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KPN

(15,585 posts)
60. Being smart is doing the first thing first and then the second and third things second and third.
Sun Apr 21, 2019, 12:54 PM
Apr 2019

Is anyone really pushing for a House vote on impeachment now without first holding further hearings to obtain further testimony under oath? Like:

1) Bob Mueller before the Intelligence, Judiciary and Oversight Committees minimally.
McGahn -- ditto.
Don Jr -- ditto.

2) Follow up with further hearings and testimony if necessary and appropriate.

3) When it's time, begin the formal process of impeachment by crafting articles of impeachment.

All of the above, including 3 if done visibly and openly for public awareness, will serve to gauge and build public support for impeachment.

Counting on 2020 while holding hearings with no intent to impeach is not smart or the right thing to do. All of Congress, and all Americans should know that this is a serious endeavor and not just politics.

Remember when republikkklans mercuryblues Apr 2019 #1
I agree and glad you stated this OKNancy Apr 2019 #2
I'm really glad you advocate deference to Speaker Pelosi here. better Apr 2019 #69
Is that what will happen? Sucha NastyWoman Apr 2019 #3
Stop the GOD DAMN bashing of my party please Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #51
Excuse me, but she didn't bash the party. She asked a valid and important question. better Apr 2019 #64
The comment was that if they don't impeach (a futile move) then Democrats are weak. George II Apr 2019 #125
I'll refer you to any of the couple dozen other posts I've made today on the subject for detail. better Apr 2019 #129
Exactly. And also, Nixon resigned well before the proceedings even got to the Senate. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #132
No George, the comment was expressing a concern that Dems will be perceived as weak by voters. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #134
Sorry, but we need to look in the mirror. qdouble Apr 2019 #122
It isn't YOUR party. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2019 #141
Stop the GOD DAMN bashing of my party please Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #52
You are not going to tell me what I am allowed to think Sucha NastyWoman Apr 2019 #70
I think you make a valid point lunatica Apr 2019 #104
Maybe they don't trust my low post count. I've been At DU since 2001 -almost the beginning Sucha NastyWoman Apr 2019 #118
Dude, I'm pissed too, you know this man ... mr_lebowski Apr 2019 #71
chillax G_j Apr 2019 #96
Stop the GOD DAMN drama Bradshaw3 Apr 2019 #102
tactically, democrats HAVE to pass articles of impeachment in the house BUT beachbum bob Apr 2019 #4
umm, let me give you a preview of the downside. boston bean Apr 2019 #6
I think we have moved past that, bb. We can at least lay out the indictment against him. CTyankee Apr 2019 #26
+1 Ponietz Apr 2019 #33
Hi CT. It is not just that the republicans will not go forward with a conviction. boston bean Apr 2019 #34
I think we have a real problem here with our system. CTyankee Apr 2019 #43
Voting him out is just as quick as an impeachment at this point. boston bean Apr 2019 #45
Yep. I thought so...let's just hope nobody get antsy... CTyankee Apr 2019 #46
Then let SDNY put his fucking ASS in prison Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #55
SDNY can't bring charges against Trump while president, per OLC policy. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #133
Exactly what I meant, AFTER he leaves unless somehow impeachment hearings get him Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #138
He will pardon himself of all federal charges before he leaves (or Pence will). SunSeeker Apr 2019 #140
"Voting him out is just as quick as an impeachment at this point." LenaBaby61 Apr 2019 #105
In terms of expediency, the two paths may indeed be about equal. better Apr 2019 #106
The impeachment process can get started and investigations commence... 2naSalit Apr 2019 #47
It could be more like OJ though treestar Apr 2019 #54
I'd encourage you to think more broadly. better Apr 2019 #77
THIS. BlueWI Apr 2019 #100
100% Buffalo Soldier Apr 2019 #121
They are masters of spin mcar Apr 2019 #79
tactically, they HAVE to hold investigations...NOT impeach (yet) Baltimike Apr 2019 #80
Exactly!! sarabelle Apr 2019 #119
I'll support impeachment now Stargazer09 Apr 2019 #5
yeah, yeah...it's just really depressing that it comes down to politics; nobody cares what's right anarch Apr 2019 #7
I see what you say and agree that it is a sad state of affairs. boston bean Apr 2019 #10
the public must be made to see the truth, however uncomfortable it might make them anarch Apr 2019 #21
If he wins in 2020 we are toast. We have to win. boston bean Apr 2019 #22
well, I keep thinking we should give the public the reality TV presidency they crave anarch Apr 2019 #23
We can do that w/o formally starting impeachment proceedings. boston bean Apr 2019 #24
+1000 We HAVE to win in 2020. That cannot be overstated. CaptainTruth Apr 2019 #73
There's actually more than one big picture. BlueWI Apr 2019 #112
Lack of impeachment allows them to crow, and crow, and crow, and portray Dems as weak. ny Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #58
Lack of conviction in Senate allows them to scream Dotard's innocence mcar Apr 2019 #82
We can just accept defeat before we begin, or we can SHAPE public opinion. lagomorph777 Apr 2019 #12
No one is accepting defeat. They are looking at realities. boston bean Apr 2019 #14
Actually, yes, we are accepting defeat if we decline to even hold impeachment proceedings. better Apr 2019 #111
It always comes down to politics because that's the reality peggysue2 Apr 2019 #62
One thing to consider, though... better Apr 2019 #81
Exactly. BlueWI Apr 2019 #101
And FAR more importantly with regard to our own base, we overlook what DEFLATES them. better Apr 2019 #103
Agreed. BlueWI Apr 2019 #110
There is that, better peggysue2 Apr 2019 #116
if anyone asked me, ginnyinWI Apr 2019 #8
You are making the common mistake of painting it as a binary choice. lagomorph777 Apr 2019 #9
Why do we need to announce a formal impeachment inquiry to do that? boston bean Apr 2019 #11
Thank you - that is exactly my point. lagomorph777 Apr 2019 #13
Very true. It is the absolute best of both worlds. boston bean Apr 2019 #18
This is where I am... OneGrassRoot Apr 2019 #25
Because impeachment proceedings gives us access to documents that are being withheld and redacted Fullduplexxx Apr 2019 #38
That is not the only way to get these documents as you see Nadler subpeona'd them already. boston bean Apr 2019 #39
They will ignore the subpoena and hope their scotus will protect them Fullduplexxx Apr 2019 #42
What makes you think the same can't happen with impeachment? boston bean Apr 2019 #44
They will not readily comply w/ subpoenas. Ever. n/t sprinkleeninow Apr 2019 #72
Because unlike a formal impeachment inquiry better Apr 2019 #88
I think you are missing a key point. We will get evidence we need such as the Grand Jury Nevermypresident Apr 2019 #89
This is fucking ridiculous manor321 Apr 2019 #15
Who is talking about giving them a veto or making them angry as a reason? boston bean Apr 2019 #17
A little history might shed light on the path forward. rgbecker Apr 2019 #16
I agree. It's hard to imagine, but I think that impeaching Trump at this time Arkansas Granny Apr 2019 #19
Yes, AG. We are always great with shooting ourselves in the foot with circular firing squads. boston bean Apr 2019 #20
Have hearings. Turbineguy Apr 2019 #27
I agree with the sequence, but don't agree that if we don't impeach boston bean Apr 2019 #28
You are still assuming, however, that we necessarily give them that chance. better Apr 2019 #90
I largely agree with you. But there's a correction that you should consider FBaggins Apr 2019 #29
That is a bit more reassuring. Thank you for the info! boston bean Apr 2019 #30
Presided over by John Roberts mcar Apr 2019 #83
Barr will never give the House Mueller's full documents until impeachment is announced Arazi Apr 2019 #31
If that turns out to be the case then I am completely on board with impeachment proceedings. boston bean Apr 2019 #32
Mitch McConnell has faith in his court packing. So do I dammit Arazi Apr 2019 #35
We have had many good rulings in our favor. boston bean Apr 2019 #36
Very glad to see your flexible thinking here. Seriously, thank you for remaining open-minded. better Apr 2019 #92
The point of impeaching him is to impeach him. If the congress doesnt remove him Fullduplexxx Apr 2019 #37
That will not be the message after months long trial publicized on TV. boston bean Apr 2019 #41
Yes hold the hearings first treestar Apr 2019 #40
And if the White House does not cooperate..? kentuck Apr 2019 #48
umm, what is your suggestion? You think they will with an impeachment proceeding? boston bean Apr 2019 #49
I suspect the White House will not cooperate... kentuck Apr 2019 #50
Yes. You are adding a possibility to the equation. boston bean Apr 2019 #56
Do they automatically get the documents under impeachment? mcar Apr 2019 #84
Good question! kentuck Apr 2019 #91
It could be an important part of the equation mcar Apr 2019 #99
True. kentuck Apr 2019 #117
I hope we hammer him and his cronies with investigation after investigation. Proceeding with... George II Apr 2019 #53
FFS we need to focus on what we will do it we elect a POTUS! Not fight impeachment for 18 months! NT USALiberal Apr 2019 #57
We can do both. nt SunSeeker Apr 2019 #59
The news will be about failed impeachment hearings. nt USALiberal Apr 2019 #61
The news will be about the damning testimony at House impeachment investigation hearings. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #66
They will have a trial for months in the middle of the election. boston bean Apr 2019 #75
We are not in the middle of an election. The election is in 18 months. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #86
SunSeeker is right. better Apr 2019 #93
And thousands of words about mcar Apr 2019 #85
Being smart is doing the first thing first and then the second and third things second and third. KPN Apr 2019 #60
Yes they are. They want formal impeachment proceedings to be declared and investigate. boston bean Apr 2019 #63
A formal impeachment investigation resolution grants authority to the judiciary committee. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #68
Right. Impeachment investigation, not KPN Apr 2019 #94
Of course. That is how the process works.nt SunSeeker Apr 2019 #98
Which makes the argument for hearings/ KPN Apr 2019 #113
No. Only a formal impeachment investigation gets us grand jury transcripts. SunSeeker Apr 2019 #131
Okay. I still wonder if it's more a matter of semantics. KPN Apr 2019 #97
When Bill Clinton won the vote in the Senate, were Dems able to shout "EXONERATION"? No SunSeeker Apr 2019 #65
Well said. honest.abe Apr 2019 #87
Agreed. I don't wamt to just take down Trump, I want to take down the whole GOP. CaptainTruth Apr 2019 #67
You're right in linking impeachment to sufficient public support. better Apr 2019 #95
First investigate as much as possible. Cold War Spook Apr 2019 #74
I'm with you. It's a free victory lap Codeine Apr 2019 #76
Agree completely mcar Apr 2019 #78
If we do little or nothing durablend Apr 2019 #109
Who is suggesting doing little or nothing? mcar Apr 2019 #124
Surprise artislife Apr 2019 #107
i say GO FOR IT!!!! Hell we all know they wont win but at least we havent rolled over.. samnsara Apr 2019 #108
I think not impeaching would be just as disastrous. If you can't stand ecstatic Apr 2019 #114
You are absolutely correct quickesst Apr 2019 #115
He could easily win the election without impeachment. qdouble Apr 2019 #123
Why pick a fight.... quickesst Apr 2019 #128
It doesn't matter how the Senate votes qdouble Apr 2019 #135
Exactly the opposite of what I said.... quickesst Apr 2019 #136
The thing is Trump will spin any and everything anyway. qdouble Apr 2019 #137
I think there may be.... quickesst Apr 2019 #139
He could win without impeachment Meowmee Apr 2019 #120
I completely agree with you. NYMinute Apr 2019 #126
TO NOT Impeach will set a very dangerous precedent.... JustFiveMoreMinutes Apr 2019 #127
I go back and forth... stillcool Apr 2019 #130
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