. (Reply #143) - Democratic Underground

In the discussion thread: Squad Members Clap Back at Obama's 'Defund the Police' Clapback [View all]

Response to caber09 (Reply #141)

Thu Dec 3, 2020, 03:55 PM

WhiskeyGrinder (20,117 posts)

143. .

Make them accountable for their wrong doing, fire them if guilty...

Cops aren't usually charged, and when they are, few are found guilty.

Reform the relationship with the unions, there are ideas to do it,

What are they? Reform whose relationship with the unions?

noone says its easy, progress is never and will never be easy...may not be perfect but a point to begin with

What are the goals with these two suggestions?

and by the way you are on the wrong side of Obama, Lewis, Clyburn, Biden, Harris, etc opinions just for a frame of reference...along with a wide range of people from them, to Spanberger, to the NYC Council and NYS Senate

Don't I know it!

How are you fighting crime, enforcing laws and preventing chaos in your policeless world?

I mean, "fighting crime" is a pretty generous way of looking at it. As I've mentioned, the police don't have a great record with solving violent or property crimes. Are you experiencing chaos right now? If not, is it the police who are preventing it?

We know the vast majority of crime is a result of people's needs not being met, and in an abolitionist model, the community commits to meeting those needs before crime happens. People rarely act completely irrationally; there is some kind of self-interest behind it. When those interests are met, crime looks different.

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159 replies	Author	Time	Post
Squad Members Clap Back at Obama's 'Defund the Police' Clapback [View all]	George II	Dec 2020	OP
The Squad needs to take a lesson from Obama. Nt	mcar	Dec 2020	#1
And recognize that they are being destructive when they keep taking pot-shots	The Velveteen Ocelot	Dec 2020	#2
I think clap back has used its usefulness	jimfields33	Dec 2020	#20
I rarely see them attacking Republicans	mcar	Dec 2020	#52
I think that's what bothers me the most	PatSeg	Dec 2020	#57
+1	treestar	Dec 2020	#95
If you have to explain what "defund the police" means. . .	DinahMoeHum	Dec 2020	#3
Exactly	Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin	Dec 2020	#71
Yes indeed. People forget how Obama got his start - as a community organizer. From where I sit...	George II	Dec 2020	#102
Yep	PatSeg	Dec 2020	#54
Obama lost downticket badly during his years, and	radius777	Dec 2020	#91
Ms. Porter Grills Rs	ProfessorGAC	Dec 2020	#101
Yes, he learned from experience	PatSeg	Dec 2020	#106
Yes. Because Obama's two terms would have been SO much more successful	stopdiggin	Dec 2020	#113
Obama didn't lose "downticket". He won every one of his own races, both statewide & nationally.	Tarheel_Dem	Dec 2020	#138
The poster was talking about the "thumping"	wellst0nev0ter	Dec 2020	#147
Aw Jeez! I know "The Squad" has a fan club here, but like another failed presidential candidate,	Tarheel_Dem	Dec 2020	#158
"This is despite taking cues from Lieberman and the rest of the non-radicals."	betsuni	Dec 2020	#159
Urban districts like those represented by the Squad are why Biden won.	radius777	Dec 2020	#157
This.	cwydro	Dec 2020	#75
Why couldn't the slogan have been "Reform the Police"	exboyfil	Dec 2020	#4
"Reform the Police" has been failing for decades.	Jirel	Dec 2020	#14
Sorry Nope...	caber09	Dec 2020	#66
It depends on what your goal is.	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#70
Yes it does..	caber09	Dec 2020	#72
.	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#74
You continue to move forward, not cost us and help us move backward..	caber09	Dec 2020	#79
People like George Floyd cannot afford baby steps.	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#83
You want the police to be abolished? are you serious?	caber09	Dec 2020	#84
Yes.	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#85
The Republicans thank you for your help..chaos is not a winning strategy.	caber09	Dec 2020	#86
Yeah, it's not really an issue that lends itself well to electoral politics.	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#124
You are so full of it...you need a plumber...	caber09	Dec 2020	#130
We can develop all sorts of emergency responses that have nothing to do with the control-and-punish	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#131
Sorry you are full of it...	caber09	Dec 2020	#132
I mean, if a guy is attacking me, you're right -- in the moment, I'm worrying about my own	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#133
Well at least you admitted something..	caber09	Dec 2020	#134
"Well at least you admitted something.."	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#135
"Again, I'm unbothered. Activism work sometimes works hand-in-hand with electoral politics.."	caber09	Dec 2020	#136
Police kill people no matter who is mayor, governor or president, or which party has the majority	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#137
99% of them protect & serve, please get your head on straight...	caber09	Dec 2020	#139
"Of course we need to reform more and make them more accountable"	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#140
Make them accountable for their wrong doing, fire them if guilty...	caber09	Dec 2020	#141
.	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#143
You think you are living in a utopian universe that does not exist..	caber09	Dec 2020	#145
.	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#146
that's pretty crazy	stopdiggin	Dec 2020	#114
I'm not concerned about where I stand when it comes to electoral politics.	WhiskeyGrinder	Dec 2020	#125
Historically both parties have been complicit in systemic racism and policing issues.	radius777	Dec 2020	#96
"Reform" is popular because it is utterly meaningless	Bettie	Dec 2020	#103
You get it. The cops laugh at 'reform'.	radius777	Dec 2020	#107
I'm also GenX and have been hearing	Bettie	Dec 2020	#109
Where do you guys live? I would love to know the districts you are in and see how it matches..	caber09	Dec 2020	#112
So, no one where you live believe that	Bettie	Dec 2020	#116
Thats a ridiculous answer..	caber09	Dec 2020	#119
AGREED.	Basement Beat	Dec 2020	#73
Exactly. FTP is the slogan I would use. But seriously	radius777	Dec 2020	#93
They won't be helped by an ineffective slogan	treestar	Dec 2020	#97
Exactly, some people who should be on our side seem not to mind more Rs in office apparently	caber09	Dec 2020	#111
They won't be helped by an ineffective slogan	treestar	Dec 2020	#98
Because we've been "reforming the police" for decades	Mariana	Dec 2020	#16
Apparently, we're supposed to ignore that	Bettie	Dec 2020	#105
I 100% agree!! nt	USALiberal	Dec 2020	#63
From the article --	Klaralven	Dec 2020	#5
So who do they call when someone	exboyfil	Dec 2020	#6
They'll probably call someone who will show up six hours later,	deucemagnet	Dec 2020	#123
Will the police ever solve that crime?	wellst0nev0ter	Dec 2020	#148
I've seen at least one of "the squad" actually say this summer "abolish the police".....	George II	Dec 2020	#7
It was attributed to Omar in June	FBaggins	Dec 2020	#19
Yes, I believe that was what	PatSeg	Dec 2020	#58
If their goal is to actually abolish the police,	jrthin	Dec 2020	#9
There was a very sobering report on The Newshour last week (I think) about...	LAS14	Dec 2020	#10
Yeah, I agree. It is a knotty problem and both sides are right.	KPN	Dec 2020	#24
He wasn't criticizing the protests,	LAS14	Dec 2020	#43
We have different perspectives.	KPN	Dec 2020	#45
That is an interesting way to say 'maybe I was wrong about that."	SlogginThroughIt	Dec 2020	#69
It is awfully presumptive...	tonedevil	Dec 2020	#77
I didn't presume that.	SlogginThroughIt	Dec 2020	#87
Guess you were just saying. /nt	tonedevil	Dec 2020	#88
We have different perspectives on that. There are those who can extrapolate ...	KPN	Dec 2020	#89
It is not a slogan, but also not great communication.	Caliman73	Dec 2020	#53
They're right.	Jirel	Dec 2020	#8
That's why there's a problem with the slogan. It's that racists can successfully twist it and turn.	LAS14	Dec 2020	#11
Racists successfully can twist ANY phrase.	Jirel	Dec 2020	#18
Bingo. The Rs run around nakedly violating every	KPN	Dec 2020	#27
Some pack more of a punch when twisted. Defund the Police, while accurately...	LAS14	Dec 2020	#41
The phrasing is not the main problem	treestar	Dec 2020	#99
have to disagree	stopdiggin	Dec 2020	#115
I agree. I think I was thinking of the idea	treestar	Dec 2020	#128
Any problem isn't any slogan, it's what the slogan represents and how people interpret it...	George II	Dec 2020	#13
Ah, short memories.	Jirel	Dec 2020	#21
No its not...	caber09	Dec 2020	#68
And that is why seasoned politicians	PatSeg	Dec 2020	#59
LOL	BannonsLiver	Dec 2020	#17
No, it is just a really bad slogan	dansolo	Dec 2020	#39
The purpose of a slogan is to successfully market	Phoenix61	Dec 2020	#42
Hmmm. Sounds very similar to what I heard a few years ago on another topic	gratuitous	Dec 2020	#12
Sorry, I disagree - not even close.	George II	Dec 2020	#15
You're totally right	gratuitous	Dec 2020	#22
Reform the police has broad support on both sides of the aisle	AmericanCanuck	Dec 2020	#31
Oooh, if only we used the right word	gratuitous	Dec 2020	#51
Maybe seven votes out of 400K	exboyfil	Dec 2020	#65
No one is questioning that police reforms are	Phoenix61	Dec 2020	#47
Police reforms are toothless	wellst0nev0ter	Dec 2020	#149
And what exactly does "shape up" mean.	Phoenix61	Dec 2020	#150
Wow so complicated	wellst0nev0ter	Dec 2020	#151
Apparently too complicated for you to say what	Phoenix61	Dec 2020	#152
I know when something is not worth my time	wellst0nev0ter	Dec 2020	#154
Like I said, short of a bad slogan you don't	Phoenix61	Dec 2020	#155
Straw man	treestar	Dec 2020	#100
Those who are too comfortable with the status quo keep making the same mistakes.	Jirel	Dec 2020	#25
Baby step progress is not status quo.	AmericanCanuck	Dec 2020	#34
Stop with this BS...this is nonsense..	caber09	Dec 2020	#81
+1	betsuni	Dec 2020	#120
We literally lost this seat over Defund the Police.	Gothmog	Dec 2020	#35
Sort of OT	BannonsLiver	Dec 2020	#23
She is not volatile and incendiary enough?	AmericanCanuck	Dec 2020	#29
You may be right	BannonsLiver	Dec 2020	#36
If Katie could bottle up her passion and give it to every Democratic congressperson out there	mtnsnake	Dec 2020	#56
Porter is plenty inciendary, just she's a cherubic white woman,	radius777	Dec 2020	#129
Because She Remembers Who The Enemy Is?	ProfessorGAC	Dec 2020	#104
Yes, I appreciate the all business approach.	BannonsLiver	Dec 2020	#108
I Think I Would Take Political Advice from the Greatest Politician of Our Generation	Skraxx	Dec 2020	#26
This is akin to smaller animals in the jungle kvetching at a lion.	AmericanCanuck	Dec 2020	#28
I am starting to wonder if they are republicans in disguise?	GemDigger	Dec 2020	#30
They're not Republicans	BannonsLiver	Dec 2020	#40
I know they aren't. People are stupid and to them "defund the police" means get rid of the PD in	GemDigger	Dec 2020	#46
Yep	BannonsLiver	Dec 2020	#49
Obama Says 'Defund The Police' Alienates Voters, Drawing Sharp Rebuke From The Left	Gothmog	Dec 2020	#32
I remember in the 60s the slogan was "If you don't like the cops, call a hippie.".	marie999	Dec 2020	#33
"and if you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao ..."	stopdiggin	Dec 2020	#117
Obama is 100%	AlexSFCA	Dec 2020	#37
Ya know, if police are murdering Americans,	KPN	Dec 2020	#38
I see the "they oughta wanna" syndrome here.	LAS14	Dec 2020	#44
Worst slogan in modern politcal history.	tman	Dec 2020	#48
I lulz'd	KG	Dec 2020	#50
The Squad needs to learn not to be so pig headed. You shouldn't continue to defend a term	Vinca	Dec 2020	#55
How many people are actually in the 'squad'? Any new members?	Demsrule86	Dec 2020	#61
The problem is right here	peggysue2	Dec 2020	#60
That was the message that was picked up by the Minneapolis City Council. Someone introduced....	George II	Dec 2020	#82
Ya think?	peggysue2	Dec 2020	#90
Defund the police sounded like we wanted complete anarchy in the streets	Jamesyu	Dec 2020	#62
Obama is correct. Defund the police has "lose" all over it.	TheCowsCameHome	Dec 2020	#64
Obama is right	WA-03 Democrat	Dec 2020	#67
It is the worst slogan in modern political history	AnyFunctioningAdult	Dec 2020	#76
Amen, right on, 10000% Agreed...defund the PD is a great path to Republican majority rule, no thanks	caber09	Dec 2020	#80
Bleh	Dem2	Dec 2020	#78
I'm happy to see that progressives on the ground in Georgia seem to understand Obama's point.	LAS14	Dec 2020	#92
A few more paragraphs, it's a very good article. Both Warnock and Ossoff know what wins in GA:	George II	Dec 2020	#94
real adults, doing real politics! who knew? (nt)	stopdiggin	Dec 2020	#118
Why 'Defund The Police' Attacks Were So Potent Against Democrats	Gothmog	Dec 2020	#110
Unbelievable that we are arguing (the party is) over branding...	JCMach1	Dec 2020	#121
They seem really really attached to certain slogans. As if the slogan was more important than the	betsuni	Dec 2020	#122
"Clap back".. lol. President Obama is	Cha	Dec 2020	#126
Yep, and they're using that bullshit against Warnock and Ossoff in the GA run-offs.	GoCubsGo	Dec 2020	#142
Of course the maggots are using this	Cha	Dec 2020	#144
Everyone in this thread saying reform hasn't worked	BGBD	Dec 2020	#127
You are 100% correct! It has been working and will still be working, and reform will continue....	George II	Dec 2020	#156
Obama is right. I can't believe this is even a debate.	Blasphemer	Dec 2020	#153

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