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Azathoth

(4,612 posts)
123. Saw her in person a few times over the years, shook her hand once I think
Sun Apr 28, 2024, 04:44 PM
Apr 28

But was never in a position to sit down and speak with her.

Your description of her fits with what I've heard from others who got to know her personally. In fact, as far as I can remember, I've never heard anyone who didn't have a political axe to grind claim she wasn't pleasant and knowledgeable in person.

But being a smart and charming in one-on-one social situations is not the only thing most people look at when considering presidential candidates. I won't rehash all the serious policy and ethical debates regarding her, as they're in the past and truly insignificant compared ro Trump's unprecedented crime orgy clown show.

But since you concede that she didn't have the charismatic ability to connect with voters through mass communication that her husband did (something that once was impossible to say about her without being accused of Ted Bundy-levels of misogyny), I'll point out just one of the myriad issues that bugged me (and others) about her in 2008: she started her elected career on third base. Yes, lots of millionaires and billionaires attempt to do the same thing, and most of them end up doing nothing but wasting a lot of their own money (*cough* Bloomberg *cough*). But Hillary didn't use her own money, she used her husband's political achievements. And she only ran for two offices: a US Senate seat in one of the bluest states in the Union while her husband still President and controlled the entire national Democratic campaign infrastructure (a win that her supporters read *way* too much into), and the White House (which Hillaryworld had pretty openly admitted was the actual goal from the start). She skipped the part where she first ran for State Assembly, then Congress, then became a governor somewhere, etc. This is important, because not only was the first potential female president on the ballot solely because her husband had gotten her to a place where she could do so (not really a great icon for the history books), but she had also circumvented the natural weeding-out process that keeps people who don't have certain talents from rising to high office (or at least forces them to learn skills to overcome those deficits).

Take AOC. She got swept in as a freshman Congresswoman as part of a wave. And she was a disaster. She didn't have the communication skills, the knowledge of government or policy, or the basics of charisma or good optics for connecting with people outside of a very narrow ideological zone. But now look at her. She's boned up on her knowledge, she has gotten significantly better at delivering interviews and speeches and media stunts, and her penchant for giving Charles Manson-smiles for cameras has suddenly disappeared. She may never be President, but by starting out small and working up she has acquired valuable skills that would be necessary should she try to get elected to higher office. Hillary assumed that because she was smart and knowledgeable and had watched Bill do all this for decades, she could just step in and do it just as well as he did. She couldn't. And while her time as SoS definitely burnished her credentials and added additional gravitas to her candidacy, the nature of the job was not one that helped her strengthen those weaknesses. And by the time she ran again in 2016, the cake was already baked. No one was listening, one way or the other.

"I just don't like Hillary..." [View all] MineralMan Apr 26 OP
Sometimes it's really hard to understand how some people decide things. bluestarone Apr 26 #1
I wonder if DU should update this rule... Think. Again. Apr 26 #2
What does the OP have to south Primaries brooklynite Apr 26 #6
Not talking about the primary. MineralMan Apr 26 #7
In spite of everything, Hillary won in 2016, too. Tansy_Gold Apr 26 #41
We have the system we have. With just a few tens of thousands of MineralMan Apr 26 #43
I mentioned "the last election" because Tansy_Gold Apr 26 #61
We can change the electoral system, MineralMan Apr 26 #63
You joined DU in 2023. What are you talking about the 2016 primary? yardwork Apr 26 #15
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 26 #62
Does the word "last" have a new meaning now? Not even about the primary anyway. betsuni Apr 26 #20
A grouped reply to all of the above posts; Think. Again. Apr 26 #22
Why forget such an important and fascinating year in history? betsuni Apr 26 #34
You are so right, also I am looking for rats that are still creeping around. William769 Apr 26 #38
You would have to take that up with the admins. Think. Again. Apr 26 #39
... betsuni Apr 26 #40
The OP is not about the last Democratic primary. Permanut Apr 26 #26
Why Would you Think the OP is About a "Primary"? Cha Apr 26 #28
Exactly. Its obviously about the general election. revmclaren Apr 26 #75
I agree. intheflow Apr 26 #86
First rule of the TOS Arthur_Frain Apr 27 #93
Lol! Thanks for that. Think. Again. Apr 27 #96
For no reason? MrsCoffee Apr 27 #117
Yes, OPs popping up without anything prompting such... Think. Again. Apr 27 #119
That's No. 2 on my list of phrases I loathe that are related to Trump supporters. Aristus Apr 26 #3
They're dumb and bored. yardwork Apr 26 #16
Tractor pulls and monster truck rallies not enough for them anymore? Aristus Apr 26 #21
Where does this one rank? wryter2000 Apr 26 #24
I'm not sure that one even deserves to have a numeric ranking. Aristus Apr 26 #32
Oh, I do like a good Hitchiker's reference lmao n/t Cheezoholic Apr 26 #56
For my ex-neighbor, it was "he tells it like it is". She would never explain "it". LoisB Apr 26 #31
Of course not. They're just babbling what they hear the babblers on the TV say. Aristus Apr 26 #35
I heard those exact words from almost every Trump voter I knew. Mr.Bill Apr 26 #52
It's difficult for smart people to admit when they're wrong. Aristus Apr 26 #54
That's a good one. Mr.Bill Apr 26 #65
Who are you asking? brooklynite Apr 26 #4
Whoever said that. Whoever said that MineralMan Apr 26 #9
A lot of people who did not like Hillary still voted for her. Did those people cause Trump? Autumn Apr 26 #5
If they voted for her, I have no brief with them. MineralMan Apr 26 #8
Well... just expect crickets cause that's all anyone is going to put in the pot. Autumn Apr 26 #11
OK, then. MineralMan Apr 26 #12
Former Bernie follower who voted Hillary Tree Lady Apr 26 #10
"Biden is too old." Same thing. MineralMan Apr 26 #13
Did they shit on her all throughout 2016 while doing so? W_HAMILTON Apr 26 #59
Pure hyperbole. You are never going to find a Democratic or Republican candidate that everyone Autumn Apr 26 #69
Lawrence: SCOTUS justices of 3 GOP presidents ended Roe. 'Your vote lives after you.' LetMyPeopleVote Apr 26 #14
Exactly! MineralMan Apr 26 #19
Damn right. calimary Apr 26 #36
The fictional Hillary monster is the one they thought they didn't like. betsuni Apr 26 #17
She was certainly not my first choice but I voted for her eagerly over Trump! Quixote1818 Apr 26 #18
I was stunned also... Think. Again. Apr 26 #23
The polls right before election day said she had about a 2 in 3 chance of winning. Mariana Apr 26 #84
Yes, they said she was ahead, I think I mentioned that. Think. Again. Apr 26 #85
I was so stunned, I had to go home sick from work. Aristus Apr 26 #33
I wanted her so bad in 2008 Polybius Apr 26 #25
It is good to learn from history but it is useless to try to beat it to death. Chainfire Apr 26 #27
Talking about history is beating it to death? betsuni Apr 26 #37
more people voted for Hillery in that election. period. Srkdqltr Apr 26 #29
Hillary, please. MineralMan Apr 26 #47
Thank you so much. Srkdqltr Apr 26 #72
That doesnt matter that's not how we elect presidents Fullduplexxx Apr 26 #64
Yes i know, its stupid Srkdqltr Apr 26 #66
Oh i completely agree ...nt Fullduplexxx Apr 26 #71
Well... Mike Nelson Apr 26 #30
It was the demonizing of Hillary for me. ismnotwasm Apr 26 #42
Yes, exactly. MineralMan Apr 26 #45
What's even more appalling NanaCat Apr 26 #87
This is the fascinating thing! How did so many people be so stupid to believe the BS? betsuni Apr 26 #49
Yeah, the Obama campaign was pretty rough on her. Hassin Bin Sober Apr 26 #73
lol ismnotwasm Apr 26 #80
I could never understand why. She's likable enough Autumn Apr 26 #89
In 2016 I grew so frsutrated pfitz59 Apr 26 #44
Something tells me that many, if not most, of the petulant people who did that Patton French Apr 26 #46
You are correct. MineralMan Apr 26 #48
Too many men used such personal animus... GiqueCee Apr 26 #50
Yes. MineralMan Apr 26 #58
Their response is, predictably, seething psychosis. jaxexpat Apr 26 #51
Yes. MineralMan Apr 26 #60
I know people who didn't like Hillary but still voted for her Model35mech Apr 26 #53
Yes. Just not quite enough. MineralMan Apr 26 #55
Ding ding ding! PortTack Apr 26 #57
And now some of these geniuses are mcar Apr 26 #67
I voted for Trump because of HER EMAILS Martin Eden Apr 26 #68
There are none here who MineralMan Apr 26 #70
Silence of the .... Martin Eden Apr 26 #74
As far as I know there is a rule against saying you don't like Hillary. Hope22 Apr 26 #76
There is a rule against saying you don't like Hillary? JoseBalow Apr 26 #88
i just love it when they cant give u an answer. AllaN01Bear Apr 26 #77
We have just seen how media poisoned voters away from her. GreenWave Apr 26 #78
Well, I DO like Hillary Jilly_in_VA Apr 26 #79
Sadly, this year the "Biden's old" whine proves we are useless children lindysalsagal Apr 26 #81
Biden IMO is better than any other POTUS. He always has that calm I've got this Autumn Apr 27 #94
Well, it was Hillary's "turn" so ... Ligyron Apr 27 #118
No one is entitled to a turn as President. That's for a monarchy. Autumn Apr 27 #120
Only the terminally stupid and divorced from reality NanaCat Apr 28 #125
Not so sure about the everyone else "busting their hump to get her into office" part. progressoid Apr 29 #133
Oh FFS NanaCat Apr 28 #127
Where did ahe say she didn't know why Joe didn't run? Rob H. Apr 29 #130
Anyone who has been paying attention for a month would know Democrats are well Autumn Apr 29 #132
OFFS yourself. It was a what if. Your rage doesn't change the fact that had he as Bidens VP Autumn Apr 29 #131
I saw an interview with Bill Clinton several years ago and he was asked this question. jalan48 Apr 26 #82
Do you imagine those voters wringing their hands in regret? SYFROYH Apr 26 #83
No, I don't imagine that. MineralMan Apr 27 #91
You just couldn't break rank and not vote R because? czarjak Apr 27 #90
Yet many Trump voters said they didn't like him but voted for him anyway. betsuni Apr 27 #92
People often act strangely. MineralMan Apr 27 #95
The electoral college is a difficult explanation peacebuzzard Apr 27 #97
I agree, but it is a constitutional issue. MineralMan Apr 27 #99
It is difficult to explain peacebuzzard Apr 27 #102
No doubt. However, there is an explanation. MineralMan Apr 27 #103
same thing w bill. same thing with jimmy. same thing w obama. i remember it well thank you very much. AllaN01Bear Apr 27 #98
Politics is the art of the possible Kennah Apr 27 #100
I didn't like Hillary. I voted for her. Azathoth Apr 27 #101
Did you ever meet her? DFW Apr 27 #116
Saw her in person a few times over the years, shook her hand once I think Azathoth Apr 28 #123
That's taking the dimmest view. DFW Apr 28 #124
And? So? NanaCat Apr 28 #129
It was more than a handful of the 'I Hate Hillary' crowd NanaCat Apr 28 #128
You're not giving PUTIN enough blame. Nt Baltimike Apr 27 #104
Putin? MineralMan Apr 27 #105
Not different...absolutely related Baltimike Apr 27 #122
I agree, completely. MorbidButterflyTat Apr 29 #134
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 27 #106
Me? Yes MineralMan Apr 27 #107
Post removed Post removed Apr 27 #108
Spreading rumors again I see. Enjoy!!!! GP6971 Apr 27 #109
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 27 #110
Was that LG? I was just started to read all about their supposed Jill Stein CT against Hillary and 'poof' hlthe2b Apr 27 #112
Yes it was. GP6971 Apr 27 #113
Seemed familiar... MineralMan Apr 27 #114
Very familiar...long term resident troll. GP6971 Apr 27 #115
Thank you MIRT for taking out the trash Niagara Apr 27 #111
I don't like her Polybius Apr 27 #121
Here in the prison labor camp Stardust Mirror Apr 28 #126
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