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In reply to the discussion: Where have societies' views of women come from? [View all]RainDog
(28,784 posts)85. This study claims human ancestors had societies like bonobos
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature11128.html?WT
...based upon comparisons of DNA sequences - tho, as you noted, .1% more of our DNA is shared in common with common chimps than with bonobos... but WHERE these differences and likenesses exists matters greatly.
It's interesting, also, to see that we share DNA in common with both in ways that they don't share with one another.
Anyway, looking at reproductive rates for bonobos, the people who did that study think that females left their communities and migrated to a new one while the males stayed in the one they were born into - which indicates matrilineal families, since all offspring would be the child of the males b/c all offspring would be from their brothers. And this is the social structure of bonobos. Maybe this is a chicken or egg argument, tho.
But, based upon that, it would seem like the move to male oppression of females came long after we diverged from a common ancestor - or, put it another way, the common chimp is the outlier, not the norm, in terms of social organization between the three, based upon DNA commonalities.
Is that how you would read this, too?
...based upon comparisons of DNA sequences - tho, as you noted, .1% more of our DNA is shared in common with common chimps than with bonobos... but WHERE these differences and likenesses exists matters greatly.
It's interesting, also, to see that we share DNA in common with both in ways that they don't share with one another.
Anyway, looking at reproductive rates for bonobos, the people who did that study think that females left their communities and migrated to a new one while the males stayed in the one they were born into - which indicates matrilineal families, since all offspring would be the child of the males b/c all offspring would be from their brothers. And this is the social structure of bonobos. Maybe this is a chicken or egg argument, tho.
But, based upon that, it would seem like the move to male oppression of females came long after we diverged from a common ancestor - or, put it another way, the common chimp is the outlier, not the norm, in terms of social organization between the three, based upon DNA commonalities.
Is that how you would read this, too?
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the poster to whom you responded is one seriously dedicated feminist, and probably, as I am,
niyad
Apr 2013
#13
True, I suppose. But that was a new idea at the time. Very modern and a new way of thinking
Honeycombe8
Apr 2013
#11
No, I haven't done a scientific study. That was my opinion, based on things
Honeycombe8
Apr 2013
#12
^This. When survival depended on brute strength, a woman needed a man to survive more than a
Squinch
Apr 2013
#80
where does it come from? the abrahamic, patriarchal religions, to start (meaning, christianity,
niyad
Apr 2013
#15
I read it many years ago, thought I still had a copy somewhere, but I dont. Saw Riane in
niyad
Apr 2013
#37
will have to order that one, as well. thank you. that one I know is not on my shelves.
niyad
Apr 2013
#87
Good post. I would add that before war and settled communities came an ecological barrier that
byeya
Apr 2013
#56
Genetically, humans are slightly closer to common chimps than bonobos, I think. When a bonobo female
byeya
Apr 2013
#53
There are still matriarchal societies today. The Mosuo in China come to mind
riderinthestorm
Apr 2013
#35
The anthropologist Marvin Harris showed that the more militaristic a society was, the worse females
byeya
Apr 2013
#41
Thomas Jefferson who wrote "All MEN are created equal" and left out 76% of the country
graham4anything
Apr 2013
#51
You're asking for a single source, for one of human society's most complex constructs?
Scootaloo
Apr 2013
#78