Tim Wise: Race-Talk is a Language White Folks Need to Learn

[WhiskeyGrinder]

39. Okay, I'll respond to all of it.

Last edited Fri Sep 24, 2021, 10:48 AM - Edit history (3)

Skipped right past the part about define the problem and look for solutions.

The OP defined the problem and solution: A lot of white people don't know how to talk about race; they often get hung up on "not THIS white person!!!!!" to prove how they're not like, you know, OTHER white people. The solution is to learn how to talk about race without having to prove that it's not about you.

AND
People DO NOT DO things based on the color of their skin. We learn these behaviors. That means there is hope. What we learn we can unlearn and learn to do new things that work better.

Part of the article is also about not pushing back on details and insisting that someone who is trying to educate you use the phrasing you prefer rather than trusting the writer.

All people do stupid stuff. White people are socialized to perpetuate systemic racism. But we aren't born racist.

Okay!

Just like black people have been stuffed into the margins of society by a rigged system without access to equal treatment under the law. But they are not born to behave as criminals.

This is landing pretty badly for me.

So if you say instead, this is a way that white people are affected by the system and have to resist the status quo to make racial justice a reality; that is defining the problem and looking for solutions.

And the OP is saying, one way we have to ensure we're able to do that is to be able to talk about race across races.

WHAT I SAID ABOUT LABELING is that even if it happens, it happens.

Okay, so are you mad about being labeled as white, or what?

White people get shot and pepper sprayed and hanged for standing up for black rights. The EXISTENCE of White Supremacy is NO REAL BENEFIT TO ANY ONE. It's existence is a horrific reality that needs to be eradicated.

White supremacy benefits white people. It's a horrific reality that needs to be eradicated and also benefits white people.

YES. I can be a less obvious target, because I am white until I open my mouth. BUT IS THAT ANY WAY TO LIVE?

What does this mean, that you're white until you open your mouth?

While it is true, I am not constantly living with whites behaving racist toward me, until I stand up for someone and I don't get stopped for DWB (Driving While Black) or shot for being black in the vicinity of a crime. I DON'T SUFFER from the effects of White Supremacy because I am white, but I do not have all these "benefits" of being white that some do.

In the aggregate, you get better health care, better loan terms, better consideration for jobs, a much larger benefit of the doubt regarding your perceived threat and also your likelihood to be targeted for violence when you're out in public. If you're a white woman, the existence of the police as we know it is constructed on protecting an ideal of white womanhood. Media, culture and society is built to affirm your existence. It comes with a price, of course. But all white people benefit from white supremacy.

YOU haven't LIVED my life, so you telling ME that I have benefited from "white supremacy" is a stretch. You don't know a thing about me, but you judge and THAT is what is wrong and has to change.

It's not a question of judging.

That's like a white person saying blacks benefit from abusing welfare. PURE BULL SHIT.

I have to say, your similes are...a little revealing.

WE DON'T HAVE TIME to argue with our allies like this.

WE NEED TO FIND WAYS TO BRIDGE OUR DIFFERENCES, NOT KEEP PUTTING POINTY verbal STICKS INTO EACH OTHER.

Which is also what this article is calling for. It's saying, "White people, many of you need to learn how to talk about race without getting defensive, taking the discussion personally, or telling Black people how to talk about race." And I feel like this response is getting kinda meta.

TELL ME what parts of White Supremacy benefits "all whites".

A good place to start is Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack, which is a list of privileges that can certainly be affected by class, gender and other conditions, but that the author picked because they were often most affected by race. Some of the most obvious are:

I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

It isn't like we all have shares in some stock that pays dividends.

Generational wealth is another example, as Black people are still way behind as a result of slavery. This of course does not mean that every white person has generational wealth. But white supremacy does mean that if a white person needs to deposit out of nowhere a large check in a bank, "inheritance" is a much more believable story from white people than Black people.

IT IS TRUE we did not suffer the effects of red lining or the same kind of discrimination in the workplace simply based on skin color. So I believe in and support the programs that seek to bring balance to those long standing issues.

Why not dismantle those systems entirely, rather than keeping them in place and trying to "balance" them?

What you do NOT understand is that White Supremacists have BETRAYED ALL WHITE PEOPLE as well as ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR. They have dragged US down by association and EVERYONE who participates in racism is more aligned with the REICH WING than those who refuse to participate in racist behaviors and work to see the world change for the better.

I don't really get what you're saying here. White supremacists built this nation. The founding fathers were white supremacists. So I guess yeah, the foundations they've laid have dragged the country down by preventing much of the population from leading full, enriched and enriching lives. And those foundations are hard for everyone to give up and dismantle. But it's not a "left/right" thing.

No one is perfect.

Don't I fuckin' know it.