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Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
20. People don't understand how painful their words can be.
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 06:16 PM
Jan 2012

When they say " She shouldn't have been [insert place]", "She shouldn't have been alone", "She shouldn't have invited him in", She shouldn't have been wearing that", "she shouldn't have kissed him" etc etc....

All the woman hear is " IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT YOU GOT RAPED"

It's that simple.

But if men stopped raping then women wouldn't get so many lectures and blame-the-victim anymore. Quantess Jan 2012 #1
Indeed. I'm all for teaching basic safety and awareness, which are good things for everyone to learn arcane1 Jan 2012 #2
How so? I see the OP as promoting a way to start addressing the cause -- Remember Me Jan 2012 #52
I was generalizing, not speaking specifically to the OP n/t arcane1 Jan 2012 #119
Yes. The subject line is simply misleading. Orsino Jan 2012 #163
Can we do both? Hugabear Jan 2012 #3
Yeah, when people don't even know what rape is, redqueen Jan 2012 #7
can you point me somewhere reputable and non-anectdotal where the existence of date-rape is... ret5hd Jan 2012 #28
Expounded as in explained? redqueen Jan 2012 #29
well, just point me towards your best source, the on most likely to make me say... ret5hd Jan 2012 #34
Perhaps you could start here ... etherealtruth Jan 2012 #35
1 & 2 are completely anecdotal...a crackpot ga rep and a govt justice employee do not constitute... ret5hd Jan 2012 #40
Susan Estrich is a respected law professor etherealtruth Jan 2012 #42
this article does not speak to denial of date rape, but to minimalizing the crime. ret5hd Jan 2012 #43
Excuse me ...? etherealtruth Jan 2012 #44
"real and prevalent" to you... redqueen Jan 2012 #36
oops, replied to #35 instead of you. please forgive. ret5hd Jan 2012 #41
Not that the FBI is particularly "reputable," but they didn't admit there was such a thing Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #168
I was almost raped in college, and didn't realize it Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2012 #61
That is very common. redqueen Jan 2012 #88
everything in our society directs, leads, conditions to this and we act like seabeyond Jan 2012 #92
That happened to me a few times laundry_queen Jan 2012 #120
It's so weird isn't it? For the longest time I felt that it was part of my role in life to Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2012 #136
I agree. There is always value to teaching people how to avoid being victimized. yellowcanine Jan 2012 #11
Unfortunately, the blame DOES get put on the women by these "guides" Scootaloo Jan 2012 #13
Agreed. We can approach the problem from more than one angle. nt. Hosnon Jan 2012 #170
A balance approach is requried ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2012 #4
Unfortunately people like the Dominique Strauss-Kahns of this world will never learn these lessons, Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #5
Is there a copy of the ad somewhere jberryhill Jan 2012 #6
This article has a picture. redqueen Jan 2012 #8
Oh, wow, that's worse than I thought jberryhill Jan 2012 #9
they sexualized the girl while addressing rape. ONE of the many examples fed to our seabeyond Jan 2012 #94
headline is not very pleasant quinnox Jan 2012 #10
I agree it shouldn't be tossed around lightly. redqueen Jan 2012 #14
yup quinnox Jan 2012 #16
How not to get raped Zalatix Jan 2012 #12
How not to get the point Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #23
Not to speak for the poster you're responding to, mythology Jan 2012 #31
Still missing the point... redqueen Jan 2012 #33
You might as well try to educate lions not to prey on gazelles or whatever. Zalatix Jan 2012 #54
In other words, you're saying that Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #59
No, I am saying that people who are deviant are deviant. Zalatix Jan 2012 #64
Nonsense Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #68
how about if we simple change our language for our younger boys. make sure girl is enthusiastic seabeyond Jan 2012 #89
And stop telling girls it's bad to be that way. redqueen Jan 2012 #93
exactly allow a girl ownership of her sexuality. which is exactly opposite what society does today seabeyond Jan 2012 #96
Enthusiasm shouldn't be confused with consenting. Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #98
i would say, when she says stop, there is no longer the enthusiasm. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #101
And that goes right back to the original point Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #118
i agree with all of it until the end seabeyond Jan 2012 #122
Thank you. Sera_Bellum Jan 2012 #114
the point is, and must be clear. because a girl says yes seabeyond Jan 2012 #115
that's pretty smart. nt arely staircase Jan 2012 #198
I guess you didn't read what I said. Anyone who fails to obey "no" Zalatix Jan 2012 #133
I did read what you wrote Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #159
How do you suppose to educate someone who excuses spousal rape? Zalatix Jan 2012 #169
First of all, unless you've been there, don't presume to know what it's like Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #174
Excuse me? You're the one cursing and getting irrational. I don't need to know what it's like Zalatix Jan 2012 #175
I am far from irrational. Cursing does not equate to irrationality. Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #185
i read it. what a post. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #187
That is the best post I've ever seen on DU. redqueen Jan 2012 #188
This post deserves to be an OP varelse Jan 2012 #197
+1 redqueen Jan 2012 #210
THANK YOU! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ uppityperson Jan 2012 #209
rape most certainly is deviant arely staircase Jan 2012 #199
in their mind, they are not interpreting it as rape. i dont know why people dont get this. seabeyond Jan 2012 #200
Check out the seduction community.. redqueen Jan 2012 #204
i do not know what you are talking. i saw a bit on a thread. seduction has never worked for me. seabeyond Jan 2012 #206
It means if a woman starts resisting your advances for sex redqueen Jan 2012 #207
ya. that. eeew. it was in all the movies. it always made me uncomfortable. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #211
im sure all sorts of deviants, not only rapists, arely staircase Jan 2012 #216
"Rape" as in "real rape" is "deviant." Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #218
one is either a rapist or not rapist. and if one is a rapist one is deviant - regardless of arely staircase Jan 2012 #222
The problem with this kind of thinking Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #231
uh, you are the one asserting that there is a third category (outside of rapist or not rapist), arely staircase Jan 2012 #233
I think you've completely misunderstood Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #238
as i suspected nt arely staircase Jan 2012 #240
Actually, if you put everything I've posted together... Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #242
seriously, can't you whittle this down to a succinct statement? like, two to three arely staircase Jan 2012 #243
No. I'm not you. Thank the goddess. n/t Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #244
better luck next time. nt arely staircase Jan 2012 #245
I'm not a psychologist, but. . . . Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #217
this is the problem and the refusal to allow this concept to be realized. for whatever reason, this seabeyond Jan 2012 #219
I think in some cases -- maybe here, maybe not -- it's fear Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #220
i think this should be the conversation, the starting point, in the next thread. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #221
Excellent post. ronnie624 Jan 2012 #152
The problem is that boys and men know it all, too, Lance_Boyle Jan 2012 #82
I dont think they do. redqueen Jan 2012 #84
It's NOT a tiny tiny minority Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #102
Again, you're making the assumption Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #45
That is superb -- brilliant too. Remember Me Jan 2012 #55
Because "assholes who rape" will stop being assholes if only they knew better? mistertrickster Jan 2012 #67
you are more concerned about the rad fems than girls/women being raped. and a boys/mans life ruined seabeyond Jan 2012 #91
exactly Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #103
i have a couple sons. i have a couple of nieces. you can damn well bet have discussed ownership seabeyond Jan 2012 #105
K&R Solly Mack Jan 2012 #15
My sister has 4 daughters - all of them small in stature Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2012 #17
And all those various things, those "safety measures" prove Remember Me Jan 2012 #56
I know. It's a bit of a war zone for us. nt Sarah Ibarruri Jan 2012 #58
I plan on doing both with my children. ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #18
+1000 Remember Me Jan 2012 #235
rec x eleventy billion lapislzi Jan 2012 #19
People don't understand how painful their words can be. Marrah_G Jan 2012 #20
I've never been in a bar-fight. mistertrickster Jan 2012 #21
Please read the essay Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #24
Thank you. redqueen Jan 2012 #25
Looks to me like you're both telling me what I think and attacking me for it at the same time. mistertrickster Jan 2012 #65
No, I most certainly did not tell you what you think. Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #79
You seem to be assuming that women don't do anything to prevent rape lunatica Jan 2012 #86
Excellent response. n/t Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #104
"I also don't know any women who go to bars alone." Sera_Bellum Jan 2012 #117
i lived in reno, a 24 hour town, late shift. i went into bars alone. i had no problem, nor felt seabeyond Jan 2012 #124
I too lived in Reno for a few years; greiner3 Jan 2012 #166
i would be served the booze. a lot. for free. lol lol. seabeyond Jan 2012 #167
Not all men are rapists -- BUT Remember Me Jan 2012 #236
Good idea treestar Jan 2012 #22
BRAVO Ebony Magazine. Matariki Jan 2012 #26
Jackson Katz has been trying to change this paradigm for some time, too. PeaceNikki Jan 2012 #27
Oh yes, I love his work... redqueen Jan 2012 #30
Here's another I literally just found that I think you'll enjoy: PeaceNikki Jan 2012 #32
Evidence-free conclusion . . . mistertrickster Jan 2012 #69
It's called male privilege Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #80
get a girl drunk on a date, men pay for it one way or another, no doesnt mean no.... the simple seabeyond Jan 2012 #99
This bears repeating: "prevention in not really prevention; rather, it's risk reduction," Remember Me Jan 2012 #241
k/r fishwax Jan 2012 #37
I'd like to clear something up. redqueen Jan 2012 #38
I am incredulous etherealtruth Jan 2012 #46
Uh, they're into denying ANY Remember Me Jan 2012 #57
I know etherealtruth Jan 2012 #172
Part of the response may be the caption - which wasn't limited to advertisements. Ms. Toad Jan 2012 #47
My daughters do not need ad campaigns, as I can provide them with basic, common sense advice myself. Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #50
college campus's now have a team of jr and sr that goes to these parties to watch out for the seabeyond Jan 2012 #97
This terrifies me. stevenleser Jan 2012 #157
All of the above. n/t Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #161
so much is about her own empowerment and confidence and that is gained in time. seabeyond Jan 2012 #164
As part of every graduation gift for young women, I give them Gavin DeBecker's "The Gift of Fear" riderinthestorm Jan 2012 #229
I entirely agree with the concept, but seriously lack the faith in testosterone laden persons to Lionessa Jan 2012 #39
You do realize how offensive that is, right? redqueen Jan 2012 #138
agreed. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #143
"anti-rape campaigns that target young men and boys" vs arely staircase Jan 2012 #48
Fully agree. While boys need to be taught that "no means no" Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #49
they are both very important things to teach - nevermind public service announcements arely staircase Jan 2012 #192
This. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #77
Why is this so hard to understand? EOTE Jan 2012 #127
very good points. i do believe education (of boys and men) can prevent rapes arely staircase Jan 2012 #186
K&R! Louisiana1976 Jan 2012 #51
I suspect this has been asked before but... randome Jan 2012 #53
Because I find them worthy of discussion. redqueen Jan 2012 #81
It's a huge social problem chrisa Jan 2012 #112
Exactly, it's men that need to be told to not rape. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #60
Great idea. Tell bankers not to foreclose on people's houses while you're at it. nt mistertrickster Jan 2012 #75
Correction: it's rapists that need to be told to not rape. Lance_Boyle Jan 2012 #83
Once again, like it or not, ALL MEN are potential rapists Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #106
Or ask my friend who was raped by her BFs friend. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #108
I guess what I dislike is this attitude Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #110
Silly Analogy ProfessorGAC Jan 2012 #128
You're not a rapist, but you are a potential rapist Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #130
Tansy, I'm going to be blunt. Occulus Jan 2012 #140
I have merely stated facts Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #142
Interesting to see the insults thrown around... redqueen Jan 2012 #144
Well? What the hell do you expect? Occulus Jan 2012 #147
*sigh* redqueen Jan 2012 #148
See below. Occulus Jan 2012 #150
It doesn't make any difference. Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #160
Rape is about power, not sex FrodosPet Jan 2012 #246
That's just blatantly offensive Lance_Boyle Jan 2012 #134
Lance, if you go back to the sex/women's issue threads of the past several weeks, Occulus Jan 2012 #135
It's not offensive and it's not wrong -- ALL WOMEN are potential false rape accusers Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #137
Apparently your logic is highly offensive. redqueen Jan 2012 #139
You mean, the thread that just got locked? Occulus Jan 2012 #145
POTENTIAL. You want to go look that up, or keep waving the strawman around? redqueen Jan 2012 #146
Distinction without a difference. Occulus Jan 2012 #149
We're done. redqueen Jan 2012 #151
There you go again Occulus Jan 2012 #154
I would say it's hard to believe that you actually truly do think... redqueen Jan 2012 #156
Saying "all men are potential rapists" does the trick rather nicely. Occulus Jan 2012 #158
No, it's just as logical. And thanks for the nasty picture, too... redqueen Jan 2012 #153
That picture has fuck-all to do with the way a woman looks Occulus Jan 2012 #155
Let's see. Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #162
no they aren't, that is a hateful thing to say. arely staircase Jan 2012 #189
I never said women can't or don't coerce or pester partners into sex Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #191
Just to clarify -- You do understand the difference between "potential" and "future," don't you? Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #193
i think you are being a bit more clear, i think arely staircase Jan 2012 #196
All WOMEN can potentially falsely accuse men of rape. cottonseed Jan 2012 #232
Yeah, I know. I said that. Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #239
Correction: Sera_Bellum Jan 2012 #121
this is the newest study and i cannot find others i have seen on this. it matters with study, seabeyond Jan 2012 #126
Yes, I know Sera_Bellum Jan 2012 #129
ahhhhh. really? wow. it was all layed out. a number of different studies seabeyond Jan 2012 #131
Try using the Wayback Machine or Google Cache... justiceischeap Jan 2012 #132
Thanks for posting that link. redqueen Jan 2012 #141
If there is any one person who explodes the "scary monster" myth Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #194
Yeah, society doesn't want to go down that road yet apparently... redqueen Jan 2012 #205
k&r uppityperson Jan 2012 #62
This article baldly states that "it's not effective" - any reason to believe that? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #63
Um, maybe if it were effective, women wouldn't still be getting raped? Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #66
"Only about 20% of rapes are reported to law enforcement" mistertrickster Jan 2012 #72
Many rapes are reported to other agencies besides law enforcement Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #73
Then those agencies are covering up a crime that should be prosecuted. nt mistertrickster Jan 2012 #74
Many rapes aren't reported BECAUSE they can't be prosecuted Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #76
Tansy you've done a terrific job of making your point on this thread lunatica Jan 2012 #87
+1 redqueen Jan 2012 #90
Thank you, Lunatica, and redqueen, too Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #107
I think you've obviously got the bona fides to show you know what you're talking about lunatica Jan 2012 #109
What are YOU Sera_Bellum Jan 2012 #123
I would imagine if a woman goes to the hospital after she's been raped justiceischeap Jan 2012 #100
That is not logical, captain. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #113
a very large group of boys/men you do not address are those that dont see rape, as rape. seabeyond Jan 2012 #116
Yes Sera_Bellum Jan 2012 #125
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #71
I heard a LOT of advice when Kobe, Tyson, and Roethlisberger were accused. U4ikLefty Jan 2012 #70
AG Holder announces new FBI definition of rape niyad Jan 2012 #78
K DeathToTheOil Jan 2012 #85
I am so sick and tired of the women being blamed for this LynneSin Jan 2012 #95
I think a "don't rape" campaign could be effective, chrisa Jan 2012 #111
I am way late to this party. Busy few days, but have to add my "voice" of support. nt riderinthestorm Jan 2012 #165
"is it rape?" mzteris Jan 2012 #171
Thank you for posting that here. (nt) redqueen Jan 2012 #173
I'm sorry but a lot of us men would never dream of forcing ourselves on a woman and find this ddeclue Jan 2012 #176
1. There is no broad brushing of "all men as rapists". redqueen Jan 2012 #177
can I call you a whaambulance for telling you the truth? ddeclue Jan 2012 #178
No but you can use one yourself for your excuses for rejection. redqueen Jan 2012 #179
reply ddeclue Jan 2012 #180
i married my friend. i have always liked nice guys, wont accept anything less in my life seabeyond Jan 2012 #182
I've always preferred being sober Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #190
... it just gets worse, doesn't it? redqueen Jan 2012 #183
... ddeclue Jan 2012 #230
Men AND women get drunk as an excuse to have sex Hippo_Tron Jan 2012 #202
If you *assume* that a woman gets drunk in order to have sex with you, redqueen Jan 2012 #203
Again, I don't see why this is so difficult... Hippo_Tron Jan 2012 #208
" a lot of women INTENTIONALLY go out and get that drunk on purpose ... redqueen Jan 2012 #212
As I posted above, I think the poster is frustrated by some bad experiences Hippo_Tron Jan 2012 #214
"too drunk for her own good" redqueen Jan 2012 #215
no I'm not saying most I am saying some... ddeclue Jan 2012 #228
You said "most". redqueen Jan 2012 #237
My rule is that she must be 1) more sober than me. 2) not have had more than 3 glasses of wine in ddeclue Jan 2012 #223
i think those are pretty good ground rules seabeyond Jan 2012 #224
actually I am such an easy drunk (and I am a relatively big guy) that 2 or 3 glasses and I have a ddeclue Jan 2012 #226
bah haha, see. i drink like you do. seabeyond Jan 2012 #227
I think you have entirely too broad a definition of "taking advantage of" Hippo_Tron Jan 2012 #234
You should be honored that several women found you to be trustworthy friends Nikia Jan 2012 #184
that would be great if it wasn't ALWAYS the case. Women love to make friends with me. ddeclue Jan 2012 #225
I think you're broad brushing women based on some bad experiences Hippo_Tron Jan 2012 #213
Sexual Assault Prevention Tips JNelson6563 Jan 2012 #181
Never. Iggo Jan 2012 #195
I agreed up until the part about consumption of alcohol Hippo_Tron Jan 2012 #201
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