General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: What is the reason the GLBT Community doesn't support Bradley Manning? [View all]sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)would at least guarantee them the right to peacefully protest, was illegal once it was known that they were being tortured and abused and maybe even murdered.
The reason Bush got ANY support for that illegal war, and yes it WAS illegal because the 'sanctification' he got was BASED ON LIES so it was baseless and if we had the courage to prosecute our own war criminals, that 'sanctification' would have been declared null and void. Just because a crime is not prosecuted does NOT make it legal.
Manning took an oath and apparently, naively, believed that we were there to help the Iraqi people and to 'close Saddam's torture chambers' etc. etc. He acted on the lies he was told, yes, and he found out they were lies when he was told to shut up. No moral person can stand by and watch something so criminal, worse, he was asked to participate in the crime, and NOT try to do something about it. No MORAL person.
He became a whistle-blower when all else failed. We supposedly protect whistle blowers in this country.
I am having great difficulty with your argument which appears to be that if you can get away with a crime, it is legal. But if you report a crime and are ignored then realize that you are participating in a crime and try to do something about it realizing the 'laws' you once respected are a sham, you are worse than the criminals who have managed to get away with their horrific crimes and should be prosecuted.
You seem comfortable with acknowledging that Bush et al were criminals yet are trying to make the case that if you lie to Congress and succeed in not getting caught in those lies, there is some legitimacy to Congress' decision based on those lies. How could that be? No law based on lies ever has legitimacy. That's like saying that although something exists if you don't see it, it doesn't exist.
If a jury, eg, convicts someone based on false evidence, is that conviction legitmate? And as soon as it is revealed that their ruling was wrong because they were lied to, does that mean the conviction should hold because it was all done 'legitimately? Was the conviction ever right? Of course not, because the innocent person convicted was always innocent regardless of the conviction. The Iraq War was always illegal regardless of Congress's decision because it was based on pernicious lies. Deliberate lies.
Now, why, since we all now know without a doubt that Bush et al lied about the worst thing any elected official can lie about, are you not demanding that they be prosecuted? But are comfortable with Manning being prosecuted? Why the different standards? What THEY did was far, far worse to put it mildly, than what he did even if we agree about the legal aspect of it.
Manning did nothing wrong. In fact he did what moral people throughout history have done and have gone down in history as heroes, he tried to stop something that was very, very wrong. Too bad our elected officials didn't have his courage and he would never have been in Iraq.
Here's my opinion. Any law based on a foundation of lies is not a law, it is a sham and no one is expected to respect it, especially when they learn the truth.
Let me ask you something, do you think that people should follow orders they know to be wrong? Airc, that was clarified for us at Nuremberg when the 'I was just following orders' excuse was rejected. Your argument that because something is 'legal' means that a moral person should not oppose it no matter how wrong it is, was not accepted at Nuremberg either. And WE, the US, were the driving force behind establishing those rules back then. Which gave us so much moral authority.
NOW we appear to be contradicting our own claims that because what was done in Germany was legal, it did not excuse those who acted according to those laws. In fact, we made heroes of people who BROKE the law in Germany, and rightly so imo. Manning witnessed something he thought his country was opposed to. I thought so too, until relatively recently. Bush made torture legal. What should someone do then when faced with what they know is wrong? Be silent?