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In reply to the discussion: Amendment 2 Blues [View all]grantcart
(53,061 posts)13. Excellent except on one point
A proper reading of the history of Amendment 2, as well as of the Constitutional Law related to it, makes clear that it is -- at very least -- intended to protect individual rights, as well as group (militia) rights.
The second ammendment was explicitly ambiguous. We know that by using the tool of literary criticism and reading of the first ammendment.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
compared to the second ammendment
As passed by the Congress:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
In other words if they wanted to make it an explicitly worded right for individuals they knew how to do so, as is showed by the clear unambiguous language of the first ammendment.
It is also clear that the emphasis was on the militia part of the formula when you look at Madison's original ammendment
James Madison's initial proposal for a bill of rights was brought to the floor of the House of Representatives on June 8, 1789, during the first session of Congress. The initial proposed passage relating to arms was:
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.[87]
In any case the phrase "well regulated", almost universally forgotten by the NRA, indicates that unlike the freedom of speech which needed no qualifying phrases the freedom to bear arms is one that had to be done in the context of regulations that would also safeguard society.
The NRA has an excellent record of fighting bans on guns in court but almost never challenge regulations in court because it is such an integral part of the constitution.
The second ammendment was clearly designed to incorporate the idea of protections of individuals to form into organized groups to save the constitution and not an absolute right to bear guns for individuals.
Of course that doesn't mean that gun owners cannot argue that the constitution doesn't implicitly support their individual rights to own a gun along the same lines that we argue that privacy laws support a woman's right to control her own body. However if the writer's of the first ammendment wanted to make an explicit clear statement for individual ownership of fire arms they were capable of doing so. They didn't do it in the second ammendment, perhaps they didn't even think it was necessary to do so.
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You used "Bill of Rights" and that opens questions as to their source. Your failure to discuss that
jody
Dec 2012
#6
Since you imply you are serious and meaningful, please define the source of rights you cite in OP.
jody
Dec 2012
#22
Obviously you can't answer a simple question. You really don't know much about "rights" do you! nt
jody
Dec 2012
#26
I didn't state any facts . . . . oh wait I did -- the fact that you are way too angry
coeur_de_lion
Dec 2012
#41
LOL you and OP author know bare minimum or less about RKBA much less about rights in general.
jody
Dec 2012
#43
I see you are just another disruptor full of vacuous remarks devoid of substance. Goodbye nt
jody
Dec 2012
#49
22. "please define the source of rights you cite in OP." I'm betting you can't but you'll reply with
jody
Dec 2012
#34
Enough, you've proven you can't answer that simple question so nothing else you post has credibility
jody
Dec 2012
#36
I'll take a shot...Is it your contention that the 2nd amendment, and others, secure
jmg257
Dec 2012
#40
Seems like I am with you. The right to self defense certainly is a basic right. But
jmg257
Dec 2012
#47
Also realizing, like Madison said..."the restrictions, however strongly marked on paper,
jmg257
Dec 2012
#50
I do steer into the religious territory from time to time...I'll have to pay more attention. nt
jmg257
Dec 2012
#59
bongbong why don't you consolidate all your insults and other vilifications into one post because
jody
Dec 2012
#14
bongbong you frequently refer to NRA Talking Points. Do you have a link to them or is that just
jody
Dec 2012
#20
"Well regulated" quite cleary refers to "militia", and has little to do with the right to arms,
jmg257
Dec 2012
#18
Yes Congress has all the authority it needs for the militia in Article I, Section 8, clauses 15 & 16
jody
Dec 2012
#27
You mean Madison's religious exemption, or the Senate's 'for the common defence'?
jmg257
Dec 2012
#66
"the need to address the brutal realties of violence in America demands action, now."
coeur_de_lion
Dec 2012
#29
Read this stuff? Not if our friends Jack and Daniel have anything to say about it.
coeur_de_lion
Dec 2012
#56