General Discussion

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)

86. There is no such thing as a "conventional free market capitalist nation"

Sat Jan 28, 2012, 01:31 PM

Jan 2012

Capitalism is the sovereignty of capital. Talk of "free market" is in most cases a myth. Real capitalists hate free markets, they like monopolies. Efficiency and competition are often in conflict, in their view. The only competition they like is among laborers, which is why China is so wonderful. In capitalist economies, the state is powerful and intervenes constantly in the service of capital. Capital and the state have always worked together, contrary to "free market" mythology. Economic units strive to maximize profit and externalize cost. The question is whether profits accrue mainly to private or public owners. In China it's the latter, so the one-party dictatorship gets to call itself "communist."

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

102 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Apple Threats: “Work hard on the job today or work hard to find a job tomorrow.” [View all] kpete Jan 2012 OP

Ahhhhh, CAPITALISM! HughBeaumont Jan 2012 #1

You think China is capitalist? former9thward Jan 2012 #24

. . . that employs Western capitalistic practices as a volunteer slave state for America. HughBeaumont Jan 2012 #27

If you didn't say it you are playing word games. former9thward Jan 2012 #33

Bullshit. white_wolf Jan 2012 #47

By your definition no country has ever been socialist/communist. former9thward Jan 2012 #50

China is probably the single most capitalistic country on earth. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #98

I have visited Tibet but not the 'main' portions of China. former9thward Jan 2012 #99

Bullshit. They use the term Communist because term fascist has too much baggage. snagglepuss Jan 2012 #56

Bullshit back at you. former9thward Jan 2012 #69

There is no such thing as a "conventional free market capitalist nation" JackRiddler Jan 2012 #86

China is viewed as ideal by the big US corporations. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #82

There is no doubt China has a complicated economy. former9thward Jan 2012 #85

I don't hate China and... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #87

China is neither Communist or Capitalist. They are Fascist. nt onehandle Jan 2012 #43

How do these people sleep at night? Earth_First Jan 2012 #2

"On a pile of money, vit many beautiful vimmen" JHB Jan 2012 #66

A few companies who's products are made in the same factories as Apple's by the same workers: onehandle Jan 2012 #3

thanks so much for that list! kpete Jan 2012 #4

I find it troubling that the outrage always falls on Apple. Eid Ma Clack Shaw Jan 2012 #6

I thought Apple was supposed to "Think Different"? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #7

That's a lazy answer and you know it. Eid Ma Clack Shaw Jan 2012 #12

I generally blame the biggest, most powerful company. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #14

If you look at that list, you'll find lots of "big, powerful" companies Art_from_Ark Jan 2012 #64

Yes, but Apple is the biggest customer and most valuable company in the world. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #67

Are you shilling for Apple? snagglepuss Jan 2012 #57

Sounds like branding rather than a philosophy... LanternWaste Jan 2012 #29

Not me gopiscrap Jan 2012 #13

back at ya twitcher Jan 2012 #19

I stand by what I say gopiscrap Jan 2012 #53

sure twitcher Jan 2012 #54

So the CIA, homeland security and department of motor vehicles is "nobel work" hughee99 Jan 2012 #75

ROFL ROFL ROFL snooper2 Jan 2012 #96

so DonCoquixote Jan 2012 #65

The kid with the lemonade stand is a mythic creature... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #89

as someone who ran a hot dog stand DonCoquixote Jan 2012 #90

Sure, we've (almost) all worked for a living... JackRiddler Jan 2012 #92

The point is DonCoquixote Jan 2012 #95

It's because progressives regularly defend Apple, explicitly or implicitly. Dreamer Tatum Jan 2012 #16

You have a real chip on your shoulder about "hipsters" Eid Ma Clack Shaw Jan 2012 #23

my experience…and a thought or two twitcher Jan 2012 #32

Great offering. Eid Ma Clack Shaw Jan 2012 #41

Increasing democracy. That is more computer/internet industry propaganda, snagglepuss Jan 2012 #60

arab spring? twitcher Jan 2012 #72

An anomoly that will be corrected. Twitter has stated it will censor snagglepuss Jan 2012 #76

How many people does Walmart employ in the US compared to Apple? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #34

Apple employees don't need to apply for food stamps, unlike WalMart employees REP Jan 2012 #35

So Apple has no part-time employees? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #36

That's because most of Apple's employees (subcontractors) are Overseas. Apple actually pays LESS. Romulox Jan 2012 #40

OK twitcher Jan 2012 #46

Bwahahahaha. "An ugly perjudice about hipsters". That is effing hysterical. Don't ever snagglepuss Jan 2012 #58

Cloa Wars, Part 2 LanternWaste Jan 2012 #31

Human rights abuses are similar to "the cola wars"? It boggles the mind. nt Romulox Jan 2012 #42

No one actually said that. Eid Ma Clack Shaw Jan 2012 #51

Um, "somebody" said that, (minus the spelling error.) It may be unflattering, but your claim is Romulox Jan 2012 #71

I find it troubling that the largest exploiter of this situation is Apple... joshcryer Jan 2012 #61

Tough for Apple. It's a deserving target and a good choice in PR terms. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #88

How much cash on hand do those companies currently have? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #9

Thanks I was feeling bad but now I see it's OK and excusable. MattBaggins Jan 2012 #28

NO one excused anything Eid Ma Clack Shaw Jan 2012 #30

Amazon makes products? ecstatic Jan 2012 #37

Kindles are made by Foxconn. Also, Amazon sells a lot of electronic accessories as 'Amazon Basics.' onehandle Jan 2012 #38

Thanks nt ecstatic Jan 2012 #39

You are really a fanboy I guess! Logical Jan 2012 #78

How soon will some company executive think of posting that slogan in this country? AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #5

The attitude is rampant, even here on DU. "It's their company, they can run it how they want!" Brickbat Jan 2012 #10

They may not be posting it, but the sentiment is there MountainLaurel Jan 2012 #18

If the label says "made in China," I assume it was made under conditions such as these, no matter Brickbat Jan 2012 #8

Yup, otherwise their goods would cost too much to sell here. Zalatix Jan 2012 #63

Made by slaves = huge profits. Brickbat Jan 2012 #70

all businesses that are allowed to sell in the US gopiscrap Jan 2012 #11

Yes, in china at foxxconn... Javaman Jan 2012 #15

Fort Tu Quoque - home to the Defend Apple Brigade. nt Dreamer Tatum Jan 2012 #17

No, I don't defend apple, I expose all that are guilty. Javaman Jan 2012 #20

She has a real obsession with Apple and a disturbingly negative view of the "idiots" and "hipsters" Eid Ma Clack Shaw Jan 2012 #25

"He" has a real talent for strawmen arguments. nt Guy Whitey Corngood Jan 2012 #44

Where is the straw man? Eid Ma Clack Shaw Jan 2012 #45

Someone starts a marijuana thread. He comes around talking about made up posts Guy Whitey Corngood Jan 2012 #48

Oh, okay! Eid Ma Clack Shaw Jan 2012 #49

nt Javaman Jan 2012 #52

Kindle Fire, cost to build, $202. Cost to buy? $199. joshcryer Jan 2012 #62

So you worry less about people and more about price. Javaman Jan 2012 #68

The single largest indicator of labor fairness is price / labor ratio. joshcryer Jan 2012 #80

So one of the most popular book readers "of all time" is being sold at a loss is good business. Javaman Jan 2012 #94

Erm, it's common business practice and it's perfectly legal, and smart. joshcryer Jan 2012 #100

huh? twitcher Jan 2012 #73

He bought his when it first came out. LOL nt Javaman Jan 2012 #77

LOL, you paid for a contract. joshcryer Jan 2012 #79

yes twitcher Jan 2012 #81

Current plans for two years that I see are between $1320 to $3240. joshcryer Jan 2012 #83

Apple IS making money twitcher Jan 2012 #84

Kindle makes its $ on sales of books, I think. I bought a Kindle below cost @ $85.... Honeycombe8 Jan 2012 #91

instead of unions and worker rights Enrique Jan 2012 #21

Every buck stuck in Wall St. raouldukelives Jan 2012 #22

You mean "Cisco Threats" right? blasto Jan 2012 #26

China owns 26% of all foreign held securties, maybe the U.S. govt... just1voice Jan 2012 #55

Apple and other tech firms better start to "Think Different" agentS Jan 2012 #59

Over here if you try to start a union you will suddenly find yourself unemployed. undeterred Jan 2012 #74

Things like this really make me, an Agnostic, hope Rex Jan 2012 #93

They are a ROTTEN company to work for. Zoeisright Jan 2012 #97

An Apple thread a day keeps the... Atman Jan 2012 #101

The saying does not mean what you are trying to make it. bluestate10 Jan 2012 #102