Tim Wise: Race-Talk is a Language White Folks Need to Learn

[TigressDem]

48. Let me make it "less meta". Defeating racism by using racism causes unnecessary conflict.

Using "white" and "black" isn't actually solving the problem or even defining it because we as humans are MORE than our race and NEED to SEE that to get BEYOND racism.

IN THERAPY people will be told that having a Black and White viewpoint will prevent one's ability to see ANY of the grey or colors in between that represent actual solutions.


What I would PERSONALLY like to see is a "continuum of racist to non-racist behaviors". I suppose I will need to create it myself as it's so "different" a type of thinking that most people will not have any idea of what I mean.

WHAT DOES A PERFECTLY NON-RACIST PERSON LOOK LIKE and HOW DO WE SEE OURSELVES and RATE OUR PROGRESS if we DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP IS?

THAT WAY we could look to make continuous improvement toward the ideals that are being requested without being penalized for not knowing what we don't know.


You say that the Founding Fathers were "White Supremacists" but

(1) That wasn't even a definition at the time.
(2) What I can see is that they were a bunch of white folk looking for freedom from other white folk and they DID NOT AGREE on the issue of SLAVERY.
(3) There is documented history of the Founding Fathers making an effort to deal with their OPPOSING VIEWS on slavery ****
(4) They knew what they did would need to grow and they put in the means to make those changes by making it a LIVING DOCUMENT and putting "All men were created equal" and not putting actual "slavery" into the Constitution because THEN as NOW there were OPPOSING VIEWS, but not a full solution.

The Founding Fathers did not work tirelessly against slavery, but would not "validate it" in the Constitution. AND there have been multiple times it was argued and addressed legally even before the Civil War.

One source example:
**** https://www.npr.org/2011/07/06/137647715/weekly-standard-founding-fathers-opposed-slavery

That was why they did not mention the words "slave" or "slavery" in the Constitution, but referred only to "persons held to service."

(My take)
THAT WORDING HOLDS THE PEOPLE HAVING SLAVES AS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT THE SERVICE COULD BE ENDED.

In England around that time, people went to the "poor house" to work off debt, but were only "indentured servants" with an END TO SERVITUDE IN SIGHT. So there was probably a hope that slavery could be ended in such a way that the plantation owners wouldn't go bankrupt themselves and there could be a way out for people who had been dragged into another country with no means to make it on their own.

Possibly the transition of "share cropping" was the best idea they had at the time.




As a white person living "in the system" I have done all I can to research what is wrong with it and needs to be changed, but if I don't understand specifically what I am looking for it can be hard to find as the system doesn't WANT to be changed.

My parents were pretty forward thinking and I have been standing up to stupid white people since I was 5 or 6 that I can remember. They encouraged me to keep that attitude even when it got tough.


I have been raped as a child by both white and black, so it informs my world view that:

"THE BAD THINGS PEOPLE DO IS ON THEM, NOT THEIR RACE." Race isn't an excuse for bad behavior, but it doesn't cause them either.

On DU when I don't reveal my race and simply speak my truth, people accuse me of being black.

SO YEAH, I AM WHITE UNTIL I OPEN MY MOUTH.


As a white person who stands up for equality among whites and blacks, I get verbal slap downs from both sides.

I am simply looking for a way to be helpful without all the slapping.




And THANK YOU for actually giving me some actual answers. I am sorry it was such an effort.

I appreciate the referral to Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack and will pick it up as soon as I can.



INTERESTING thoughts about "DISMANTLING THE RACIST SYSTEMS"


Why move toward balance first? To find out what works and keep pushing that.

So we BUILD AN INDEPENDENT WORKING SYSTEM and TRANSITION to IT instead of DESTROYING THE ONLY SYSTEM WE HAVE and LIVING IN THE CHAOS --- WITH NO SUPPORT TO MAKE THE NEEDED CHANGES.


Like support black owned or women owned businesses brings them into the system as valid replacements without destroying everything else and promoting laws that make it illegal to discriminate gives people and businesses a chance to change versus just destroying the system indiscriminately so there is "payback" for 400 plus years of pain.



I GUESS MY BIGGEST QUESTION IS:


ARE WE PROMOTING EQUALITY FOR ALL or looking to "get back" at the current white population for everything that has gone before?


I AM ALL FOR EQUALITY FOR ALL and anyway I can help.


BUT IF I HAVE TO "understand" that "talking about 'white people' isn't supposed/intended to be offensive because it's the 'WAY' black people talk about racism......

I CAN BELIEVE there isn't the "intention" to be offensive.

BUT I won't call a black person a "Nigger" because I KNOW BETTER. IT'S OFFENSIVE.


TELLING ME that ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE ...... is offensive.



TELLING ME HOW white people benefit shows me a path out of the insanity.


THANKS AGAIN FOR MANY CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS.