2nd Amendment (Reply #107) - Democratic Underground

In the discussion thread: Is there any reasonable argument that the second amendment is actually a good thing? [View all]

Response to DanTex (Original post)

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 09:16 AM

OLDMDDEM (1,416 posts)

107. 2nd Amendment

If we are allowing guns mainly used during times of war under the second amendment, then those who own them should be okay with being drafted in times of war so as to honor their commitment to the 2nd amendment. Otherwise, get rid of the amendment and simply outlaw guns of war to private citizens.

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204 replies	Author	Time	Post
Is there any reasonable argument that the second amendment is actually a good thing? [View all]	DanTex	Apr 2013	OP
We lose 10 times as many lives due to tobacco. And it's legal.	geckosfeet	Apr 2013	#1
But tobacco is not constitutionally protected, and nobody thinks it should be. (AFAIK)	DanTex	Apr 2013	#4
And very rarely does the tobacco user	SheilaT	Apr 2013	#6
Good response.	AlinPA	Apr 2013	#29
Maybe you missed the part about second hand smoke,,,,	geckosfeet	Apr 2013	#70
No, I didn't. Reread my answer.	SheilaT	Apr 2013	#80
I see. Well, tobacco kills by a different mechanism. And it does not kill right away.	geckosfeet	Apr 2013	#82
You realize that guns cause instant death	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#108
Nonsense.	beevul	Apr 2013	#116
Yeah, real heavy taxes on devices designed to kill	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#118
You said...	beevul	Apr 2013	#120
Guns sre designed to kill	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#121
And yet...most aren't used for that.	beevul	Apr 2013	#123
So you agree that guns are designed to kill	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#124
I agree that they're designed to propel a projectile...	beevul	Apr 2013	#127
Guns are designed to kill,	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#133
I don't notice them being used for doorstops......	lastlib	Apr 2013	#126
You don't notice most of them bsing used...	beevul	Apr 2013	#128
Oh yeah you do, they make lots of noise	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#135
Almost all guns are bought for one of two purposes	jmowreader	Apr 2013	#159
Target shooting is not practice killing	hack89	Apr 2013	#189
There are two gun stores less than a mile from my house	jmowreader	Apr 2013	#192
Competitive target shooting uses none of those targets.	hack89	Apr 2013	#193
I know. And how many of you are there?	jmowreader	Apr 2013	#194
So where is the carnage from all these highly trained killers?	hack89	Apr 2013	#196
What a stupid thing to say.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#169
Sure, then explain what they are designed for	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#171
"Guns sre designed to kill. It is their only reason to exist." Yet millions of Democrats disagree.	AnotherMcIntosh	Apr 2013	#186
Guns are designed to kill is fact not opinion	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#187
You say "Millions of Americans believe the earth is flat." Good luck with your flat-earth meetings.	AnotherMcIntosh	Apr 2013	#197
You can read some	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#198
Yep. Sometines they do. Usually death is caused by blood loss though.	geckosfeet	Apr 2013	#134
Smoking is restricted, regulated, and heavily taxed	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#112
so what? why shouldnt kids learn to shoot. most seem to enjoy it.	geckosfeet	Apr 2013	#161
So kids should be able to do anything they enjoy	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#162
Because you believe a lot of preconceived notions and stereotypes?	geckosfeet	Apr 2013	#163
No, I'm just going by what you say	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#164
You don't have to. But it's a good lesson.	geckosfeet	Apr 2013	#165
I'm glad you learned	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#166
If guns were outlawed, many of the people would die, anyway.	Honeycombe8	Apr 2013	#167
You say, "Guns exist for one reason and one reason only." Yet millions of Democrats don't agree.	AnotherMcIntosh	Apr 2013	#185
Yes, the 2nd Amendment IS a Good Thing, and the OP is Completely Wrong.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#81
All you've done is explained why it made sense in 1789.	jeff47	Apr 2013	#84
You've never heard of an armed insurrection?	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#92
Try actually reading what is written.	jeff47	Apr 2013	#109
Let's take another look at Libya.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#136
Quick! Divert again!!!!!	jeff47	Apr 2013	#147
You're being intentionally obtuse.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#149
You're ignoring the 200 years of history since the 2nd was ratified.	jmg257	Apr 2013	#160
Tell that to Eisenhower.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#170
What would I do?	jmg257	Apr 2013	#202
I own a well-regulated clock. It keeps time perfectly. (end)	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#203
That's wonderful. Is it regulated by the state, according to federal guidelines?	jmg257	Apr 2013	#204
An armed citizenry is a strong deterrent against tyranny? Here in the U.S.?	Paladin	Apr 2013	#115
Dick Cheney never lost any sleep....	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#140
I've owned guns for the last 50 years. They don't scare me.	Paladin	Apr 2013	#143
So in other words, all you have is name calling.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#168
It sounds like you still have a lot of things to prove to yourself.	Paladin	Apr 2013	#188
Armed insurrection made us lose Vietnam?	tblue	Apr 2013	#129
You're aware, aren't you, that the Vietnamese say that war as a war for independence, right?	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#137
nice try.	spanone	Apr 2013	#102
... that standing armies, in time of peace,	Blue4Texas	Apr 2013	#154
This post is not about tabacco.	brush	Apr 2013	#87
Tobacco is regulated and highly taxed to offset the cost of illness...	Walk away	Apr 2013	#156
I have a firearm for self protection.	Throd	Apr 2013	#2
From whom?	femmocrat	Apr 2013	#5
I don't have a specific name.	Throd	Apr 2013	#7
I never get that meme. Fire extinguishers weren't	upaloopa	Apr 2013	#21
Different tools for different purposes.	Throd	Apr 2013	#22
My point is you stand a better chance of being	upaloopa	Apr 2013	#24
I don't think that is true.	Throd	Apr 2013	#26
Obviously	upaloopa	Apr 2013	#28
it's true.	veganlush	Apr 2013	#51
On a broad and general basis perhaps...	Pelican	Apr 2013	#68
What you "think" doesn't change anything.	morningfog	Apr 2013	#60
You can't apply a broadly general statistical probability to a specific individual.	Lizzie Poppet	Apr 2013	#69
Duh.	truebluegreen	Apr 2013	#144
No argument.	Lizzie Poppet	Apr 2013	#145
No, fire extinguishers are designed to put out fires...	Eleanors38	Apr 2013	#25
I'm on a iPod so I can't get the study but women are four times	upaloopa	Apr 2013	#31
Well, post it when you can. nt	Eleanors38	Apr 2013	#63
A number of studies.	EOTE	Apr 2013	#46
This is why depressed people shouldn't own guns.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#93
Or people in general.	EOTE	Apr 2013	#98
Precisely.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#94
How about the six people around you accidentally shot when you jump at shadows?	Robb	Apr 2013	#99
Even without any further information, I can tell you it's not improving your survival prospects.	2ndAmForComputers	Apr 2013	#195
There is a difference between a reasonable argument and a convincing argument.	ZombieHorde	Apr 2013	#3
Erm, not so fast	Benton D Struckcheon	Apr 2013	#8
I don't entirely disagree.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#12
Understand you'd still have the Navy, the Marines (part of the Navy),	Benton D Struckcheon	Apr 2013	#17
You may be right. Something to think about at least.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#23
But for Iraq, Bush did use the National Guard as though they were regular Army,	tblue37	Apr 2013	#77
Yeah, but that came later in the war, when they were having trouble replacing the ones who...	Benton D Struckcheon	Apr 2013	#78
No. National Guard units were present the entire war. (nt)	jeff47	Apr 2013	#86
Perhaps you should move back to reality.	jeff47	Apr 2013	#85
You need to reread my post, this time with comprehension. n/t	Benton D Struckcheon	Apr 2013	#106
No, I comprehended it. You apparently need to take your own advice.	jeff47	Apr 2013	#111
Happened after every war until Korea.	Benton D Struckcheon	Apr 2013	#152
Interesting post. I have never considered that angle. nt	Mojorabbit	Apr 2013	#91
When are gun threads going back to the gungeon?	NightWatcher	Apr 2013	#9
When you can pry them from their cold. dead, hands!	Fuddnik	Apr 2013	#10
When people stop committing mass murders with guns?	Rex	Apr 2013	#11
Should have happened long ago.	Lizzie Poppet	Apr 2013	#71
Yes. It has to do with the right of people to protect their homes.	Bucky	Apr 2013	#13
Your last sentence	tblue	Apr 2013	#132
The original intent is out dated but the	upaloopa	Apr 2013	#14
The bulk of scholarly opinion does not agree with your view...	Eleanors38	Apr 2013	#45
Damn good question, DanTex. Thanks. (nt)	Paladin	Apr 2013	#15
Hmmm. What percent of gun owners use them in crimes? (nt)	The Straight Story	Apr 2013	#16
No, what percent of crimes use guns?	morningfog	Apr 2013	#61
So in other words, you don't want to answer	The Straight Story	Apr 2013	#64
Still the wrong question. I gave you the better quesiton.	morningfog	Apr 2013	#75
Irrelevant to policy?	The Straight Story	Apr 2013	#83
A professional, standing army is exactly what the founding fathers wanted to avoid	davidn3600	Apr 2013	#18
That is true. But times have changed, I think.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#20
Dan, consider what your statement's consequences have had for our past, and for...	Eleanors38	Apr 2013	#53
I believe these militias were the only thing the Founders had in mind:	freshwest	Apr 2013	#90
I'd like to see the militia called to serve.	XRubicon	Apr 2013	#19
So what you are saying is that	oneshooter	Apr 2013	#44
Well, my read of the constitution says gun owners are part of a well regulated militia	XRubicon	Apr 2013	#58
Other way 'round.	Igel	Apr 2013	#73
I like blue cheese dressing on my word salad	XRubicon	Apr 2013	#76
Your flippant response does nothing to counter that very valid point.	Lizzie Poppet	Apr 2013	#146
Thanks for your opinion	XRubicon	Apr 2013	#148
Likewise.	Lizzie Poppet	Apr 2013	#191
Your first paragraph was full of misinformation.	former9thward	Apr 2013	#27
LOL. You need to do a little reading.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#30
Other than LOL you have no information.	former9thward	Apr 2013	#34
And neither do you. Except for a bunch of historically ignorant claims about the second amendment.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#35
What Justice agrees with you?	former9thward	Apr 2013	#36
Umm, all of them except for the right-wingers. Did you actually read the Stevens dissent?	DanTex	Apr 2013	#38
Umm fits you.	former9thward	Apr 2013	#41
So you're going to simply ignore the Stevens dissent?	DanTex	Apr 2013	#42
All 4 signed Beyer's dissent also.	former9thward	Apr 2013	#47
And all 4 very clearly stated that it's about militia participation, and it does not protect	DanTex	Apr 2013	#49
So you know more about what the nine justices think than Beyer does.	former9thward	Apr 2013	#54
Well, I simply read what they say.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#56
Read the Heller dissent. All nine agree that it's an individual right.	X_Digger	Apr 2013	#39
Wrong.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#40
No, Stevens is talking about the purpose. Are you asserting that he contradicted himself?	X_Digger	Apr 2013	#43
He's says that whether it is an individual right doesn't matter,	DanTex	Apr 2013	#48
Lol, he says it's an individual right, then talks about the level of permissible regulation.	X_Digger	Apr 2013	#52
...and he's saying that it has nothing to do with private civilian use of firearms.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#55
Which is about the purpose, yes.	X_Digger	Apr 2013	#57
sigh A right that has nothing to do with private civilian gun ownership.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#59
An individual right, yes.	X_Digger	Apr 2013	#67
The paragraph in question....	Jeff In Milwaukee	Apr 2013	#141
I've read it, all of it, thanks.	X_Digger	Apr 2013	#142
Having read it is nice	Jeff In Milwaukee	Apr 2013	#200
Ignoring his own words? That takes willful misapprehension. n/t	X_Digger	Apr 2013	#201
Short answer: Yes, there are many reasonable arguments in favor of the second amendment.	Demo_Chris	Apr 2013	#32
In other words, "because we're stuck with it".	DanTex	Apr 2013	#33
I said a great deal more than that...	Demo_Chris	Apr 2013	#37
If only there was some process by which to change the constitution	jeff47	Apr 2013	#89
Some people have the idea that insurection means engaging authority in pitched battles. nt	Demo_Chris	Apr 2013	#95
That would be the only reason you need guns to do so.	jeff47	Apr 2013	#110
It's an over age Sacred Cow on it's last legs whose usefulness died long ago.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Apr 2013	#50
I don't know about all that, but I'll keep the .38 by the bed, thank you. nt	Eleanors38	Apr 2013	#62
A glass of warm milk would probably serve you better.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Apr 2013	#66
I prefer mine cold, ice cream is even better!	Eleanors38	Apr 2013	#113
Well, ...	oldhippie	Apr 2013	#65
One of these things is not like the others! (From _Sesame Street_.)	tblue37	Apr 2013	#79
So why don't you lead the movement to repeal it?	hack89	Apr 2013	#72
We're stuck with a lot of things	OwnedByCats	Apr 2013	#74
No. Not at all.	Zoeisright	Apr 2013	#88
My view is that our energies are better spent	BainsBane	Apr 2013	#96
Every challange to the Second Amendment strengthens opponents of reasonable gun safety laws	Tom Rinaldo	Apr 2013	#100
yes, i believe i have a right to defend myself.	DeadEyeDyck	Apr 2013	#97
I wish the mods could move this to the gungeon.	Iggo	Apr 2013	#101
Damn Skippy! nt	MrScorpio	Apr 2013	#103
For hunting and self-defense.	TimberValley	Apr 2013	#104
We can't know how our political culture would have evolved without the Second Amendment	Tom Rinaldo	Apr 2013	#105
2nd Amendment	OLDMDDEM	Apr 2013	#107
IMHO: NO	CTyankee	Apr 2013	#114
Is the second ammendment a good thing? No. Hand me my black Sharpie marker. I'll take care of it.	hunter	Apr 2013	#117
I think it is	Yo_Mama	Apr 2013	#119
I support allowing firearm ownership though federal law, not as a "constitutional right"	NYC Liberal	Apr 2013	#122
Apples and oranges.	beevul	Apr 2013	#150
Whatever Analogy you want to make, gun ownership should be	NYC Liberal	Apr 2013	#178
Yeah, I got one for you...	cynatnite	Apr 2013	#125
Shoot him for 'coming near'?	tblue	Apr 2013	#130
Given how violent he was...YES! n/t	cynatnite	Apr 2013	#131
No he prolly wouldn't be in prison,	premium	Apr 2013	#139
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Apr 2013	#138
As it is written? No.	Politicub	Apr 2013	#151
Since you've answered your own question...	discntnt_irny_srcsm	Apr 2013	#153
The right to defend	Blue4Texas	Apr 2013	#155
Of course not. It's bullshit.	Uzair	Apr 2013	#157
You think it's obsolete.	Bake	Apr 2013	#158
Yes: we're an incredibly violent country, which is why people have guns	Recursion	Apr 2013	#172
Canada has a higher homicide rate than the US? LOL. You're slipping...	DanTex	Apr 2013	#173
D'oh	Recursion	Apr 2013	#174
So now the list contains zero countries that remotely resemble the US.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#175
No, that's who resembles the US.	Recursion	Apr 2013	#176
So you honestly think we are more similar to El Salvador than Canada or the UK?	DanTex	Apr 2013	#177
Entirely. This isn't some rhetorical trick; I'm totally serious.	Recursion	Apr 2013	#179
You continue to ignore the point that in other categories of violent crime, we much more closely	DanTex	Apr 2013	#180
Our life expectancy is closer to Mexico's than Canada's. And our Gini coefficient leaves me no doubt	Recursion	Apr 2013	#181
Mexico has rampant poverty, and per capita GDP of about $16K per year.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#183
Incidentally, about 100 days of our life expectancy is lost due to guns.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#184
That said, there are parts of the US that are like the social democracies	Recursion	Apr 2013	#182
Looks like old data. And you don't list any link, and there are no references.	baldguy	Apr 2013	#190
Dude, now you're just grasping at straws	Uzair	Apr 2013	#199

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