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wnylib

(25,256 posts)
18. I don't know what churches you are thinking about,
Sun Jun 23, 2024, 12:45 PM
Jun 2024

or what ones you might be familiar with (I suspect none), but of the 3 denominations that I'm personally familiar with, the budgets are not secret. Once a year they are printed up in a pamphlet for the parishioners to review. Anyone, whether a member or not, can request a copy of the budget or raise questions about it.

The congregation holds a meeting to discuss shortfalls in covering expenses. Or, more rarely, if expenses have been lower than expected and there's money left at the end of the fiscal year, they discuss whether to hold it in case of unexpected future expenses, donate it to one of their regular charities, give it as a one time gift to a new charity, put it toward updating materials and equipment in the day care, etc. Options are nominated, discussed, and voted on.

Such fiscal meetings are open to the entire congregation and anyone else who attends. They are usually scheduled for after a Sunday service, but can be held at another time, i.e. a Wednesday evening. Churches prefer the Sunday after service time when most people are present. I have even been to a church where a meeting was held as part of the service in place of the sermon, with a separate follow up meeting to go into more depth.. Date and time of the financial meeting is announcrd two or more weeks in advance.

If there are a lot of things to discuss, follow up meetings are scheduled. Most churches have committees, guilds, or " circles" (the terminology varies by denomination) assigned to specific tasks in the church (charities, youth group advisors, education, etc.). A nominated option might be assigned to one of those groups to look into it further and report back for a vote.

You seem to be operating on an assumption that all churches are get rich quick schemes with secretive hoards of money (from where?) that are going into someone's (whose?) pockets. That might be true of mega churches on TV and publicity hound ministers who beg for money from TV and radio audiences for "worthy causes" that don't exist while the pastors own private jets, 3 houses, and a beachfront condo in Hawaii. But that is not true of the average, everyday church serving local communities.

I grew up in the Lutheran Church. My father was an elected member of the church council. My mother taught Sunday School and sang in the choir. They were, with another couple, advisors for the youth group. So I learned a lot about how the church operates. My husband and I moved several times for his job and we attended other liberal churches frequently, i.e. Presbyterian and Episcopal. I have helped in community outreach programs as a volunteer at churches where I was not a member. I have relatives who belong to various denominations and have seen that there are many similarities in how they operate with regard to finances.

I don't know what kind of gold mine you expect to find in churches for taxation, but I suspect that your concern is based more on personal antagonism toward religion in general than on money to be gained from taxing non profit organizations.

Not every minister is a Jerry Falwell, Jim Baker, or Billy Graham, using religion for politics, money, or fame Not every minister or priest is molesting children, and not all churches try to cover up abuse when it is reported. The 3 denominations that I am most familiar with have rigorous background checks and monitored internships before a pastor is even ordained. Any inappropriateness is grounds for dismissal/defrocking and is reported to police if it involves a crime like abusing children physically, psychologically, or sexually. They also do background checks on volunteers who work with children. When I was a volunteer at one Lutheran Church's community outreach program with adults, I applied to be a volunteer Big Sister for a little girl who was in another program at the church. I had to take a standardized pychological exam which was sent out for professional evaluation, go through a police background check, have a personal interview with the program's director, have a home visit by the director, and provide 4 written references from people in professional positions who were not friends or relatives. Only after I successfully completed all the requirements was I assigned to the child.

I know that it is hard for skeptics to believe it, but there really are more people than you might think who actually do believe in "good works" without financial or political rewards. Maybe they do it out of guilt for having more than others. Maybe they compensate for feeling guilty about something else. Maybe it makes them feel righteous. Maybe they think that it will get them to a good afterlife reward. But I have met many who do it just because they are caring, empathetic people who want to make the world a better place.





Recommendations

2 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Your church is not one of them. [View all] onecaliberal Jun 2024 OP
What rationale is there not to tax the churches? Stardust Mirror Jun 2024 #1
They are also interfering in the operation of our gov't. Irish_Dem Jun 2024 #4
Nazi MAGA shithead Jack Hibbs admitted he was instrumental in flipping the Chino Hills school board. Initech Jun 2024 #23
They are no longer churches, they are political operatives. Irish_Dem Jun 2024 #25
For sure! Initech Jun 2024 #26
People don't want to follow church dogma, so the church leaders make it the law Irish_Dem Jun 2024 #29
no true Scotsman nt Stardust Mirror Jun 2024 #39
When were they not? dchill Jun 2024 #28
Back in the day, I don't remember priests and nuns lecturing people Irish_Dem Jun 2024 #41
They still don't. demosincebirth Jun 2024 #44
That is absolutely true, and it is why the rationale - and there was one - no loger holds. soldierant Jun 2024 #40
They said screw that, let's go for money and power. Irish_Dem Jun 2024 #42
The belief is (was?) they did more good through their charity than would be generated in tax revenue OnlinePoker Jun 2024 #6
The rationale is that they are nonprofit organizations. wnylib Jun 2024 #7
thanks . i was going to post something on this line , but the last time i did it i got yelled at. AllaN01Bear Jun 2024 #8
I've noticed that the harshest criticism of churches wnylib Jun 2024 #9
did you miss this part? Stardust Mirror Jun 2024 #10
my church split our two major charities into separate 503C non profits yellowdogintexas Jun 2024 #12
cool Stardust Mirror Jun 2024 #13
The finances of the churches that I know are not secret. wnylib Jun 2024 #36
Here is a link that describes the IRS criteria for wnylib Jun 2024 #37
from your link: Stardust Mirror Jun 2024 #38
Thank you for describing the work that your church does. wnylib Jun 2024 #24
No, I did not miss any part of your post. wnylib Jun 2024 #16
how about churches being required to have open books? Stardust Mirror Jun 2024 #17
I don't know what churches you are thinking about, wnylib Jun 2024 #18
if your church's books are so open then no problem if all others would be too Stardust Mirror Jun 2024 #21
You don't need a church to do charitable work. Sky Jewels Jun 2024 #11
Of course you don't need a church to do charitable work. wnylib Jun 2024 #22
So what if some churches ordain women and have female clergy? Sky Jewels Jun 2024 #34
yeah show me where that was said in this thread Stardust Mirror Jun 2024 #14
I believe that religion in this world has been at the center most conflicts..... usaf-vet Jun 2024 #15
It may not happen where you volunteer.... usedtobedemgurl Jun 2024 #20
It's all about the Benjamins. dchill Jun 2024 #30
Effin' great points! Doc Sportello Jun 2024 #27
Spot on! anciano Jun 2024 #2
As Jesus said, Gruenemann Jun 2024 #3
Remind me Cherokee100 Jun 2024 #5
Agree republianmushroom Jun 2024 #19
I hope this ages well 0rganism Jun 2024 #31
Because of the FOUNDING FATHERS underpants Jun 2024 #32
Not every church is one of them bernieb Jun 2024 #33
No church anywhere is a branch of the government . onecaliberal Jun 2024 #35
I 💯 percent agree BlueKota Jun 2024 #43
The separation of Church and State is a fundamental part of our goverment LetMyPeopleVote Jun 2024 #45
Tax the Church lindalou65 Jun 2024 #46
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