Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

GaYellowDawg

(4,443 posts)
32. What you're saying is not quite accurate.
Sun May 2, 2021, 02:55 AM
May 2021

The new variants do NOT have "different spike proteins." They have amino acid substitutions in the spike protein. When mutations occur, they sometimes (not all the time) cause a change in the amino acid sequence during translation from mRNA into proteins. Sometimes, this will change the way that the protein folds, and therefore changes its shape. As the spike protein's shape determines its ability to bind to the ACE-2 receptor, any changes in that shape are much more likely to negatively affect its ability to bind. Therefore, there's a very limited number of mutations/variants of the spike protein that still allow the virus to be infectious.

The "narrowness," as you put it, of the vaccines is actually an extremely strong point in their favor. With an attenuated vaccine, such as the polio vaccine, the immune system won't recognize the entire virus. It will recognize portions of the virus, called epitopes. Each protein that makes up the viral capsule (the exterior) is potentially an epitope. This means that different individuals can develop immune responses to different proteins on different sections of the virus. In a virus with a slow mutation rate, that's not a problem. In a virus, such as influenza or coronavirus, which have higher mutation rates, strains will arise that will have differently shaped proteins in their capsules, which can then escape immune responses to older viral proteins with different shapes.

The COVID vaccines cause a type of immune cell called an antigen-presenting cell to manufacture copies of the spike protein and "show" them to helper T-cells, which begin a primary immune response resulting in a population of T-cells and B-cells specifically geared to react to the spike protein. In natural immunity, or with a vaccine with attenuated SARS-CoV-2, it may or may not be the spike protein that's the trigger for a subsequent immune response. If the immune response was directed against a protein that doesn't particularly need to retain its shape for viral infection and function, the individual in question would be very potentially vulnerable to a second infection. Because, as I mentioned before, the spike protein can't change shape much without losing its function, and because the spike protein is the only means for infection by SARS-CoV-2, a vaccine specific to the spike protein is a much more effective vaccine against COVID-19 than an attenuated virus vaccine would be.

The odds that a change in the protein will occur that both retain the ability to bind to the ACE-2 receptor and make such significant changes to the protein as to escape the secondary immune response in vaccinated individuals are so vanishingly small as to be just about impossible. In fact, there's no evidence to suggest that any known variant can cause anything other than a mild case of COVID-19, and that was entirely predictable.

Quotes about the Indian variants from Amesh Adaljia, assistant professor at Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health, and Dr. Jeffrey Klausner, MD, clinical professor of preventive medicine at U.S.C.'s Keck School of Medicine:

"What's important to remember is that anytime we see these variants, vaccines still are able to prevent what matters: serious disease hospitalization and death," says Adaljia. "The bottom line is that our vaccines induce not just antibodies but also T cell immunity. They are able to protect against the variants, even if they can get around the vaccine in terms of giving someone a mild infection. The solution to these variants is to vaccinate."

"You're going to keep seeing news about new variants because we are looking for new variants and sequencing new variants," says Dr. Klausner. "Be reassured that the current COVID-19 vaccines, particularly ones developed in the United States, still are highly effective against any variants."

The article with the quotes is here:

https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a36232744/what-is-triple-mutant-variant-coronavirus/

Also worth noting is that the CDC has not classified any COVID variant as a variant of high consequence:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/variant-surveillance/variant-info.html

I hear you. I think most vaccinated people are very eager to go out and be normal again LymphocyteLover May 2021 #1
Anyone more careful than me is too timid. marybourg May 2021 #2
WTF does that even mean. From a scientific standpoint. GulfCoast66 May 2021 #10
I got that "living in fear" crap now and then this past year. Mister Ed May 2021 #29
I Know Several People RobinA May 2021 #86
I feel you. I'm fully vaxxed and still mask and SD in crowds. The co-vidiot... brush May 2021 #3
Boosters will probably not be a necessity. GaYellowDawg May 2021 #41
I hit two weeks after my 2nd tomorrow and have no plans to engage in any indoor public activities CentralMass May 2021 #4
I just don't understand? Why not engage? GulfCoast66 May 2021 #15
Unless you are an immunologist or have some other particular qualifications CentralMass May 2021 #20
There's missing information in your link. GaYellowDawg May 2021 #42
I can appreciate your qualification but not your attitude CentralMass May 2021 #46
You are supporting my general point. GulfCoast66 May 2021 #69
I have no great desire to try out the efficacy of my Pfizer vaccine in the name of science or for CentralMass May 2021 #71
That's cool. But I am ready for the shutdown and mask mandates to be over. GulfCoast66 May 2021 #73
I'm with you. Hopefully by July, the mask mandate indoors will be history. beaglelover May 2021 #91
If you're going to claim to be taking a scientific stand, you need to stop the hyperbole muriel_volestrangler May 2021 #74
I was talking about injuries and deaths. Of the under 10,000 who got it GulfCoast66 May 2021 #75
Why so judgemental? If it's not harming you then Crunchy Frog May 2021 #25
WTF? I'm just trying to bring trust in science. GulfCoast66 May 2021 #27
You do know you can still get the virus, right? Treefrog May 2021 #30
COVID vaccines have a higher degree of protection than most vaccines GaYellowDawg May 2021 #40
No one can say right now that the protection extends to the variants womanofthehills May 2021 #60
That's a flat out lie. GaYellowDawg May 2021 #81
I Asked That Question RobinA May 2021 #88
???? India variant?? Thought first case in TN yesterday? Laura PourMeADrink May 2021 #5
Bypassed immune system? tritsofme May 2021 #6
It means that it can out smart our natural immunity and vaccines womanofthehills May 2021 #11
Some misconceptions here. GaYellowDawg May 2021 #37
I would like to read that. Because I think the whole subject Laura PourMeADrink May 2021 #47
Lots of scary headlines out there the past few days - I doubt immune escape equals a mild case womanofthehills May 2021 #50
Have you not been listening or reading? GaYellowDawg May 2021 #82
I'm not stoking fear, I'm dealing with reality womanofthehills May 2021 #87
Stoking fear is exactly what you're doing. GaYellowDawg May 2021 #93
In India, there are actually 7000 variants now womanofthehills May 2021 #63
Has any vaccinated person got it? GulfCoast66 May 2021 #8
Yes. TraceNC May 2021 #16
India is a cluster. GulfCoast66 May 2021 #17
Asked if vaccinated people are getting this strain of Covid. TraceNC May 2021 #18
But that's not the important question. GaYellowDawg May 2021 #28
It wasn't my question, it was the other poster's. TraceNC May 2021 #44
What we would "squabble" over GaYellowDawg May 2021 #83
Well stated. Treefrog May 2021 #31
The double Indian variant is already in the US womanofthehills May 2021 #19
I'm seeing the same behavior from friends and family. TraceNC May 2021 #21
What you're saying is not quite accurate. GaYellowDawg May 2021 #32
SARS-CoV-2 incidence and vaccine escape - The Lancet womanofthehills May 2021 #52
Nice link, but GaYellowDawg May 2021 #80
By definition GaYellowDawg May 2021 #38
Why don't insurance companies deny Covid coverage for those that refuse a vaccine? dem4decades May 2021 #7
That's probably coming soon. GulfCoast66 May 2021 #9
As if Florida had that problem with telling companies how to run their business. dem4decades May 2021 #12
Because with all the new variants, vaccine protection will be sub optimal until we have a booster womanofthehills May 2021 #22
Suboptimal GaYellowDawg May 2021 #33
Are insurance companies going to deny coverage to people that overeat? former9thward May 2021 #24
I think that's an excellent idea GaYellowDawg May 2021 #39
As another DU'er posted on another thread - womanofthehills May 2021 #64
Obesity is highly contagious? And if there was a free vaccine dem4decades May 2021 #72
You Are Definitely On Point-We Should Be the Party Seeking to Quickly Reach Herd Immunity Stallion May 2021 #13
All well and good - as long as variants that evade the immune system don't start spreading womanofthehills May 2021 #23
I think you have a misconception about "evade the immune system" GaYellowDawg May 2021 #34
I'm with you. Treefrog May 2021 #35
Pretty much the main reason I mask up now... Silent3 May 2021 #14
That's why I do it, too. GaYellowDawg May 2021 #36
I totally agree, the non vaccinated folk equate to someone Beachnutt May 2021 #26
Things are seeming a lot more normal here in KCMO. leftyladyfrommo May 2021 #43
Proof of vaccination should be required to enter inside spaces scarytomcat May 2021 #45
My husband and I had our 2nd Moderna shots 1 month ago. marie999 May 2021 #48
To achieve protection, 70% of the population needs to be vaxxed. apnu May 2021 #49
Not the new normal. Ace Rothstein May 2021 #55
No way in hell I or most Americans are wearing a mask forever. GulfCoast66 May 2021 #65
I am not wearing gd masks forever Calculating May 2021 #66
I agree with your post. Elessar Zappa May 2021 #51
I would like to see that if YOU got your second vaccination, then bluestarone May 2021 #53
My view exactly. But my concern is Democratic office holders will keep restrictions going GulfCoast66 May 2021 #76
I'm already there. Ace Rothstein May 2021 #54
How, exactly, do we "cut out" the anti-vaxxers? Treefrog May 2021 #56
I ignored the hell out of my Bible Thumper anti-vax neighbor... HipChick May 2021 #58
Well, yeah, easy if you have prior knowledge of the person. Treefrog May 2021 #59
Hope you feel better Treefrog...I'm am 2 weeks post 2nd jab HipChick May 2021 #61
Thanks! Yeah, I slept really well for the first 4 hours last night. Treefrog May 2021 #62
Once everyone is vaccinated that wants it GulfCoast66 May 2021 #68
Exactly.....x 100 Chakaconcarne May 2021 #92
I agree with you. llmart May 2021 #57
I don't hate wearing a mask. Iggo May 2021 #67
Me neither. Buckeye_Democrat May 2021 #70
Same here djm5971 May 2021 #77
Absolutely. Buckeye_Democrat May 2021 #78
Agreed djm5971 May 2021 #79
They Aren't Doing RobinA May 2021 #90
It doesn't bother me, unless it's really hot. Wingus Dingus May 2021 #85
I'm about there. I have less than a week to go for full immunity, and Wingus Dingus May 2021 #84
For me, it's one week away. That is when I'm 2 weeks out from my 2nd shot. beaglelover May 2021 #89
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»So when do we cut out the...»Reply #32