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Caliman73

(11,767 posts)

146. I agree with your points.

Reply to wryter2000 (Reply #142)

Thu Apr 4, 2019, 03:55 PM

Apr 2019

The problem I have is that this woman is being maligned on the forum and people are saying that her feelings and experience do not matter.

I am not saying in any way, that Biden should be punished or not run, or anything. I do think that it is a moment where we can come to a better understanding of the many ways that women have to deal with their personal space and their bodies in ways that men rarely have to. I think that Biden can certainly come out of this situation without any damage to his reputation or chances at a 2020 run.

I just don't like seeing people dismissed out of hand because there is some rubric that has not been satisfied. If Tom Hanks were accused of being a harasser, I would have a difficult time accepting it based on decades of widespread understanding that he seems to be one of the most decent people in show business, but based on evidence, I would have to accept the situation if woman after woman came out and said he had done things to them.

We should resist a Ready, Fire!, Aim mentality from both perspectives.

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#me too is not the #i uncomfortable movement [View all] boston bean Apr 2019 OP

The "uncomfortable movement" smells like a political hit job. Vinca Apr 2019 #1

+1 uponit7771 Apr 2019 #7

I agree... Zoonart Apr 2019 #8

Totally agree DownriverDem Apr 2019 #16

This whole thing is about to push me over to Biden from undecided. efhmc Apr 2019 #19

I'm there with you Funtatlaguy Apr 2019 #54

Look up the definition of Hyperbole. See: Used for effect. bitterross Apr 2019 #22

Check your spelling in a dictionary while there. LakeArenal Apr 2019 #43

Thanks. I did. bitterross Apr 2019 #45

There is an easy fix for that. sdfernando Apr 2019 #114

Thanks. That's a great idea. bitterross Apr 2019 #129

Childish Mollyann Apr 2019 #106

So notable that "uncomfortable" is the big charge. Hortensis Apr 2019 #110

+1, also demigoddess Apr 2019 #117

Exactly this. 100% ... nt BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #126

Indeed it does. The fellow to whom it is happening now (nameless cause this is GD) PatrickforO Apr 2019 #127

K&R stonecutter357 Apr 2019 #2

i agree...even my hubby who is the gentlest guy in the world is scared that he may... samnsara Apr 2019 #3

Members of #me too must speak up about what it means and what it does not mean. boston bean Apr 2019 #4

That has been tried by many people on DU. GemDigger Apr 2019 #83

All he has to do is ask. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #6

Yup. When in doubt ask, or use body language (like open arms inviting to a hug & person can move in) Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2019 #49

You would be wrong about how long ago uninvited hugs were acceptable. Ms. Toad Apr 2019 #118

I agree with your general theme, but we ... Whiskeytide Apr 2019 #128

It really doesn't change the vibe much. Ms. Toad Apr 2019 #134

That's true. And most can read those non- verbal... Whiskeytide Apr 2019 #141

Occasional misinterpretation, or inattention, isn't a problem Ms. Toad Apr 2019 #144

So it's a bad thing that men (of which I am one) actually think Cuthbert Allgood Apr 2019 #121

So a spontaneous hug to a heartbroken friend is out of the question? Vinca Apr 2019 #139

I think it's important that we talk about how women's experiences are routinely dismissed in favor WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #5

However, we also need to recognize that there are about 10% who don't want to talk about it - haele Apr 2019 #10

Your last paragraph! is spot on to this situation. nt Hekate Apr 2019 #100

Damn Well Said! Collimator Apr 2019 #115

Wrong distinction, imho. boston bean Apr 2019 #11

Agree. I still think anyone who is coming out now Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #46

If someone makes you uncomfortable.... MicaelS Apr 2019 #15

And therein lies the poitn, doesn't it. JayhawkSD Apr 2019 #20

Yes. MicaelS Apr 2019 #42

The problem is, women who do speak up in the moment are seen as party poopers, WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #23

But so what? Just pick someone else. Don't help Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #47

Pick someone else, as in pick another candidate? WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #57

Well, then you are helping trump win, imho. I get it, Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #60

At the risk of getting into specific primary discussions, I don't believe Biden is the only WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #88

You don't think he should be President Mossfern Apr 2019 #77

As I said in the post you're responding to, I didn't believe he should be president before WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #89

There's moderation to addressing someone who's too touchy and will get the message. I don't see uponit7771 Apr 2019 #63

An apology would certainly show he's gotten the message. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #90

... then someone will say that's not enough. "I get it..." sends the message uponit7771 Apr 2019 #107

There are more ways to responding to being uncomfortable than public shaming unless the person ... uponit7771 Apr 2019 #62

How easy would you find that... brooklynite Apr 2019 #65

I am sorry, I do not understand. MicaelS Apr 2019 #72

You are a local official running for State office... brooklynite Apr 2019 #79

That is a good question, and I do not a have a good answer. n/t MicaelS Apr 2019 #108

Thank you. Sparkly Apr 2019 #131

trump's in the White House, kavanaugh is on the SC DirtEdonE Apr 2019 #9

Recommended. H2O Man Apr 2019 #12

it's should be about a pattern of behavior. the reason these "little things" mopinko Apr 2019 #13

Some things deserve a swift and public rejection. boston bean Apr 2019 #14

Amen. (and I'm not even religious) Silver Gaia Apr 2019 #18

"I am sure Biden may look back and say, well I get what people are saying about their space and it WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #24

he is in a unique place to help sort this stuff out. mopinko Apr 2019 #32

If in doubt, don't IronLionZion Apr 2019 #17

No. "should be" and reality are not the same here. Silver Gaia Apr 2019 #21

"No one can 'be aware' of another person's feelings without being told what those feelings are." WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #27

Did Flores ask VP Biden? Cha Apr 2019 #136

If anything, the general conversation on DU has made me realize that I'm not imagining things when WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #25

It is unrealistic to think you will never experience the touch of another. boston bean Apr 2019 #28

Thanks for telling me my experiences, I guess? WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #30

Well, I certainly do make a distinction as to Trumps behavior vs Biden's behavior. boston bean Apr 2019 #35

"No one asks can I hug you in a moment of jubilation..." WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #39

In this specific case, there was NO claim of sexual harassment or assault. We cannot discuss as it boston bean Apr 2019 #50

Fair enough. Can we talk about it as an example of how women's feelings are discounted in favor WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #55

Broadly it would be an interesting discussion and one where we probably would have little boston bean Apr 2019 #61

. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #93

I think I have been clear. The latest is not me too. It is not sexual harassment or assault. boston bean Apr 2019 #96

Consent is the key issue here IronLionZion Apr 2019 #31

If anyone feels uncertain whether it would be OK to touch someone, IronLionZion Apr 2019 #33

Because the intention in this case makes all the difference. No woman is claiming Biden sexually boston bean Apr 2019 #37

We can agree to disagree IronLionZion Apr 2019 #38

Me too is about believing women and giving voice to women who have been sexually harassed assaulted boston bean Apr 2019 #80

It is not my job to figure out someone's comfort zone, doctorzuma Apr 2019 #41

That's not to say I don't look for "cues" from others to help guide what I do and say but... doctorzuma Apr 2019 #44

Why not ask before touching them. Ms. Toad Apr 2019 #119

I agree. Personal space should be respected. LibDemAlways Apr 2019 #48

Biden is a person who most likely NEVER feels uncertain (until now). I know people like that and ... uponit7771 Apr 2019 #66

It's up to the person being touched. IronLionZion Apr 2019 #75

Always fascinating when some people tell other people what they should find acceptable... brooklynite Apr 2019 #26

And what are you doing? Just being fascinated or you have an underlying demand as to how one boston bean Apr 2019 #29

+1 Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #51

Explanation of differentiation is not authoritarianism. BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2019 #36

👍🏾👏🏾 BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2019 #34

I can find two people ... rainin Apr 2019 #40

Just for the record.... Bayard Apr 2019 #52

Well said. n/t ms liberty Apr 2019 #123

Thank you for this post and I completely agree. This latest issue is about being uncomfortable c-rational Apr 2019 #53

Well, I guess I have to let my daughter know. doompatrol39 Apr 2019 #56

You can teach your daughter what you please and I think you give rather good advice. boston bean Apr 2019 #58

... to speak up if someone goes too far. It could've stopped there no? tia uponit7771 Apr 2019 #69

I am not willing to commit political suicide. MicaelS Apr 2019 #70

You realize that Biden is not our only candidate, right? doompatrol39 Apr 2019 #82

Sure, I understand that. MicaelS Apr 2019 #109

Thank you for this. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #59

Women are not taught to indicate when they are uncomfortable csziggy Apr 2019 #64

I do agree with this. boston bean Apr 2019 #71

Correct - not every touch is a bad touch csziggy Apr 2019 #81

Oh shit. Beto just conflated the two. Disappointing Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2019 #67

I Agree With You Completely, RobinA Apr 2019 #68

Thank you for this, BB peggysue2 Apr 2019 #73

Got that right. The distinction must be made. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #74

I don't think you get to define shanny Apr 2019 #76

I am sure I have a pretty firm grasp on it. Thank you. boston bean Apr 2019 #78

You speak for moi aussi! Mme. Defarge Apr 2019 #84

I'm not sure any of us get to define the #metoo movement. MadDAsHell Apr 2019 #85

The movement is about sexual harassment and assault. Full stop. boston bean Apr 2019 #86

So you're defining what it is or isn't for the rest of the world? MadDAsHell Apr 2019 #87

No I am telling you what it is. I am not defining it. It is what it is. boston bean Apr 2019 #91

Ok. If the replies to your OP are indicative of the larger world... MadDAsHell Apr 2019 #94

It is about sexual violence. No matter what you are reading here. Those people are wrong. boston bean Apr 2019 #97

You then believe no large movement of shared sentiment may be defined? LanternWaste Apr 2019 #105

1st time I K&R'd you flotsam Apr 2019 #92

In some ways, this is more embarrassing for women at large than for Biden. Vinca Apr 2019 #95

+∞ LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #101

Thank you, boston bean. It was hard for me to decide to declare #metoo, and now I see how ... Hekate Apr 2019 #98

Agree totally wryter2000 Apr 2019 #99

What if he was kind of a jerk? Caliman73 Apr 2019 #122

Good question wryter2000 Apr 2019 #142

I agree with your points. Caliman73 Apr 2019 #146

Yes elleng Apr 2019 #102

I took the NYC subway to high school and college for more than 7 years, I can't tell you.... George II Apr 2019 #103

This is going to ruin it for the metoo movement. . . . nonstop, all day, he hugged me and I felt bad pdsimdars Apr 2019 #104

You right.. it's not Thank you for your post !!! Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #111

I'm sorry BB, but I disagree with you on this one. athena Apr 2019 #112

Hi Athena. I can respect what you wrote. boston bean Apr 2019 #113

Thank you for clarifying. I understand your concern. athena Apr 2019 #116

So it's okay if it's just patronizing Sparkly Apr 2019 #132

Yes hurple Apr 2019 #120

K&R. Agree completely.. highplainsdem Apr 2019 #124

Very well stated! Thanks!! nt LAS14 Apr 2019 #125

Incels mount their defense Tarc Apr 2019 #130

... Sparkly Apr 2019 #133

And being uncomfortable doesn't mean some action was "inappropriate." Beartracks Apr 2019 #135

Mahalo, bostonbean.. someone had Cha Apr 2019 #137

Touching someone without permission is 'simple assault'... look it up... every state has such a law NotHardly Apr 2019 #138

So Joe would be guilty of assault? IluvPitties Apr 2019 #140

so we launch a new movement to deem unwanted touching acceptable, especially for politicians bigtree Apr 2019 #143

yeah that's exactly what I said. boston bean Apr 2019 #145