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In reply to the discussion: I do not need... Eurocentric feminists to dictate to me what I wear or shouldn't wear. [View all]Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)26. Apparently, Muslim women are too brainwashed to articulate their own needs
and desires and need white women to tell them that they are doing it wrong.
Alas, the white feminist's burden.
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I do not need... Eurocentric feminists to dictate to me what I wear or shouldn't wear. [View all]
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
OP
I think that person couldnt come up with a factual argument, so they made up ad hominem stuff about
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#178
i meant i didn't read either ofyour posts that way. i didn't read yours as being directed to cd's
HiPointDem
Apr 2013
#361
Blatant lie? Like you claiming I said the anti-FEMEN group is telling anyone how to dress?
EOTE
Apr 2013
#317
Exactly EOTE .That person and their supporters dont care if Tunisia goes to Sharia
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#412
FEMEN believes that the hijab=opressions. They march in Muslim neighborhoods
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#10
The choice to wear hijab is one thing. Flogged or stoned to death for showing breasts is another
Matariki
Apr 2013
#13
are Muslim Women in France, UK , Spain flogged or stoned to death for showing breasts ?
JI7
Apr 2013
#18
And western feminists marching through their neighborhoods naked is addressing
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#19
So their goal is to spread the message that they don't need to be controlled by men?
Squinch
Apr 2013
#55
I am curious about what others think FEMEN's message is, and what their goal is.
Squinch
Apr 2013
#59
freedom for women for what ? there are "pro women" groups in the US and their focus
JI7
Apr 2013
#144
Is freedom of total self determination possible? Does anyone on earth have that?
Squinch
Apr 2013
#352
Am I crazy in thinking this is precisely their goal in this? To evince this kind of response?
Squinch
Apr 2013
#82
well, the article said they are aware they get faux interest and think it;'s still worthwhile.
bettyellen
Apr 2013
#89
they are protesting against Muslims in the West , they are calling on those muslim women
JI7
Apr 2013
#62
so, protesters don't need to educate or empower anyone for change these days? Interesting dodge.
bettyellen
Apr 2013
#91
I do observe, however, that the women in the African protests left absolutely no doubt
Squinch
Apr 2013
#114
Whether this particular group of women are conducting their protest 'correctly'...
randome
Apr 2013
#130
Oh, but then we're right back to the idea that it's about giving women the choice to go topless.
Squinch
Apr 2013
#132
so, it;s more of an art piece then, than a protest, because actvists have actionable goals and no
bettyellen
Apr 2013
#117
But that's exactly the point. The lack of clear message makes us have to conclude: In the end, who
Squinch
Apr 2013
#129
Huh? If someone has a protest and no one knows or cares why- it;s a good thing?
bettyellen
Apr 2013
#146
that's art, not politics. and vapid performance art is exactly what most of femen reminds me of.
HiPointDem
Apr 2013
#188
You mean something like Banksy? Solders Painting Peace, One Nation under CCTV, etc.?
idwiyo
Apr 2013
#410
Well, Femen disagrees with you. They say that their boobs are billboards
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#374
No, that is a logic fail. It is both. Boobs are their billboards and part of the message. nt
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#414
under what authority? and where does that say 'fatwa' as opposed to his opinion?
HiPointDem
Apr 2013
#321
Islam has no central authority. As we saw with the fatwa against Salman Rushdie
riderinthestorm
Apr 2013
#333
islam has lots of 'central authorities'. rushdie's fatwa was issued by the religious and civil head
HiPointDem
Apr 2013
#362
Yeah, fine. So Amina should just head out to the local Tunisia Starbucks
riderinthestorm
Apr 2013
#366
Only YESTERDAY the Tunisia Assembly's tie was broken by Ettouir's vote
riderinthestorm
Apr 2013
#382
No, Tunisia is not on the precipice of becoming an Sharia state and nothihng in your link
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#384
it's not 'nothing' and i didn't say it was. it's not a 'fatwa' though, if by 'fatwa' you mean an
HiPointDem
Apr 2013
#386
That the Arab Spring revolutions have turned into an Arab Chill via Islamist
riderinthestorm
Apr 2013
#415
And some FEMEN members are Muslims themselves. Don't they have the right to their views?
pnwmom
Apr 2013
#313
I'd contend saying the words of any prophet are above criticism is an assault on common sense.
Kurska
Apr 2013
#211
I'm rather offended that you seem to associate being Christian with being American.
Kurska
Apr 2013
#225
I'm not endorsing any of these positions, but just trying to understand your logic here.
Kurska
Apr 2013
#238
I understand you fine, I however think you are holding two incredibly double standards here.
Kurska
Apr 2013
#338
Well first off, any society that wouldn't freely let someone change their religion is pretty wrong.
Kurska
Apr 2013
#393
Being able to change religions is the result of a breakdown of community and family? Are you real?
Kurska
Apr 2013
#425
I hate calling a way of thinking "anti-American", but I'd say that clearly applies in this case
ButterflyBlood
Apr 2013
#435
You don't need "x ray eyes", the precincts voting yes are pretty obvious.
ButterflyBlood
Apr 2013
#417
Its "halal". Pretty big blunder if you really do see them everywhere nt
riderinthestorm
Apr 2013
#421
I live about three blocks south of a halal market, and I'm in a white mostly hipster neighborhood
ButterflyBlood
Apr 2013
#433
Yes I know, it's a gradual shift of people from Uptown because the rent is cheaper
ButterflyBlood
Apr 2013
#441
The whole city voted against, but what does that prove? St. Paul is not all Catholic
ButterflyBlood
Apr 2013
#446
yeah, if only they have read the Quoan, they would have known that accoring to Hadith
idwiyo
Apr 2013
#246
Yeah, see, I don't think Femen's feminist detractors really stop to listen to themselves.
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#273
You (generic) have a right to beleive, but there is no right to demand respect for your belief.
idwiyo
Apr 2013
#411
You mean I should respect it and stuff? :) Of course I have greatest respect for anyone
idwiyo
Apr 2013
#424
You were told this blogger is transphobic bigot but you just repost the link anyway?
idwiyo
Apr 2013
#249
Do you think the Koran is friendly to women? You never responded to this video..
snooper2
Apr 2013
#99
I think Femen would be just as happy with a world where religions dont contribute to the harming
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#116
Then your interpretation is that FEMEN wants world religions to eradicate their bias toward women?
Squinch
Apr 2013
#118
Either that or they want them to go away altogether, yes. That would be one of Femen's goals. nt
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#120
As a result of my frequent appearance on RT, I have a lot of media friends
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#272
In what sense is ukraine a region with a 'tradition of strident anti-clericism'?
HiPointDem
Apr 2013
#399
more or less banning religious display from above isn't grassroots anti-clericism. it's an
HiPointDem
Apr 2013
#404
Good for them - respect for Islam (as opposed to for Muslims) is a bad thing.
Donald Ian Rankin
Apr 2013
#239
Do you too, then, think that FEMEN is protesting for the right to choose to go topless?
Squinch
Apr 2013
#43
Then you are thinking that FEMEN is trying to break down the outmoded cultural foundation
Squinch
Apr 2013
#67
Oh, bullshit. Don't you dare try to conflate me with neocons and military actions,
Zorra
Apr 2013
#250
a better comparison would be to say they represent all American women or all those who have
JI7
Apr 2013
#252
there were actually a few supporters here- when they raided the compound in TX
bettyellen
Apr 2013
#280
"I was hit with a belt and I turned out OK" -- Sean Hannity, defending Rutgers BB coach Mike Rice.
Manifestor_of_Light
Apr 2013
#289
that's because they go to Muslim areas in Brit and other western places and call on
JI7
Apr 2013
#16
You mean inviting others to join them equals to forcing them to go naked? Also, can you provide some
idwiyo
Apr 2013
#224
And their message is "We love the forced female dress-code of male interpreters of our religion...
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#143
Most of them are wearing headscarves. I never said they were required to wear burkas. nt
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#152
but so what ? do you think a woman who wears a headscarf is being oppressed and does so because
JI7
Apr 2013
#158
I know. I've read about them. I still regard it as Zorra suggested. Something akin to Stockholm
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#166
And that is the ignorance. What makes you think they accept the loss of freedom?
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#173
Because I spent 10 hours reading and communicating with many Muslim women today...
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#181
I've spent a lot more than 10 hours. I've actually spent long visits to Muslim countries.
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#184
And yet you seem to know nothing about Muslim feminists or the strategies and
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#195
Oh I've read all about them. They remind me of GOProud and Log Cabin Republicans.
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#198
Apparently, Muslim women are too brainwashed to articulate their own needs
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#26
what has that got to do with Muslims in the West, as the OP shows many of them are not covered up
JI7
Apr 2013
#47
Well, for the record, the debate in Tunisia is whether to go to Sharia law. That's what got Amina
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#200
France actually Does Ban full covering , so there is some dictating in that way which i have no
JI7
Apr 2013
#37
for many people religion is more like culture, they don't believe everything literally
JI7
Apr 2013
#159
Xmas trees are the best thing ever! I could not throw that baby out with the bath water either.
bettyellen
Apr 2013
#170
the Femen Protests kind of Remind me of the Anti Mosque Protests in the United States
JI7
Apr 2013
#65
They readily admit that they go topless to get the attention of the media.
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#136
Its simple isnt it? Yet we have folks in this thread arguing the message is confused. It isnt.
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#177
Do you think the people supporting FEMEN did not understand before the protests that women in
Squinch
Apr 2013
#354
no, because people are fucking stupid and thought Saddam had something to do with islamic
JI7
Apr 2013
#231
Americans supported Iraq war because they wanted to look at boobies and Iraq didnt allow nekkidnees?
idwiyo
Apr 2013
#233
no, because people were fucking stupid and thought Saddam had something to do with Islamic
JI7
Apr 2013
#234
It was a joke, relax. Though still not sure why you are so bothered by FEMEN and their boobies.
idwiyo
Apr 2013
#237
I find what Islam does to women and gays in the middle east far more offensive than anything
Kurska
Apr 2013
#206
Righteous indignation at the bare human body makes for strange bedfellows doesn't it? n/t
Kurska
Apr 2013
#227
and yet, the brave women of femen have yet to take on the saudis. they prefer less dangerous
HiPointDem
Apr 2013
#245
but wait, i thought they were at risk of being arrested. imprisoned & stoned? so i'm constantly
HiPointDem
Apr 2013
#295
FEMEN will have a slam dunk in this exchange when the next honor killing in Europe happens.
JVS
Apr 2013
#244
It's even more than that. This all started because Tunisia is considering going back to Sharia...
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#275
Sure, and there are women who stand outside abortion clinics with signs that read....
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Apr 2013
#266
Way to miss the point. These women don't want to be nannied by neocolonial feminists.
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#301
They are working in their own communities in their own cultural context.
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#316
And they are failing. Sharia is a serious possibility for Tunisia. They can claim to be feminists
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#318
I never said that. I said that there are already Muslim femnists active in their communities...
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#327
Amina is a Muslim woman working in her own cultural context in her own country
riderinthestorm
Apr 2013
#340
Um no. They are using yesterdays action as a springboard for their own.
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#371
NO! Most of the pics on that site are protesting FEMEN. Amina IS FEMEN.
riderinthestorm
Apr 2013
#377
They don't want to talk about Amina or the deadly serious reason she did what she did.
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#349
Really. You do realize that the reason why they decided to go full frontal was to get the attention
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#323
+1. I almost didn't post on this thread at all. Same people, same scolding nt
riderinthestorm
Apr 2013
#342
How extraordinarily patronizing and without realizing it, you are emphasizing these women's point.
Luminous Animal
Apr 2013
#307
Damn, they are not buying "menz & titties"... YAY! FEMEN makes wemmenz unsafe with tiities!!!
idwiyo
Apr 2013
#409
It's always good to see women do good activism, whether I believe in the message or not.
Nika
Apr 2013
#312
Really, no one is dictating what women should wear? Because that is EXACTLY what many Islamists do.
Quantess
Apr 2013
#350
In my day they did. They wouldn't let you into church if you weren't wearing a hat
Cleita
Apr 2013
#357
I think a lot of Western feminists don't even realize how condescending they are at times.
TimberValley
Apr 2013
#360
And predictably there is crickets to your response. They are intent on ignoring Amina.
stevenleser
Apr 2013
#413