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Emrys

(8,090 posts)

36. OK, let's not get into hairsplitting, but I was responding to "invaded".

Fri Dec 6, 2024, 07:19 PM

Dec 6

The Falklands (if anyone wants to split hairs over them, yes, they are technically a British-administered overseas territory inhabited by Britons) was an existential conflict for the Thatcher government. Its polling was atrocious, then Argentina invaded, and the scramble to fire up the public and scrabble together a task group convulsed the whole country - living here, it felt like a real war, extreme jingoism included, along with the sad fate of too many veterans who never recovered from their experiences even if they didn't die in combat. If the task group hadn't defeated the Argentine occupiers, say if a negotiated end to the conflict (which seems to be all the rage nowadays) had been necessary, it's likely the Thatcher government would have fallen.

Kursk has also been one in the eye for Putin when he least needed it, but not yet an existential threat, granted.

Since you mention Israel, the Yom Kippur War occurred when it's highly likely Israel had already developed undeclared nuclear weapons, and that seemed quite existential at the time. The nuclear weapons didn't seem to play a role in the outcome.

There have been cross-border incursions on both sides between Pakistan and India, but again, yeah, not existential so far.

Russia and China have also had some cross-border incursions either way.

And then I'll come to the USA, the one nuclear-armed state that's actually used them in war.

The Russians are bragging openly on-air that they're literally dismantling the US's political system and installing a friendly regime.

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30 yrs ago today: Ukraine disarmed itself voluntarily in exchange for security assurances from US, Britain and Russia [View all] Dennis Donovan Dec 5 OP

None of this would have happened Evolve Dammit Dec 5 #1

One of the worst blunders of the moniss Dec 5 #2

The worst blunders came afterwards Emrys Dec 5 #7

I disagree that the parties were ever going to go to the mat for moniss Dec 5 #10

Apart from anything else, Russia held the launch codes for the missiles Emrys Dec 6 #13

It's not about launching them as much as moniss Dec 6 #14

I can't believe you're seriously suggesting this, twice now Emrys Dec 6 #15

Your response sounds childish and hopelessly naive. moniss Dec 6 #17

The threat would have set up Ukraine for military intervention PDQ to prevent it spreading nuclear materials and weapons Emrys Dec 6 #18

You position would make any country a pushover in international negotiations.nt moniss Dec 6 #22

Your position would see nuclear materials and weapons in the hands of even bigger crooks and bastards - Emrys Dec 6 #26

It would be foolish to claim that countries that have bargained over moniss Dec 6 #28

What would really be foolish is to imagine that Ukraine's position was strong enough at the time to attempt such a ploy. Emrys Dec 6 #31

Only a poor negotiator could come away moniss Dec 6 #38

We may be a bout to see the theft of our assets, so I hope MadameButterfly Dec 6 #11

This may be the end of the non-proliferation treaty. Crunchy Frog Dec 5 #3

And 10 years ago... druidity33 Dec 5 #4

While the leaders signed the documents they crossed their fingers behind their backs. Jacson6 Dec 5 #5

Putin has vowed to annihilate Ukrainians and their country. sinkingfeeling Dec 5 #6

That's quite noble but if you mind if I ask Jspur Dec 6 #20

No, but he had an Ukrainian girlfriend we helped to leave after Putin invaded. sinkingfeeling Dec 6 #23

I wish Biden would push through NATO membership for Ukraine MadameButterfly Dec 6 #12

He can't DetroitLegalBeagle Dec 6 #34

Thanks to the Nunn-Lugar Act, and Ash Carter. The Budapest Memorandum meant that... FailureToCommunicate Dec 5 #8

It was a mistake. Passages Dec 5 #9

Misleading. WarGamer Dec 6 #16

SOVIET nukes ck4829 Dec 6 #24

yes WarGamer Dec 6 #25

They shouldn't have Meowmee Dec 6 #19

Turns out those were empty promises Bettie Dec 6 #21

Blunder or pay-off? OAITW r.2.0 Dec 6 #27

A nuclear armed nation has never been invaded. Never. paleotn Dec 6 #29

Well, Ukraine invaded a chunk of Russia earlier this year Emrys Dec 6 #32

You don't get my meaning. That sliver of land in the Kursk oblast isn't existential to the Russian regime's existence. paleotn Dec 6 #33

OK, let's not get into hairsplitting, but I was responding to "invaded". Emrys Dec 6 #36

You're splitting hairs. paleotn Dec 6 #37

I'll split another one, then: Emrys Dec 6 #39

Let's take this at face value. Newly independant Ukraine was promised security by the Russians and by us. MMBeilis Dec 6 #30

I remember saying at the time they would regret it JCMach1 Dec 6 #35