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K&R PETRUS Nov 2012 #1
You may have read this article, but here is Einstein's take on socialism. white_wolf Nov 2012 #2
Brilliant. Thank you so much! n/t OneGrassRoot Nov 2012 #49
That was effing amazing. n/t Whovian Nov 2012 #161
What does that mean? David__77 Nov 2012 #3
And like we used to have--at least more than now. truebluegreen Nov 2012 #61
The Democrats are so Right, the GOP can only go Left leftstreet Nov 2012 #4
+1. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #31
Socialism crushes individual initiative - that is why. banned from Kos Nov 2012 #5
Yes, SS and Medicare recipients lack motivation leftstreet Nov 2012 #7
That is why Sweden is a place where there is no creativity nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #9
Sweden is not socialist. Private property is still respected there. banned from Kos Nov 2012 #15
No, it is a social democracy with a mixed economy nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #44
A social democracy is not "socialism". banned from Kos Nov 2012 #51
Who said it was? You did. nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #58
Heritage Definition Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #96
Thank you! "state-capitalism" - that's what has lots of people confused. nt patrice Nov 2012 #119
Sweden has a capitalist economic system, with some social programs. Just like the U.S. Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #16
You used the word "communes." Hissyspit Nov 2012 #20
Communism is a GOVERNMENT. Socialism is an economic system. Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #30
Ok, here is your assignment nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #39
Here is your assignment: look up the definition of socialism, then look up Denmark.... Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #43
Alas I know nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #45
Honeycombe8 Diclotican Nov 2012 #83
wait, you said sweden was capitalist...now i'm really confused... HiPointDem Nov 2012 #85
A co-op is no way in hell capitalist eridani Nov 2012 #66
"Getting paid according to how much time you put is no way in hell a "wage."...??? BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #122
They are to fairly allocate 100% of the income to those who work to generate it eridani Nov 2012 #154
some people's time is more valuable others. BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #164
Irrelevant. What is relevant is that 100% of the take goes to workers, and only workers eridani Nov 2012 #176
those that own the production equipment deserve a cut of the proceeds. BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #187
I don't think so. Why should anyone get to own anyone else's means of production? eridani Nov 2012 #190
to compare factory machinery to human slavery is just plain ludicrous. BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #193
They got the capital by taking surplus value from workers eridani Nov 2012 #194
how do you know how they got the capital...? BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #195
Then he owns his own means of production. Why should he own other people's? n/t eridani Nov 2012 #196
he may own his own means of production- but he needs labor to make it work... BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #198
Or he could invite other people to become co-owners eridani Nov 2012 #200
Exactly- by means of an IPO. If people want to be co-owners they can buy stock in the "company"... BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #201
Members of our species have been breathing for 100K years, minimum eridani Nov 2012 #202
civilization takes time. BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #203
If they got more of the money that they are responsible for generating, they'd have plenty eridani Nov 2012 #204
Communism is anarchy tama Nov 2012 #179
Thank you for a ray of reality here. banned from Kos Nov 2012 #22
Well, we'll go to our room without supper now Hissyspit Nov 2012 #90
It s a mixed economy with a very strong government sector nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #37
You really need to learn the definitions of economic and political terms, nadin. Sweden Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #47
They are a social democracy nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #48
Honeycomb8 Diclotican Nov 2012 #65
Wait, you do live there nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #69
nadinbrzezinski Diclotican Nov 2012 #73
Utter nonsense. Selling on ebay has exactly jackshit to do with capitalism eridani Nov 2012 #63
i think you're confused. yeah, sweden is capitalist. the rest... HiPointDem Nov 2012 #84
Free market capitalism is the core of the Swedish economy. hack89 Nov 2012 #91
Every time I read one of your post it becomes more and more clear why you were banned from Kos. white_wolf Nov 2012 #11
It is plainly obious. Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #97
Tell that to Volvo, Saab and Mercedes Benz. All companies that succeed in socialist countries Canuckistanian Nov 2012 #12
Germany is socialist? This is laughable. banned from Kos Nov 2012 #19
Yes, merkel is from a Conservative party nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #40
You just agreed with me. Germany is not socialist! banned from Kos Nov 2012 #46
I did? Where? By any standard definition, it is nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #70
Germany is most definitely a Social Democracy Canuckistanian Nov 2012 #57
Lol, again, you have no clue what Socialism is. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #81
Denmark has a capitalistic economic system, like Sweden. It has a liberal trading Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #23
It is a mixed economy nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #41
Honeycombe8 Diclotican Nov 2012 #78
denmark ain't a socialist country. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #87
Profits don't go to artists/inventors under capitalism PETRUS Nov 2012 #14
Artists who are the creators own the copyrights of their work. Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #25
Onliy sometimes. PETRUS Nov 2012 #29
Yes, if I write a song, I file for the copyright. Unless I sell it or give it away. Period. nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #34
okay... PETRUS Nov 2012 #36
If you write a song while you're working for X Inc. and your job involves songwriting in any way gollygee Nov 2012 #127
Only if you're not an independent artist, but EMPLOYED by the co. or your CONTRACT Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #175
What about the Michael J. and Paul M. dispute? YOHABLO Nov 2012 #77
Written like someone who has no motivation beyond acquisition. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #17
Wow, ignorant, stereotyped and absolutist. Hissyspit Nov 2012 #18
In what way? nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #26
yeah, there were no writers in communist countries & if there were, their books HiPointDem Nov 2012 #33
The very best books are written for profit? maddiemom Nov 2012 #72
sarcasm indicator broken? it's the other poster you should be talking to, not me. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #82
HiPointDem Diclotican Nov 2012 #178
saecasm detector needs adjustment HiPointDem Nov 2012 #183
Hey Diclotican Nov 2012 #185
I'd rather this country have socialism and everybody Jamaal510 Nov 2012 #53
Japan does not have single-payer Art_from_Ark Nov 2012 #192
So much bullshit, so little time. rug Nov 2012 #64
Probably to better effect than arguing with one who is blinded by Randian horseshit. nt patrice Nov 2012 #88
It depends on the person or persons tavalon Nov 2012 #68
You are confusing your terms. Socialism will not take away your sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #80
What is the point of doing anything that has no intrinsic motivation? That's what you're saying, patrice Nov 2012 #86
There are many reasons to write a book even IF "the profit is not yours" Ken Burch Nov 2012 #93
Capitalism crushes all individual initiative that is not based upon FEAR. nt patrice Nov 2012 #116
That is SUCH horse sh*t! BarackTheVote Nov 2012 #191
you have a very limited imagination indeed if you think profit quinnox Nov 2012 #197
They KNOW it's a viable alternative Canuckistanian Nov 2012 #6
'So they fight it with the most vehement propaganda, designed to misrepresent' marmar Nov 2012 #8
Yup nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #10
I saw that Canuckistanian Nov 2012 #13
As i've said countless times before... Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #35
Let's do it. Jack Sprat Nov 2012 #21
As I have said here many times.. sendero Nov 2012 #24
We have some social programs in the U.S. What you mean is that people will want Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #27
That is exactly what I mean... sendero Nov 2012 #59
We Already Have Socialism To An Extent... WillyT Nov 2012 #28
In other words we have a mixed mode economy. banned from Kos Nov 2012 #38
Yes... But... WillyT Nov 2012 #54
People have all different ideas in their heads about what socialism means, so limpyhobbler Nov 2012 #32
I'm always surprised by the resistance to move more left. Starry Messenger Nov 2012 #42
"I'm always surprised by the resistance to move more left". Jamaal510 Nov 2012 #56
The problem is that they're calling only the most extreme, radical form of Capitalism gollygee Nov 2012 #50
Harry Truman quote about Socialism redwhiteblue Nov 2012 #52
redwhiteblue Diclotican Nov 2012 #74
ONE PROBLEM JEFF9K Nov 2012 #55
America isnt an economic system sigmasix Nov 2012 #60
I'm in. Diyames Nov 2012 #62
If he won't listen to us, he would do well to emulate FDR and LBJ tavalon Nov 2012 #67
Looking over the thread, I'm seeing two different definitions of socialism eridani Nov 2012 #71
This War Horse Nov 2012 #95
Do you think government ownership is an essential trait of Socialism? without it, without government patrice Nov 2012 #110
Absolutely not. The anarchists of the 19th century opposing Marx-- eridani Nov 2012 #136
Thank you!! Trying to explain that down-thread & to refute the notion that profit for profit's sake patrice Nov 2012 #158
No. It's a very common definition, prob. THE most common, War Horse Nov 2012 #170
The search I just did didn't think that they are. & Prob is people can conceive of NO patrice Nov 2012 #171
I think you pretty much nailed it there War Horse Nov 2012 #173
It's frustrating because THAT's how things are now for the 1% & Socialist principles try to patrice Nov 2012 #174
According to the original definition, no. According to Harry Truman, yes. n/t eridani Nov 2012 #177
Quite true. Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #98
Harry Truman would definitely agree n/t eridani Nov 2012 #149
social economics and social politics often gets confused. NuttyFluffers Nov 2012 #165
One major issue to be overcome in these discussion is the conflation of politcal & economic theories Snarkoleptic Nov 2012 #75
K&R! hrmjustin Nov 2012 #76
On some things, I'll take a socialistic stance. For the most part, socialism is crap nt RomneyLies Nov 2012 #79
Would you care to be more precise about exactly how that is so? Or shall we just take your patrice Nov 2012 #89
Socialust roads, fire departments, and police are cool. Socialist farms and factories sucks. nt RomneyLies Nov 2012 #94
I'm honestly interested in why those things suck. Which ones are you referring to? China? patrice Nov 2012 #100
Socialism is government owning and administering the means of production RomneyLies Nov 2012 #101
So what you oppose is government ownership? Is Mondragon Socialism? patrice Nov 2012 #103
Nope, Mondragon is free enterprise. It's a cooperative, but the government does not own and... RomneyLies Nov 2012 #108
So Mondragon is Capitalism? patrice Nov 2012 #109
Yes. RomneyLies Nov 2012 #112
Wrong. Those who do the work DECIDE all of that. The profits are the workers' NOT a capitalist's. patrice Nov 2012 #113
The decision is private in a private corporation, ergo, it is capitalistic. nt RomneyLies Nov 2012 #141
Fail: There are MANY private entities that are not capitalistic. Private entities in which profit is patrice Nov 2012 #148
Profit is NEVER the sole goal in ANY corporation RomneyLies Nov 2012 #150
Any OPTIONAL secondary goals are served ONLY by profit. Look at our Capitalist history. How can patrice Nov 2012 #153
The profits are based upon SOCIAL principles & processes, not the idiosyncracies of Capitalism. patrice Nov 2012 #117
Just because they make a profit doesn't mean that they are Capitalists. nt patrice Nov 2012 #118
What Capitalists has "social welfare and Insurance" as the 2nd & 3rd objectives of FINANCE, link: patrice Nov 2012 #123
It is still capitalistic RomneyLies Nov 2012 #125
You mistake the natue of Capitalism. It's SOLE objective is profit. The purpose of profit at Mondrag patrice Nov 2012 #129
Well, if you redefine terms they can mean whatever you want RomneyLies Nov 2012 #132
And you don't get that that applies to you too? Who died & made you God? patrice Nov 2012 #134
I am not the one who is redefining any terms, YOU ARE. RomneyLies Nov 2012 #135
Me? Tell me that profit is not the SOLE motive of Capitalism. You are the one redefining here. patrice Nov 2012 #140
Profit does not enter into the definition, you are adding it to the equation RomneyLies Nov 2012 #143
Try to tear yourself away from other support and think. Tell me now, logically, that there'd be such patrice Nov 2012 #152
You reject that there'd be no such thing as Capitalism without profit for profit's sake alone? patrice Nov 2012 #138
I reject that it enters into the definition of capitalism RomneyLies Nov 2012 #144
Oh! hoh! That's rich! Perhaps you'd like to discuss the definition of "is". :-)))))) nt patrice Nov 2012 #159
Profit for profit's sake alone is clearly proven in the Capitalist financial history of the USA. nt patrice Nov 2012 #130
That is a redefinitiion of Capitalism. RomneyLies Nov 2012 #139
LOGIC: HOW can Capitalism even survive unless profit is it's SOLE motive? Please answer. patrice Nov 2012 #142
LOGIC: If profit is the SOLE motive, an enterprise WILL NOT SURVIVE. RomneyLies Nov 2012 #145
NONE of those other goals would be goals at all without profit. PROFIT first always, otherwise the patrice Nov 2012 #155
What kind of Capitalist allows WORKER-directed Research? patrice Nov 2012 #126
What kind of Capitalist allows WORKERS to manage & guide their own education & training? patrice Nov 2012 #128
Any can. RomneyLies Nov 2012 #133
YOU are limiting the entire, REAL LIFE, discussion to an entry in a dictionary. nt patrice Nov 2012 #160
Come on, own up, you're a "Libertarian" aren't you. nt patrice Nov 2012 #162
So what you oppose is government ownership, i.e. government as CAPITALISM. Me too. nt patrice Nov 2012 #114
Then by definition, you oppose Socialism. nt RomneyLies Nov 2012 #137
You are wrong - and - you are narrow-minded & refuse to at least recognize that FACT. patrice Nov 2012 #157
Anarchists are socialists and don't think the government should exist at all. white_wolf Nov 2012 #146
My definition of socialism is the ONLY defintion of socialism RomneyLies Nov 2012 #147
So we should just ignore all the anarchist writers and theorists because you say they don't count? white_wolf Nov 2012 #151
How can anyone who does not identify with a set of values define them? You may HYPOTHESIZE patrice Nov 2012 #156
For the most part, capitalism is crap. Hissyspit Nov 2012 #92
So, If I Am To Understand... WiffenPoof Nov 2012 #99
I really don't like it when Social Democrats are called "Socialists" War Horse Nov 2012 #102
Well, one thing they are doing is assuming that old saw about government owning the means of patrice Nov 2012 #105
Many European Social Democratic parties tama Nov 2012 #180
"Socialism" means different things to different people. gulliver Nov 2012 #104
True! and yet, there must be some essential trait in common that makes it all Socialism, otherwise patrice Nov 2012 #107
Rec. n/t Smarmie Doofus Nov 2012 #106
I Like John Lennon's Defintion Of Socialism DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #111
+++1! patrice Nov 2012 #115
credit for Obama's re-election is not "owed" to any one group or demographic over others. BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #120
"Am I my brother's keeper?" - Socialism says "yes". Capitalism says "Fuck you." Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2012 #121
Full-on socialism woulf be just as bad as full-on capitalism. BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #124
Agreed. Socialistic/workers'-profit-sharing for the necessities. Capitalism for everything else. patrice Nov 2012 #131
You asked everything else tama Nov 2012 #181
Just talking about the USA & what's doable, compared to 0 change. Perhaps I should point patrice Nov 2012 #182
I don't think tama Nov 2012 #184
Name one great country populated by anti-socialists. Old and In the Way Nov 2012 #163
Why Not Indeed colsohlibgal Nov 2012 #166
Right on! Health & cognitive benefits from reduced stress = more EFFICIENT economies at patrice Nov 2012 #172
Less GDP tama Nov 2012 #186
Could you explain that please? nt patrice Nov 2012 #188
Why TPTB tama Nov 2012 #189
Post removed Post removed Nov 2012 #167
Welcome to DU my friend! hrmjustin Nov 2012 #168
This message was self-deleted by its author uppityperson Nov 2012 #169
Democrats are not a socialist party, they are center-left davidn3600 Nov 2012 #199
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