 #86

So you're defining what it is or isn't for the rest of the world? MadDAsHell Apr 2019 #87

No I am telling you what it is. I am not defining it. It is what it is. boston bean Apr 2019 #91

Ok. If the replies to your OP are indicative of the larger world... MadDAsHell Apr 2019 #94

It is about sexual violence. No matter what you are reading here. Those people are wrong. boston bean Apr 2019 #97

You then believe no large movement of shared sentiment may be defined? LanternWaste Apr 2019 #105

1st time I K&R'd you flotsam Apr 2019 #92

In some ways, this is more embarrassing for women at large than for Biden. Vinca Apr 2019 #95

+∞ LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #101

Thank you, boston bean. It was hard for me to decide to declare #metoo, and now I see how ... Hekate Apr 2019 #98

Agree totally wryter2000 Apr 2019 #99

What if he was kind of a jerk? Caliman73 Apr 2019 #122

Good question wryter2000 Apr 2019 #142

I agree with your points. Caliman73 Apr 2019 #146

Yes elleng Apr 2019 #102

I took the NYC subway to high school and college for more than 7 years, I can't tell you.... George II Apr 2019 #103

This is going to ruin it for the metoo movement. . . . nonstop, all day, he hugged me and I felt bad pdsimdars Apr 2019 #104

You right.. it's not Thank you for your post !!! Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #111

I'm sorry BB, but I disagree with you on this one. athena Apr 2019 #112

Hi Athena. I can respect what you wrote. boston bean Apr 2019 #113

Thank you for clarifying. I understand your concern. athena Apr 2019 #116

So it's okay if it's just patronizing Sparkly Apr 2019 #132

Yes hurple Apr 2019 #120

K&R. Agree completely.. highplainsdem Apr 2019 #124

Very well stated! Thanks!! nt LAS14 Apr 2019 #125

Incels mount their defense Tarc Apr 2019 #130

... Sparkly Apr 2019 #133

And being uncomfortable doesn't mean some action was "inappropriate." Beartracks Apr 2019 #135

Mahalo, bostonbean.. someone had Cha Apr 2019 #137

Touching someone without permission is 'simple assault'... look it up... every state has such a law NotHardly Apr 2019 #138

So Joe would be guilty of assault? IluvPitties Apr 2019 #140

so we launch a new movement to deem unwanted touching acceptable, especially for politicians bigtree Apr 2019 #143

yeah that's exactly what I said. boston bean Apr 2019 #145