General Discussion

COL Mustard

(5,897 posts)

23. Officers Are Not Only Trained Not To Follow An Illegal Order

Wed Sep 15, 2021, 06:27 PM

Sep 2021

It's part of our oath (I have taken it many times, and each time its meaning grows dearer to me). The oath of enlistment includes the clause "obey the orders of the President and the officers appointed over me". The oath of office does not. I, as an officer (I am currently a retired officer and a serving civil servant), am obligated by my oath not to follow an illegal order. If I obey an illegal order I am at greater risk than if I do not. However, any order originating from the POTUS in his capacity as the CINC is inherently assumed to be legal (clearly that needs more study given TFG), so what Milley was doing is absolutely correct. If TFG had found out about Milley's phone calls to China, he'd have been canned on the spot, and we'd have lost a firewall against the attempted coup.

I am often of two minds of GEN Milley, (we're the same age) but in this case he did exactly right.

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General Milley [View all] gab13by13 Sep 2021 OP

I do not think Vindman is an asshole... Ohio Joe Sep 2021 #1

Vindman isn't an asshole, gab13by13 Sep 2021 #8

This is why millions of Biden voters didn't/haven't/won't go on camera Tikki Sep 2021 #27

Not an asshole but miles out of his lane. TomSlick Sep 2021 #36

I agree that Vindman is not an asshole, but his opinion about Milley is wrong and he should stay Escurumbele Sep 2021 #22

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2021 #2

Vinderman is technically correct, but officers are trained to adjust strategies. denbot Sep 2021 #3

Officers are trained not to follow an illegal order or to violate the constitution... hlthe2b Sep 2021 #5

One thing about Trump's seismic toxic legacy, Uncle Joe Sep 2021 #14

They anticipated the eventuality a despot would attain the presidency... Act_of_Reparation Sep 2021 #15

Precisely Uncle Joe Sep 2021 #16

Actually, now that I think of it, they kind of did. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2021 #37

Actually, I believe they thought it in the realm of possibilities as well, Uncle Joe Sep 2021 #38

Officers Are Not Only Trained Not To Follow An Illegal Order COL Mustard Sep 2021 #23

There was no illegal order given jimfields33 Sep 2021 #25

It is a general statement of the oath taken as the subthread is a generalized discussion as well. hlthe2b Sep 2021 #29

Got it. Thanks! jimfields33 Sep 2021 #30

Our Democracy???? He saved more than that, a Nuclear War would have killed millions and destroyed Escurumbele Sep 2021 #26

I agree. pwb Sep 2021 #4

the Country was in grave peril. Milley not only saved democracy, he saved literally millions of PortTack Sep 2021 #6

++ Tetrachloride Sep 2021 #7

I would defer to Malcolm Nance and Ted Lieu on this: Baked Potato Sep 2021 #9

Both Milley and Vindman swore to uphold the Constitution, not a lunatic president. Paladin Sep 2021 #10

I Think Vindman Should Be Remembered COL Mustard Sep 2021 #28

Vindman is wrong on this, but he will never be forgotten as long as real history is preserved. Escurumbele Sep 2021 #32

It doesn't have to be either or... Caliman73 Sep 2021 #34

Vindman is not an asshole. Tommy Carcetti Sep 2021 #11

If he had Rebl2 Sep 2021 #21

Vindman is a hero. Beastly Boy Sep 2021 #12

Just going to leave this here. FalloutShelter Sep 2021 #13

Sounds like Pantagruel Sep 2021 #17

Yup! FalloutShelter Sep 2021 #18

Yes, great quote. Nt Baked Potato Sep 2021 #19

Great Quote. Most applicable to this situation. Duppers Sep 2021 #20

Excellent...Thank you Escurumbele Sep 2021 #33

Sure. FalloutShelter Sep 2021 #35

I can't prove a negative, gab13by13 Sep 2021 #24

So do some maggats love him now? Catherine Vincent Sep 2021 #31