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haele

(12,640 posts)
44. Actually, wages from $25 to $40 an hour do trickle down to the economy at a high rate.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:55 PM
Mar 2013

People working at that level tend to spend most of their money in their local economy - at grocery stores, family restaurants, mechanics, dentists, pharmacies, veteranarians... They also still tip at a decent rate to their wait-staff. They tend to pay almost all tax levies they are required to pay (especially in sales taxes) and they usually don't have enough deductible expenses to take advantage of the larger corporate loopholes at the state or federal level that might actually give them subsidies.
This level of wage is the money that creates jobs, supports community services through the taxes and local spending, and ultimately is the greatest driver in raising both community standards and wages at the lower levels of income.

It isn't until around $55/60 an hour that some of that money really starts to go into investments outside the local economy - that's at the $110 - $130K gross salary level. But even then, you'll probably be seeing more of the luxury services in the economy - private accounting or legal services, contractors, high-end restaurants and entertainment venues getting part of those wages.

At around $250K salary, probably a third to a half the income that person is making is sheltered somehow from taxes - if they're smart with their finances and not living large or using a small business as a personal ATM. The loopholes they can use are also a lot larger, and I do know of some people even at that level who are able to leverage those loopholes and sheltering vehicles to actually receive more money back than they paid in taxes over the year.

The only people who aren't able to see a significant savings at the $250K - $500K income level are those who don't invest, or disabled/chronically ill people who are carrying their own health and living support costs (health care deductions suck!), or are supporting several adult dependents who aren't working and can't be deducted. Another failure to save at that level is found in those who are running a "family business", i.e., leveraging family/home resources or paying employees under the table to "save on costs short term" - and they aren't able to realize all their deductible business costs - primarily because they aren't separating their personal income from business revenue, for whatever reason.
Usually this is because they don't want to admit how little they are honestly making from their business if they ran it as a business instead of admitting that at that level, it is really a hobby business - or they're running their business as the family ATM, buying toys like RVs, boats, and vacation homes on "excess profit" during good quarters that they should be plowing back into the business - or into savings or capital income vehicles to take care of retirement for everyone involved after they get too old to run their business.

Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland - these were thriving cities with a sustainable lower working/service class when there was a majority middle working and professional class living, working, and spending in the city. When the wage gap was more equally divided, and a high-school diploma or associates degree/trade school certificate could get someone on their way to a comfortable life and a chance to retire in dignity.
When the working middle class fell into just the "working class", and the gap between the wealthier and the poorer levels of income became greater, and those with the money left to get away from those "nasty, dirty, ignorant poor people", these cities just started to crumble.

People who try and pit the middle working class against the poor by complaining about wage differences are ultimately apologists for the business or financial "tycoons" who want to keep living like kings, hording their money in offshore accounts instead of paying their fair share to maintain the thriving infrastructure that contributed to - and keeps contributing to, despite their misguided efforts - their great wealth.

The poor don't deserve to be poor and certainly need help to get to a place they don't need assistance and have access to an income that allows them a decent standard of health and living.
But those who still have jobs that pay close to the compensation they deserve due to the work they are providing and are paying their fair share of taxes to maintain the community infrastructure are not the ones causing the suffering and low wages and are certainly not the ones who should be "punished" or scorned because they're not the greedy fools and/or bigots who have taken away the living wage jobs and ability to maintain the local community.

Haele

kr HiPointDem Mar 2013 #1
K&R n/t OneGrassRoot Mar 2013 #2
K&R Sherman A1 Mar 2013 #3
"Austerity for thee, not for me . . ." HughBeaumont Mar 2013 #4
"We're not all in this together." moondust Mar 2013 #8
To "be competitive" ... Puzzler Mar 2013 #5
How is half of 28, 19? trumad Mar 2013 #6
It makes for a better story is my guess madokie Mar 2013 #7
I noted that also. xtraxritical Mar 2013 #66
Raises erpowers Mar 2013 #9
Because the 50% cut was 5 years ago Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #10
Gotcha trumad Mar 2013 #12
You left a sentence out... we need to know what "that" is bobclark86 Mar 2013 #32
It was cut in half and has now gotten to $19 csziggy Mar 2013 #78
CEOs are the New Royalty Octafish Mar 2013 #11
Is $19 per hour for an entry-level worker really that bad? Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #13
Is $21 million "reasonable" for ... 99Forever Mar 2013 #16
If every company in the US paid entry-level workers $19 per hour, Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #22
No one... 99Forever Mar 2013 #25
+1. IMO, not only do we need a much higher minimum wage, winter is coming Mar 2013 #30
but MANY are actually feasting hfojvt Mar 2013 #36
Way to buy into the fascist bullshit. 99Forever Mar 2013 #38
whatever that means hfojvt Mar 2013 #48
Like crabs in a bucket. 99Forever Mar 2013 #51
yeah I know that one hfojvt Mar 2013 #56
Wrong. 99Forever Mar 2013 #59
oh I know hfojvt Mar 2013 #61
Still wrong. 99Forever Mar 2013 #67
Actually, wages from $25 to $40 an hour do trickle down to the economy at a high rate. haele Mar 2013 #44
1st Rate post Populist_Prole Mar 2013 #49
not really very populist hfojvt Mar 2013 #58
So a wage of $50K a year puts you in the elite? haele Mar 2013 #69
$50,000 a year puts you above about 50% of the rest of the country hfojvt Mar 2013 #72
Deep breath - The benefit is in the taxes and spending that the $50K - $100K does. haele Mar 2013 #74
you just keep repeating the argument for trickle down hfojvt Mar 2013 #75
No I'm making this point because this is part of the research I am doing for my degree. haele Mar 2013 #77
it's certainly not trickle DOWN hfojvt Mar 2013 #79
OK - 95% of my family income going to taxes and local businesses means I'm just like the top 1% haele Mar 2013 #80
swing some more? hfojvt Mar 2013 #81
Swing away - notice that though I tell you the percentage of taxes that come out of my paycheck - haele Mar 2013 #82
Side comment - If you want to know what your vet's life of luxery is, look up kestrel91316 haele Mar 2013 #83
No it isn't... dickensknitter Mar 2013 #18
That's about twice sulphurdunn Mar 2013 #26
sounds pretty darn good to me hfojvt Mar 2013 #33
So....why, out of curiosity... A HERETIC I AM Mar 2013 #57
What is a comfortable living? hfojvt Mar 2013 #60
That is a question only you can answer A HERETIC I AM Mar 2013 #62
except you are not talking about reality hfojvt Mar 2013 #65
So the idea that the person who MAKES the product you are buying BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #40
So, what do you think would be a fair hourly wage for entry-level employees? (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #41
Here's my answer BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #42
Can't support a family of 4 in the Bay Area. That's right at the poverty level. demosincebirth Mar 2013 #53
When I had an entry-level job in the 1980s I couldn't even afford an apartment of my own. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #54
This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2013 #14
And, I bet this CEO NewJeffCT Mar 2013 #15
Welcome to capitalism. nt TBF Mar 2013 #17
Message auto-removed setab Mar 2013 #19
that's what you take away from that? xchrom Mar 2013 #21
So... He's the new Jack Welch and all the MBA lemmings are following in his lead? Hugin Mar 2013 #20
And you still hear people edhopper Mar 2013 #23
But how many tee times has he sacrificed for that salary? At least, a couple. valerief Mar 2013 #24
The outsourcing was designed to lower our pay out of desperation for a job. Dustlawyer Mar 2013 #27
^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #39
Is there a profit sharing payout? n/t Mopar151 Mar 2013 #28
If we had Medicare for All, the worker's health insurance costs wouldn't be in car prices. Scuba Mar 2013 #29
It's one of those things that makes all the sense in the world, which is why it'll never happen. HughBeaumont Mar 2013 #35
Both of these are excellent responses nt BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #43
I will say this for Mullaly...he saved Ford from bankruptcy. Ikonoklast Mar 2013 #31
Yup. Agschmid Mar 2013 #46
K&R. Seems like 2 million would be wonderful enough. Overseas Mar 2013 #34
you expect somebody to live on just THAT? hfojvt Mar 2013 #37
Yes indeed. He's not the only one. And stock helps things along. Overseas Mar 2013 #50
k&r n/t RainDog Mar 2013 #45
Ford is also charging 30+ grand for a new car just1voice Mar 2013 #47
Now if the executives salaries was cut by half then the company could return the workers Thinkingabout Mar 2013 #52
Nope. Do the math. Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #55
On the other hand, think about this; A HERETIC I AM Mar 2013 #63
There was a little story created with CEO Mulally in mind ... lpbk2713 Mar 2013 #64
The only real problem with that scenario is this: Without Mulally, there was a very real chance Ikonoklast Mar 2013 #68
Then he's probably worth about $500,000/year salary Duer 157099 Mar 2013 #70
k & r thanks for posting..... nt Stuart G Mar 2013 #71
Ford again in the news for negative shit. Rex Mar 2013 #73
It is the xxqqqzme Mar 2013 #76
Hate to say it, but for $21 million Ford under him ignores design for style... sfpcjock Mar 2013 #84
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