I support shall-issue CCW with a comprehensive training requirement (Reply #2)

In the discussion thread: New Concealed Carry poll [View all]

Mon Jun 17, 2013, 07:08 PM

petronius (26,408 posts)

2. I support shall-issue CCW with a comprehensive training requirement

That requirement should address practical skills in firearms-handling, the legal ramifications of self-defense in all forms, and conflict management/avoidance techniques. I also think there should be no arbitrary or excessive fees to create a barrier to receiving a permit, nor any other requirements intended to discourage applicants - the regulation should be stringent but focused solely on valid questions of qualification...

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293 replies	Author	Time	Post
New Concealed Carry poll [View all]	BainsBane	Jun 2013	OP
I apologize for the problems in the first poll	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#1
I live in a "town" of 59,000	krispos42	Jun 2013	#12
Yeah, it is far more complicated that I realized	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#19
I support shall-issue CCW with a comprehensive training requirement	petronius	Jun 2013	#2
So I would put that as option 3	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#3
Sounds a lot like the Texas model.	oneshooter	Jun 2013	#16
Sure does, doesn't it?	X_Digger	Jun 2013	#22
Thanks for the link - yes, the descriptions of the Texas system that	petronius	Jun 2013	#29
Except that in Texas it's okay to use that concealed gun to shoot a purse snatcher in the back nt	geek tragedy	Jun 2013	#80
Only at night. Can't do it in daylight.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#88
Why is human life so much less valuable at night in Texas? nt	geek tragedy	Jun 2013	#119
I don't know why the legislators wrote the law that way. N/T	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#124
What you have described	Jenoch	Jun 2013	#115
To me, what you say is the best solution. n/t	RKP5637	Jun 2013	#202
From swamp to city	sarisataka	Jun 2013	#4
I guess I don't know what to choose.	NutmegYankee	Jun 2013	#5
Typically these are folk who keep guns on their person	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#6
Conn. definently has a different law than most states	NutmegYankee	Jun 2013	#7
They need to separate the NRA from this crap.	LiberalFighter	Jun 2013	#128
It's just a standard.	NutmegYankee	Jun 2013	#134
question. why ask this question at all? is there some new fear about individuals and CC?	galileoreloaded	Jun 2013	#8
Ask Trayvon Martin	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#9
ask him what? whats the question? nt	galileoreloaded	Jun 2013	#10
What he thinks about concealed carry	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#11
Some of those statements are bogus.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#18
Nice edit	pintobean	Jun 2013	#13
First I thought you had selected it as a joke.	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#17
No, not literally. nt	pintobean	Jun 2013	#20
right, another writing error	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#21
In the end, there are more of us here who are against this plague of guns than for them	DainBramaged	Jun 2013	#14
duck?	snooper2	Jun 2013	#15
The key is to spot the attack coming and be ready.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#23
That's not what happens	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#27
I am talking about common robbery criminals, not deliberate assassins.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#65
CCwers don't commit drive bys?	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#76
You left out something critical.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#85
I'll admit I'm no black belt in google-fu,	Bazinga	Jun 2013	#132
You are walking down city street with your gun, how do you recognize "threat?"	Hoyt	Jun 2013	#28
I thought that was pretty well covered in GSC's post.	Bazinga	Jun 2013	#33
No wouldn't expect them to be honest about their need to tote and all.	Hoyt	Jun 2013	#34
Ha..	Pelican	Jun 2013	#45
Run!	Bazinga	Jun 2013	#30
Rule 6	sarisataka	Jun 2013	#32
The old "dodge and shoot" technique recommended in gungeon back before gun nuts started going, well,	Hoyt	Jun 2013	#36
I believe retreat should not be required by law	sarisataka	Jun 2013	#38
I think it should be required, but especially not endorse stand your ground BS.	Hoyt	Jun 2013	#43
Precisely: tactical decisions should belong to the individual.	Lizzie Poppet	Jun 2013	#92
"tactical decisions"	Progressive dog	Jun 2013	#204
not if they look anything like the guy in the blue shirt in response #233 by BainsBane!	CTyankee	Jun 2013	#249
If I saw any of those pictured	sarisataka	Jun 2013	#255
Better than throwing a can of beans at them.	rl6214	Jun 2013	#48
It works for me, but you gun lovers don't get to go bang bang.	Hoyt	Jun 2013	#50
Sure it does, then you will swoop in, disarm the gun owner	rl6214	Jun 2013	#53
Your post indicates why mental health care is part of solution.	Hoyt	Jun 2013	#55
Hey, I'm not the one that said I could do that...	rl6214	Jun 2013	#73
You should have written it down clearer -- didn't say I "could" do that, I said I "did it"	Hoyt	Jun 2013	#81
You need a remedial reading course. Re read post 53	rl6214	Jun 2013	#114
+1000	CokeMachine	Jun 2013	#137
Universal	TheKentuckian	Jun 2013	#24
How many free kills	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#25
Statistically, that would be a terrible neighborhood....	Pelican	Jun 2013	#46
That's per gunner	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#49
There's no understanding the depths of that paragraph....	Pelican	Jun 2013	#52
No	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#54
Do you have a good example...	Pelican	Jun 2013	#56
Well, no	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#57
Then why did you say it?	Pelican	Jun 2013	#58
Partly irony	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#59
Do you believe that someone who is willing to commit homicide will be deterred...	Pelican	Jun 2013	#63
Yes	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#75
The logical gymnastics you have to perform are amazing...	Pelican	Jun 2013	#77
It's called examples	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#78
508 murders committed by CC holders	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#79
Take a closer look. VPC is lying.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#86
There is a difference between...	Pelican	Jun 2013	#89
emotional blackmail	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#94
As for the racial element	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#60
I assume you mean "stand your ground", not "stand your group".	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#66
It's a license to kill people of color	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#68
in Florida, most	gejohnston	Jun 2013	#108
Stand your ground has been evoked by white men who have killed people of color	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#194
and they went to prison most of the time.	gejohnston	Jun 2013	#200
like the guy in Texas acquitted for killing a woman	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#215
newspaper accounts unreliable	gejohnston	Jun 2013	#219
My source is the same GAO report that Statfor cited	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#231
Actually, I did read it.	gejohnston	Jun 2013	#234
ha ha, maybe this is the OP	newmember	Jun 2013	#135
Most gun control comes from the desire of the ruling white elites to not have armed black folk	ceonupe	Jun 2013	#160
Think does NOT mean fantasize.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#69
Wow! Just Wow!	dumbcat	Jun 2013	#98
Check out post #57...	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#103
lol	newmember	Jun 2013	#121
"...Presumably the gunners would conceal their guns to go into neighborhoods like mine	Jenoch	Jun 2013	#152
Quit it -- you'll mess up her mellow!!	CokeMachine	Jun 2013	#188
I don't know, but I would love to hear	ZombieHorde	Jun 2013	#26
I support broadening concealed carry rights	rrneck	Jun 2013	#35
Someone else's words	sarisataka	Jun 2013	#61
True that. nt	rrneck	Jun 2013	#74
I like 3 but I voted for 5.	Bazinga	Jun 2013	#31
I'd like to see equal training provided by those not steeped in guns.	Hoyt	Jun 2013	#37
Not entirely sure I follow.	Bazinga	Jun 2013	#39
Nope, I want equal time for someone who doesn't worship/accept gun culture BS.	Hoyt	Jun 2013	#44
Still not clear.	Bazinga	Jun 2013	#47
Congress, and everything having to do with guns and gun policy.	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#62
well that's more clear	Bazinga	Jun 2013	#136
How did we guess that you'd be for concealed carry?	DainBramaged	Jun 2013	#41
Life was good in the 18th Century when there were very few laws.	Nimajneb Nilknarf	Jun 2013	#40
Now the bad people wield power	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#42
I'm less concerned with the overtly bad than with the morally misguided who believe they are good.	Nimajneb Nilknarf	Jun 2013	#64
They have killed far more	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#67
To call that claim hyperbolic would be such an understatement, I don't have an adjective for it.	Nimajneb Nilknarf	Jun 2013	#71
Naaah, the American Automobile Association has killed more.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#104
The murder rate was much higher.	Warren Stupidity	Jun 2013	#70
Indeed it was, and even higher in many parts of Europe.	Nimajneb Nilknarf	Jun 2013	#72
Shall issue (my vote) & more training. And less hatred in the world.	Eleanors38	Jun 2013	#51
Now that IL has been shown the error of their ways,	HolyMoley	Jun 2013	#82
I know. Imagine Illinoisans thinking their residents had a right to live	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#83
The right to live includes the right to self-defense.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#87
Jesus, quit the dishonest bullshit	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#90
When someone threatens my life, it doesn't matter how much is in my wallet.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#99
Why does Houston (w/'shall-issue' CCW) have 1/2 the murder rate of 'no-issue' Chicago?	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#107
Look up the FBI statistics for El Paso	gejohnston	Jun 2013	#109
Talk about dishonest bullshit	pintobean	Jun 2013	#111
It wouldn't occur to a genius like you	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#91
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#101
Learn something	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#120
Women aren't the only ones killed.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#125
LOL, only you and your imagination could hand-wave the facts away so creatively. snort	X_Digger	Jun 2013	#112
Wake up	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#118
So in your fevered imagination, it's CHL holders in TX crossing the MX border to kill women?!? LOL!!	X_Digger	Jun 2013	#122
No	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#123
Lol, get your story straight (if you can)..	X_Digger	Jun 2013	#126
Your dishonestly is repulsive	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#127
I'm laughing at your fevered imagination- that CHL holders kill undocumented women in the US..	X_Digger	Jun 2013	#129
Everything she's posted here is nothing but	premium	Jun 2013	#131
I had though just overly hyperbolic before this thread..	X_Digger	Jun 2013	#138
From my observations	pintobean	Jun 2013	#140
That's good, then. n/t	X_Digger	Jun 2013	#141
Post removed	Post removed	Jun 2013	#142
I tend to take threats to my life rather personally	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#187
If you have had threats made to you then you need to report them	oneshooter	Jun 2013	#209
You also take factual accuracy rather casually:	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#213
The Chicago homicide rate for 2013 is significantly down at 34% at the end of May.	tammywammy	Jun 2013	#218
Granted- but it's still double that of 'shall-issue' Houston.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#224
Separate topic	tammywammy	Jun 2013	#225
This year	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#230
Well, good for them- their murder rate is now only about 1.5x that of Houston's.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#240
Well, then we should expect the homicide rate in Chicago	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#242
It's possible- after all, the murder rate in St. Paul fell after 'shall-issue' went into effect.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#260
I wonder what keeps the Japanese from murdering each other?	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#243
Possibly their extremely high suicide rate, i.e., they're taking it out on themselves	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#257
Post removed	Post removed	Jun 2013	#212
I'm a big supporter of CC,	premium	Jun 2013	#84
I agree with your "take" on " may issue".	roamer65	Jun 2013	#145
Pass	MadrasT	Jun 2013	#93
38,000 homicides a year	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#95
Of which 2/3rds of those are suicides,	premium	Jun 2013	#96
I'm sure you can find a way to discount the rest of those deaths too	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#97
I'm not trying to discount anything,	premium	Jun 2013	#100
On your other thread	Jenoch	Jun 2013	#151
LOL, you people always tend to add the suicide numbers in. To be misleading I assume. n-t	Logical	Jun 2013	#147
That's really funny	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#148
He's not laughing about the suicides	pintobean	Jun 2013	#149
Cool story, bro	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#150
True story, sis	pintobean	Jun 2013	#153
Indisputable proof	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#156
I didn't claim cause and effect	pintobean	Jun 2013	#157
Right, you just thought I was stupid enough to believe the implication	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#158
I don't think you're stupid, and I'm not a liar.	pintobean	Jun 2013	#159
When disproving the claim that liberalized ccw causes an increase in crime,	Bazinga	Jun 2013	#199
I don't care about property crime	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#214
"I have seen no evidence provided by anyone." Here you are-the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports:	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#223
You do understand that correlation in and of itself is not proof?	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#236
I'm sorry but you're wrong again.	Bazinga	Jun 2013	#229
Someone just did make that claim	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#237
I did not. I demonstrated that your assertions that "CCW increases homicide" is wrong.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#239
They are not demonstrably wrong	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#241
'Shall-issue' passed in Minnesota, and the murder rate did not increase.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#259
When I have a chance I will search academic databases	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#244
What's wrong with the FBI's "Crime in The United States" reports?	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#258
You mean you did not have evidence at hand when you made your original claim?	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#261
I have read reports to that effect	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#281
You needn't bother- I've already done it, and provided links to same	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#282
how cynical	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#287
I am in favor of universal background checks. Search my posts.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#292
You can stop pretending to look for that non-existant evidence now.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#279
remdi95	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#280
Oh, you mean pintobean's post	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#217
That's twice	pintobean	Jun 2013	#228
Your pal told me your post was evidence	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#235
It's been obvious from day one	pintobean	Jun 2013	#245
Oh, just quit whining	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#246
That made me lol.	pintobean	Jun 2013	#247
If you must know	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#251
That should be good for a laugh for anyone	pintobean	Jun 2013	#253
Oh the transparency page	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#256
The difference between "may" issue and "shall issue"	gejohnston	Jun 2013	#203
I see that you needed to go to Bansalot for help.	oneshooter	Jun 2013	#102
"My poll wasn't going the way I wanted, plz halp!" n/t	Decoy of Fenris	Jun 2013	#105
Even with their help	CokeMachine	Jun 2013	#110
I don't think that her cohorts in Castle Bansalot	premium	Jun 2013	#113
That just makes the poll totally useless.	pintobean	Jun 2013	#106
A link to this poll has been posted in the Gungeon. Happy now? (nt)	Paladin	Jun 2013	#116
Bwahaha!	X_Digger	Jun 2013	#117
Thanks for the link!!	CokeMachine	Jun 2013	#130
Hey, at least we all seem to agree "May Issue" sucks	Recursion	Jun 2013	#133
Just for the record...	discntnt_irny_srcsm	Jun 2013	#139
It seems to me that "calling out the troops" from Castle Bansalot didn't help.	oneshooter	Jun 2013	#143
So far, she's gotten one reply,	premium	Jun 2013	#144
"bansalot"	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#166
they gotta give this up. They aren't fooling anyone...	CTyankee	Jun 2013	#207
Truth is irrelevant to them	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#221
Did you see the original of that post?	X_Digger	Jun 2013	#146
For posterity	aikoaiko	Jun 2013	#154
Lol, you expecting an imminent self-delete, too? Glad I wasn't the only one. n/t	X_Digger	Jun 2013	#155
So how do you figure you're side is winning	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#164
In "Concealed carry" vs "No concealed carry", CC is winning, so there's that.	Decoy of Fenris	Jun 2013	#165
no	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#168
112 for CC, 91 against.	Decoy of Fenris	Jun 2013	#170
Oh, so lesser concealed carry that exists now	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#172
Sorry, didn't see a "Lesser concealed" option. Or anyone voting for it.	Decoy of Fenris	Jun 2013	#173
Number 2?	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#176
Nope.	Decoy of Fenris	Jun 2013	#177
fine. That's a good option. Let's enforce it.	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#179
I'd agree to that. Our common ground is far more common than you think, Bains.	Decoy of Fenris	Jun 2013	#181
That would be awesome!	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#182
As long as you are talking about very careful testing	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#183
I wouldn't be opposed to that, with a provision;	Decoy of Fenris	Jun 2013	#185
a statewide basis is fine	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#186
Though number 2	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#184
Well it isn't going the way she wanted even after soliciting votes	aikoaiko	Jun 2013	#167
well, you recruited all kinds of members	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#169
I recruited nobody.	aikoaiko	Jun 2013	#205
Probably. n/t	Decoy of Fenris	Jun 2013	#171
the cognitive dissonance has already kicked in on the pro gun violence side	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#174
Why don't you just delete again? It'll spare you lots of heartache. :) n/t	Decoy of Fenris	Jun 2013	#175
So it is a pissing contest?	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#178
Well, it was, when you were "winning". Suddenly now it's not? n/t	Decoy of Fenris	Jun 2013	#180
Amazing	pintobean	Jun 2013	#201
guilty	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#216
#2 is Texas. they limit CC to trained and tested folks.	aikoaiko	Jun 2013	#206
read downthread	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#220
Amazingly, I created the various options to try to give people	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#222
your opponents just can't see that, but it is very clear.	CTyankee	Jun 2013	#250
Some people never seem to get beyond	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#254
Wow, your math really sucks, dude.	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#162
bear with me on this post please	virginia mountainman	Jun 2013	#161
Oh, a 45	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#163
If I can't carry my claymore openly, why should you get to hide your gun? n/t	Scootaloo	Jun 2013	#189
Hey, excellent point	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#190
FWIW - Swords were/should be definitely covered...	jmg257	Jun 2013	#210
Probably because one needs skill and physical condition to use a sword	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#226
Since you don't shoot, how would you know that to be fact.	oneshooter	Jun 2013	#227
Isn't that the point of the new snazzy weapons?	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#232
This is real competition shooting. what you showed is crap.	oneshooter	Jun 2013	#252
For example	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#233
Holy shit! Look at these guys!!!	CTyankee	Jun 2013	#248
Since you probably didn't bother to look at my post#252.	oneshooter	Jun 2013	#290
Are you calling senior citizens "indolent slob"s?	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2013	#262
I'm glad your wife is safe	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#263
If you can conceal it, why not.	oneshooter	Jun 2013	#211
Not a Gun owner.	Notafraidtoo	Jun 2013	#191
Interesting poll results.	beevul	Jun 2013	#192
No, they aren't	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#193
Interesting group of "DUers" voting yes in this.	DanTex	Jun 2013	#195
Interesting, isn't it?	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#196
Well, it is somewhat of on illustration of an "intensity gap" on guns.	DanTex	Jun 2013	#197
I can't think of any	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#198
I really don't know why they have such a burning desire to "prove" that they are good Dems.	CTyankee	Jun 2013	#208
Seriously	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#238
Ah, now we gave it: Calling in MIRT to expunge those with whom you disagree.	Eleanors38	Jun 2013	#271
Sigh	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#272
Ho-hum	Eleanors38	Jun 2013	#273
Democratic Party gun policy	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#276
I have seen little to indicate you are liberal or progressive.	Eleanors38	Jun 2013	#277
Really?	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#278
Really.	Eleanors38	Jun 2013	#283
Your position on this issue is not in line with Democrats	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#284
More attacks, more animosity, more untruths...	Eleanors38	Jun 2013	#286
Find one post in which I have ever advocated for banning all guns	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#289
I have to wonder	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#285
The calls went out, the trolls heeded the calls, no poll to small to sway	DainBramaged	Jun 2013	#291
Your 2nd and 3rd options	Jenoch	Jun 2013	#264
Too late to change now	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#265
"...some care about training and testing and background checks as a prerequisite."	Jenoch	Jun 2013	#266
excuse me, I live in that state "without a city"	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#267
I am trying to understand	Jenoch	Jun 2013	#268
because I believe much of the divide on guns is between urban and rural/suburban	BainsBane	Jun 2013	#269
How is disarming people	Jenoch	Jun 2013	#270
Complete disarmament and repealing the 2nd is extremely fringe.	Socal31	Jun 2013	#274
I told her not to	pintobean	Jun 2013	#275
Yes, it's a temper tantrum.	NaturalHigh	Jun 2013	#288
Reminds me of the Caucasian-Canadian that purported to speak for African-Americans...	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2013	#293

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