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In reply to the discussion: Social Democracy [View all]

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
9. Society Security is NOT the slightest bit socialist and to say so
Sat Feb 29, 2020, 08:34 PM
Feb 2020

is profoundly deluded or dishonest. Any more than roads and schools are socialism because they're government products.

The European states are CAPITALIST democracies that have socialized some government services. EXACTLY like the U.S., except that currently our ONLY large socialized program is the VA. (That began in the mid 1800s as an extension of military structure.) Anyone who claims they're socialist states is lying.

Socialism MEANS seizure of production for communal ownership. Without communal ownership it's not socialism. Sanders is a long-avowed democratic socialist with strong commitment to the socialist part. As for communism not being a strong form of socialism, tell that to the founders of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

What European nations are doing has a real name of its own: they are social democracies. When Sanders claims his democratic socialism is what European nations have and really the same as what we already have, he's lying.

Most Democrats would go for much of what Europe has, and if that was what Sanders actually intended, he could be honest about it. But it's not, and Sanders apparently feels he has a better chance by trying to sell a bait-and-switch.

That's understandable since he hasn't been able to even give his socialism away in the 50 years he's been trying. That's because socialism requires great sacrifice of individual freedoms. Also because all experiments at socialist states have failed dreadfully, destroyed prosperity, and caused great suffering.

Btw, I also strongly doubt Sanders' adherence to the democratic part, judging by his attempt to illicitly take the 2016 nomination away from the voters. And also by his current well-documented explanation that as president he will create citizen uprisings to threaten and force congress to do what the president wants. Sounds to me like a continuation of the Republicans' attacks on our three-branch balance of power in favor of an out-of-control imperial presidency, only with Sanders at the top instead of Trump.

And that Sanders believes that only in that way can he achieve his revolution should be most enlightening of all.

Social Democracy [View all] Progressive2020 Feb 2020 OP
European-Style Democracy Shermann Feb 2020 #1
There's a major difference between Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists, within Europe. OnDoutside Feb 2020 #4
Yes Progressive2020 Feb 2020 #6
Democratic Socialism is Bernie's little in-joke, it's Socialism, most likely of a Trotskyist nature. OnDoutside Feb 2020 #2
What basis do you have for saying that? mjvpi Feb 2020 #5
Because I am European, live in Europe and have grown up watching the evolution of hard line OnDoutside Feb 2020 #7
Yeah Progressive2020 Mar 2020 #19
In US terms, definitely he is a hard line socialist, as the GOP will paint from wall to wall. OnDoutside Mar 2020 #27
Thank you. mjvpi Feb 2020 #3
Reagan Revolution Progressive2020 Feb 2020 #8
My party in the guise of moving to the middle has helped the right take over. mjvpi Mar 2020 #15
I Agree Progressive2020 Mar 2020 #25
Society Security is NOT the slightest bit socialist and to say so Hortensis Feb 2020 #9
Definitions Progressive2020 Feb 2020 #10
Trump defines Democrats as a wacko unhinged mob. Hortensis Feb 2020 #11
I Disagree Progressive2020 Feb 2020 #13
Insistence on following a leader who lies Hortensis Mar 2020 #14
Definitions Again Progressive2020 Mar 2020 #17
Nonsense. Seriously. Some definitions are truth, some are lies Hortensis Mar 2020 #18
I Disagree Progressive2020 Mar 2020 #20
Trump and the massively corrupt Republicans disagree also. Hortensis Mar 2020 #21
It Is A False Equivalency Progressive2020 Mar 2020 #22
Well, aside from the others who swallow without checking Hortensis Mar 2020 #23
Maybe Progressive2020 Mar 2020 #26
Face it. It's Sanders' fault that he calls himself a democratic socialist instead... brush Feb 2020 #12
They took money out of my paycheck EndlessWire Mar 2020 #16
Social Democracy Progressive2020 Mar 2020 #24
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