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Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
16. These programs are funded by congress and under congressional oversight.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:48 PM
Jun 2013

They are secret. So if President Obama was against them, he would need to go to Congress where during super secret meetings he could raise his objections. Unless there is a whistle blower present, we won't know. What difference would his change of mind make? He was not alone in creating this problem, and he can not by himself solve it.

The problem, as I see it, is that information the average citizen thinks should be private is not. The court that is supposed to protect citizens seems to exist only to provide cover for the government.

Perhaps the super secret FISA Court does protect out interest. How do we know. Clearly, oversight by Congress has completely failed. If we can't trust the Judicial branch to protect the interest of American citizens, the legislative branch to provide oversight (one of t heir enumerated powers), or the executive branch to refrain from pursuing every bit of data whether it has bearing on real national security or not, why should any of those "arguing about government surveillance would change their positions, pro or con? "

President Obama did not do this alone, and can not change it alone. The entire government has failed.

Those that support it, yes. rug Jun 2013 #1
I thought it was wrong under Bush, think it's wrong under Obama... BlueCheese Jun 2013 #2
...and I'll STILL make the point that Obama broke no law and was the best happy medium of a bad .... uponit7771 Jun 2013 #3
You will continue to argue for universal surveillance if Obama decides it's not wise? n/t Fumesucker Jun 2013 #6
I don't argue for "universal" (good try) surveillance NOW! I argue what Obama is doing is NOT what.. uponit7771 Jun 2013 #9
Surveilling everyone certainly could be argued as being universal surveillance Fumesucker Jun 2013 #13
I wih people would ask Congressmen what they thought of the laws that they passed Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #4
The law may be screwed up. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #12
Or to put it another way BlueStreak Jun 2013 #22
Sure RobertEarl Jun 2013 #5
Of course Marrah_G Jun 2013 #7
you know they would and they would act like they were against it the whole time! nt boilerbabe Jun 2013 #8
I know exactly what they would say. woo me with science Jun 2013 #10
Of course. They'd flip around in an instant, just as the Bushies used to do. /nt Marr Jun 2013 #11
Their 'principles' conform to whatever the prez believes so whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #14
I'm not even sure what "the surveillance program" is, so I can't say Recursion Jun 2013 #15
These programs are funded by congress and under congressional oversight. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2013 #16
I'm saying if Obama just changed his opinion and said so publicly Fumesucker Jun 2013 #19
what does changing his mind mean? It doesn't change the programs. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2013 #20
Please show me where in the Patriot Act or any other legislation BlueStreak Jun 2013 #24
Why change the subject? Agnosticsherbet Jun 2013 #30
You said the Congress mandated these programs and the President had no option. BlueStreak Jun 2013 #33
Who decides it's a vioaltion? Agnosticsherbet Jun 2013 #37
"If the law was followed, it wasn't UNCONSTITUTIONAL, was it?" BlueStreak Jun 2013 #41
My question was about those of us down here in the cheap seats, what our reaction would be Fumesucker Jun 2013 #25
I don't think so. It would not change mine. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2013 #27
You would consider Obama as being ill advised if he were to discontinue the surveillance? Fumesucker Jun 2013 #29
Without proof that he discontinued them it would mean nothing. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2013 #31
I would call for ProSense Jun 2013 #17
He came to the Tea Bagger Freaks Defense usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #18
Of course. The propeller stops spinning for an afternoon and cranks up in the other direction... Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #21
The supporters would do a 180. nt LittleBlue Jun 2013 #23
The best things here are ProSense Jun 2013 #26
Would you continue to argue for the surveillance programs in question if Obama disowned them? Fumesucker Jun 2013 #28
Their principles blow with the "My party, right or wrong" wind. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #32
If the USSC were to rule that these dragnet warrants are constitutional... OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #34
Do you think SCOTUS acted ethically and properly in Bush v Gore? Fumesucker Jun 2013 #35
A curious dodge... OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #36
You never answered my original question either Fumesucker Jun 2013 #38
Remember the run up to ACA? JoeyT Jun 2013 #39
In a hot flash. Le Taz Hot Jun 2013 #40
Those who LWolf Jun 2013 #42
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